What will governments do next to manipulate Bitcoin?

FanEagle

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on July 01, 2020, 01:39:24 PM

Do you think they could have a branch on government to do something about crypto or is it like too small to care? I mean they have bunch of branches for everything, having one for crypto could be different and with all the tax they could get from tracking every single person and asking for tax could mean that it would be a government branch that actually profits as well and not cost money. If they do something like that, it could both manipulate bitcoin but also it could help you out as well.

So, would you prefer something that allows governments to manipulate bitcoin but can't control it (decentralized currency after all) but that would help you too, or would you want government to be out of it all together even if that means it would hurt you? I am not entirely sure but the reason why bitcoin was created was a bit of resistance towards current system so I would say latter would be better.

Well, the only method I can think of to actually make any sort of manipulation that they could even make a profit from is actually that doesn't require moves with money to manipulate, sure they need money for the profit part but the manipulation doesn't require any money at all.

If you are a big nation, just tell the world that you are considering banning bitcoin all together, and even have a public announcement that you want to meet other big world leaders on potentially banning or at least limiting very much with full government knowledge (like KYC but harsher) to even own bitcoins, that will drop the price a lot. Buy as many bitcoins as you can as government when the price is that low and continue to be harsh.

After a while when you have enough, tell everyone you changed your minds and you will allow bitcoiners to exist and also will support them, that will increase the price a lot. You can sell after this stage.

carlisle1

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Quote from: sunsilk on May 31, 2020, 05:08:44 AM

Quote from: carlisle1 on May 30, 2020, 09:52:26 AM

Quote from: sunsilk on May 30, 2020, 04:59:41 AM

They have already figure it out that bitcoin is working for their citizens so it's now time to take advantage of that use. They won't ban bitcoin, as a matter of fact only few countries did banned it because they don't understand it. The only thing they know about bitcoin is it's the money of criminals and illegal transactions but they don't see the usefulness of it.

looks like the government now taking their piece of cake?but what government would not want to gain?looks how much money is now inside this market?the amount that inside crypto is enough to feed the whole 3rd world country.

As if that's the main agenda of the governments that want to get inside to bitcoin. They're in it because there's money and it doesn't matter to them if it's for the sake of their people or for personal interest, it's the reality which we knew about governments.

have i said about this? i have mentioned about the amount inside Crypto is enough to feed a third world country thats why they are eager to enter inside and take their piece of cake.
That is my clear statement and nothing else about what you are saying.

Quote from: sunsilk on May 31, 2020, 05:08:44 AM

Quote from: carlisle1 on May 30, 2020, 09:52:26 AM

Quote

How much money does it require for them to manipulate bitcoin? I don't think that they'll go with that game but instead take the advantage and pay attention to their citizens that's making money out of it and tax them because it's volatile for them to play bitcoin's game of manipulation.

actually what OP is saying is those government is making issues to shaken the market and not manipulating with Big budget.

That's the point and do you think they can shake or manipulate the market without anything inside their pockets? You can't shake the entire bitcoin market or any market without any huge fund involved.

They need no money in pocket to manipulate the market and that is what they wanted to prove,they are the authority and everything is possible in their part though It is hard to do it inside crypto.

shoreno

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Quote from: Bezobraznike on July 02, 2020, 11:30:11 PM

Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 01, 2020, 02:02:17 PM

^ Definitely right, the decentralized asset of bitcoin it is impossible to the government manipulated bitcoin. But there are countries that classified as a bitcoin is fully restricted to their country but do you think this manipulation will not able to people accessing bitcoin? They can use a VPN if they want, even Trump nothing has to do in using bitcoin in the US. He wants to manipulate bitcoin and put it a tax. Nevertheless, I like the idea of other countries that trying to establish a legal framework for cryptocurrencies even though they know that this probably threaten when it comes as an investment asset.

DoublerHunter some countries are financially strong and with a lot of money they can try to manipulate with crypto-market.
I don't know about manipulations from technical side, but if county is equipped and have good infrastructure with strong
computers maybe they can try to make some problems. I believe some countries tried this already, but if we are still alive and
decentralized probably they couldn't do much, and crypto-currencies are getting stronger, I believe it will be harder for them
to manipulate with crypto-markets in the future, or even impossible.

if they are rich enough why would they care for such bitcoin but even some poor or rich country do accept bitcoins too .

manipulation in a technincal side is more threatening than compare to a normal manipulation because price were only being affected but if its on a techy side they can destroy bitcoin literally making it obsolette . its hard to manipulate a market if there are many anti manipulators because the flow of the transactions will be the same or wont favor to the manipulator

Bezobraznike

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 01, 2020, 02:02:17 PM

^ Definitely right, the decentralized asset of bitcoin it is impossible to the government manipulated bitcoin. But there are countries that classified as a bitcoin is fully restricted to their country but do you think this manipulation will not able to people accessing bitcoin? They can use a VPN if they want, even Trump nothing has to do in using bitcoin in the US. He wants to manipulate bitcoin and put it a tax. Nevertheless, I like the idea of other countries that trying to establish a legal framework for cryptocurrencies even though they know that this probably threaten when it comes as an investment asset.

DoublerHunter some countries are financially strong and with a lot of money they can try to manipulate with crypto-market.
I don't know about manipulations from technical side, but if county is equipped and have good infrastructure with strong
computers maybe they can try to make some problems. I believe some countries tried this already, but if we are still alive and
decentralized probably they couldn't do much, and crypto-currencies are getting stronger, I believe it will be harder for them
to manipulate with crypto-markets in the future, or even impossible.

DoublerHunter

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^ Definitely right, the decentralized asset of bitcoin it is impossible to the government manipulated bitcoin. But there are countries that classified as a bitcoin is fully restricted to their country but do you think this manipulation will not able to people accessing bitcoin? They can use a VPN if they want, even Trump nothing has to do in using bitcoin in the US. He wants to manipulate bitcoin and put it a tax. Nevertheless, I like the idea of other countries that trying to establish a legal framework for cryptocurrencies even though they know that this probably threaten when it comes as an investment asset.

RealMalatesta

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Do you think they could have a branch on government to do something about crypto or is it like too small to care? I mean they have bunch of branches for everything, having one for crypto could be different and with all the tax they could get from tracking every single person and asking for tax could mean that it would be a government branch that actually profits as well and not cost money. If they do something like that, it could both manipulate bitcoin but also it could help you out as well.

So, would you prefer something that allows governments to manipulate bitcoin but can't control it (decentralized currency after all) but that would help you too, or would you want government to be out of it all together even if that means it would hurt you? I am not entirely sure but the reason why bitcoin was created was a bit of resistance towards current system so I would say latter would be better.

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Quote from: Nazmul012 on June 30, 2020, 08:46:54 PM

In my opinion, governments already have done everything that they could against bitcoin. So They don't have any way to down bitcoin again. Now if they are really interested about bitcoin & want to do something, then that will "Remove A Ban On Bitcoin & promote it". And That will be a good sign for bitcoin. Without this, they don't have anything to do

Could you specify what exactly have governments done against Bitcoin and which governments? When we talk like this I like to hear some concrete argumentes.
To my opinion all these stories about governments all around the world that are against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are exaggerated and almost sound like a witch hunt. Like Bitcoin users like to play victims and rebells but in fact the whole story about governments and Bitcoin could be put in.one word - regulation.

michellee

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Quote from: Nazmul012 on June 30, 2020, 08:46:54 PM

In my opinion, governments already have done everything that they could against bitcoin. So They don't have any way to down bitcoin again. Now if they are really interested about bitcoin & want to do something, then that will "Remove A Ban On Bitcoin & promote it". And That will be a good sign for bitcoin. Without this, they don't have anything to do

Or they are trying to search another way to manipulate bitcoin or spreads about the fake news related to bitcoin. We don't know what they already did because they will not tell the public, and they are using a secret way, which makes us guess. If they don't do anything and don't spread the negative side of bitcoin, I think that will be a good thing for bitcoin because that means bitcoin can spread among the people can use bitcoin without any worry of the government.

Janation

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Quote from: semobo on June 17, 2020, 03:44:24 PM

Governments are not trying to manipulate the prices, they simply don't want it to be existed because they are already making money so they have no reason to dump bitcoin after so much efforts to manipulate it, so this is done by the individuals with different strategies and some governments also helping those whales for shares in returns In my opinion.

I don't know what are they thinking about cryptocurrencies.

Let's just use India for example. India is one of those countries that Bitcoin is now getting better. But their government is having thoughts about it. Now that they unbanned it, they are thinking to ban it again. We have no information about it now but let's hope they will reconsider that plan.

Nazmul012

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In my opinion, governments already have done everything that they could against bitcoin. So They don't have any way to down bitcoin again. Now if they are really interested about bitcoin & want to do something, then that will "Remove A Ban On Bitcoin & promote it". And That will be a good sign for bitcoin. Without this, they don't have anything to do

justdimin

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I doubt they are doing anything anymore. They probably gave up after they realized people couldnt care any less about what governments think.

There was a lot of bans and illegal laws and so forth whatever made when bitcoin first started because it was used on dark nets to buy drugs and all that, however people still continued, you can't stop people from using bitcoins at all. You can't trace a bitcoin to a person as long as they never shared their wallet address on a public place or bought it with KYC neither.

So, they wanted to destroy bitcoin but realized there is no way, so they joined. Nowadays I think governments are not after destroying bitcoin but they are after getting a piece of their own pie from it and make a profit of your profit as well.

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Quote from: serjent05 on June 17, 2020, 03:53:43 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on June 11, 2020, 03:23:34 PM

serjent05

In fact, the jurisdiction of the United States extends to all countries (with the exception of rogue states such as Cuba, NK, etc.)

With the "exception" contradicts your claim of "all countries". Anyway, I think influence is much better word than Jurisdiction. Each country have their own law, it maybe greatly influence by the US but the decision still belongs to that country. Us cannot decide for my country on what to do or not. They may influence but the power to decide is still in my country. Except if the case is related to US citizen and the crimes is done on the USA and the criminal is hiding here. Same goes with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.

These countries are "exotic" and I do not think that anyone seriously considers them as suitable for living.
As for sovereignty and jurisdictions, you are formally right, but in fact the United States controls global finances and those who fall under US sanctions are deprived of the opportunity to work with other countries since other countries are afraid of the corresponding sanctions.

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Quote from: KTChampions on June 11, 2020, 03:23:34 PM

serjent05

In fact, the jurisdiction of the United States extends to all countries (with the exception of rogue states such as Cuba, NK, etc.)

With the "exception" contradicts your claim of "all countries". Anyway, I think influence is much better word than Jurisdiction. Each country have their own law, it maybe greatly influence by the US but the decision still belongs to that country. Us cannot decide for my country on what to do or not. They may influence but the power to decide is still in my country. Except if the case is related to US citizen and the crimes is done on the USA and the criminal is hiding here. Same goes with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.

semobo

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Governments are not trying to manipulate the prices, they simply don't want it to be existed because they are already making money so they have no reason to dump bitcoin after so much efforts to manipulate it, so this is done by the individuals with different strategies and some governments also helping those whales for shares in returns In my opinion.

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Quote from: ene1980 on June 10, 2020, 02:41:36 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on June 09, 2020, 05:15:56 PM

The only government that can manipulate bitcoin is the US government

But I see no reason to believe that they are doing this because there is no need for it. Bitcoin has actually been entered into the legal field - everywhere it requires KYC, exchanges track suspicious transactions, etc. Bitcoin does not represent anything dangerous for the government.

If the US government wanted to restrict bitcoin they could have already done that as it is over 11 years now and the authorities started confiscating bitcoin from criminals for a long time and selling them at auctions. When it comes to exchanges enforcing KYC is because they do not want to get into trouble from the authorities if some hacked coins are cashed using their exchanges.

I think that some meanings of word manipulation are being mixed
To manipulate something doesn't necessary mean to control, restrict or to ban. So in this context I don't think that US government has any of such intentions towards Bitcoin. It's really hard to figure out where such conclusions come from.
KYC is obligation by the law in most countries for all services that include any financial mean so cryptocurrencies are obviously not exception. But I don't understand why are people so afraid of it, it's actually for their own protection.

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Quote from: KTChampions on June 11, 2020, 03:23:34 PM

To manipulate does not mean to control. I think you will agree that the price of bitcoin depends very much on the actions of the US government (ban or vice versa recognition as a reserve currency)?

Exactly that, to manipulate doesn't mean to control it! Price will always depend on actions from masses or strong players, and US government is a strong player here. We can say the same thing for China, Russia, or any other country that has means and ways to do what they want. In that way every market is vulnerable, and can be manipulated with, with some regulations or a lot of money, either way who want's to shake the market can do that, but of course with knowledge and good organization, I don't think it's a one man job.

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Quote from: Lucius on May 29, 2020, 05:57:05 AM

Personally, it does not seem to me that governments are too interested in BTC at the moment, for the simple reason that it is a very small market in terms of value.

The governments as a whole probably aren't but certain influential people in those governments are interested, I'm sure of it!

If your average middle class worker thinks Bitcoin is a fast and easy way to make some money those high tollers also know it and they have the means to make it happen. They can change laws get their rich friends to invest and they can create FUD if they want to.

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serjent05

In fact, the jurisdiction of the United States extends to all countries (with the exception of rogue states such as Cuba, NK, etc.)

ene1980

The conjuncture is always changing. If you know, once cocaine was considered a common medicine and could be bought at a pharmacy.

adzino

To manipulate does not mean to control. I think you will agree that the price of bitcoin depends very much on the actions of the US government (ban or vice versa recognition as a reserve currency)?

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If they could somehow gather bitcoin by using a stablecoin that could be very scary. Think about it they could print as much stablecoin as they want, there is really no limit to it, they could just back it up with the people who buy it as well so it would be free for them and cause zero money to do that as long as people do end up buying their stablecoin and we all know people would buy it instantly, we have USDT run by a shady Bahama bank using scammy company and we already bought billions of it, if USA government does a stablecoin I can see easily 50 billion stablecoin sold.

And the government could use that 50 billion to buy bitcoin anytime it drops, they could simple crash the market and buy themselves as well and keep it low and create panic and just hoard millions of bitcoins without spending a single dollar.

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Quote from: adzino on June 10, 2020, 03:40:48 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on June 09, 2020, 05:15:56 PM

The only government that can manipulate bitcoin is the US government

But I see no reason to believe that they are doing this because there is no need for it. Bitcoin has actually been entered into the legal field - everywhere it requires KYC, exchanges track suspicious transactions, etc. Bitcoin does not represent anything dangerous for the government.

Like why do you think the US government can manipulate bitcoin? It is a decentralized network and coin. No one can control it. Stop listening to those stupid conspiracies and educated yourself

.
Yeah, exchanges implements the KYC function so that their user database remains clean.

They could, like what OP says they can make a fake regulation. As we all know, bitcoin price is pure based on supply and demand but we have to thinking the people who has bitcoin will always try to buy and sell based on the new or information, that is fundamental factor I guess.

I'm still remember when there a country who try to adopt/accept bitcoin then we will see the increasing price and otherwise when we get a bad information like the country A stated that bitcoin is illegal and etc. That is the factor why bitcoin price is volatile and hard to believe that bitcoin's price will remain stable although there are a lot of bitcoin future popping up.

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