What would a new coin need to overtake bitcoin - page 2.

g4c

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Quote from: ashapasa on March 15, 2014, 12:01:00 PM

...money is ultimately trust, if a powerful country adopts a cryptocurrency it will easily rival bitcoin.

I agree.

Quote from: ashapasa on March 15, 2014, 12:01:00 PM

Government exists because there is a need for it, it brings law and order, stability and a sense of certainty.

This is true, but there is an important aspect that you have fallen short with:

Governments throughout history, attempted and currently running; they use the strategy of creating disorder before stepping in to restore order (at the request of a majority of the players, how poetic).

Don't get me wrong, No one government is an immune player, it's an active game, a game that is deeper than many can imagine.

g4c

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Quote from: Brangdon on March 15, 2014, 11:22:32 AM

I don't follow. If some miners switch to a new coin, then the Bitcoin difficulty will drop and the remaining miners will make more coin. As long as the value of bitcoin doesn't crash, it will reach a new stable point with a lower number of miners. How is it "winner takes all"?

This is true on a flat field yes. but if some player/s have the ability to bias the field then it all goes to shit.

Quote from: Brangdon on March 15, 2014, 11:22:32 AM

"Regulated" is a myth. It implies a central regulator, and that doesn't fit with a world currency - an internet currency.

Regulation is not a myth, I wish it were.

We are in agreement, You don't like regulation, I don't like regulation. We are probably not in the peak of the distribution of like/hate regulation when considering a large sample of potential future users.

The viruses that are coins compete for users and miners. The primary entrance being the miners of course. Are you suggesting that all miners hate regulation so much that truth and liberty is their prime directive? I can imagine (call me cynical) that the prime directive for many will be profit, sure they will wear the bitcoin t-shirt, but will they make sacrificial moves if it comes to the crunch? I'm sure some will, but when the players are anonymous, the game tends to run in a very selfish manner.

It is quite conceivable that the downfall might be as simple as a new pool that has fiat backing, over time it would absorb all hashpower.

in a nutshell: whose got the deepest pockets before the game begins?

S4VV4S

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Many have tried, all have failed.

I have nothing more to add.

btcxyzzz

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Monero - secure, private and untraceable currency.

5) govt support, which will never happen.

seems alike that bitcoin won't be overthrown anywhere soon.

roslinpl

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Quote from: ashapasa on March 15, 2014, 06:52:19 AM

Ok we all love bitcoin

, but there are hundreds of newcoins and not all of them are crapcoins. Bitcoin is the innovator and trailblazer but they are usually not the ones to succeed in the long term. What features that are improved over bitcoin will allow a new coin to ultimately dethrone the king.

1) faster transactions
2) Lower transaction cost
3) anonymity
4) premined pos which saves energy
5) Huh

you get the idea

5) more people who want this coin

corebob

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Quote from: ashapasa on March 15, 2014, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: corebob on March 15, 2014, 12:00:39 PM

I can only answer for myself, personally I think X11 hashing and CoinJoin is relevant improvements

would you be kind enough to elaborate? What is x11 hashing and coinjoin ( is it merge mining?)

What I mean by X11 hashing is to apply 11 rounds of scientific hashing functions (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo)
This makes it harder to create an efficient ASIC, which means that CPU and GPU mining is still viable, which means that mining stays decentralized

CoinJoin basically collects several transactions and mixes the inputs and outputs. This makes it impossible to track where transactions came from and where they went

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: ashapasa on March 15, 2014, 12:01:00 PM

I must with due respect disagree, money is ultimately trust, if a powerful country adopts a cryptocurrency it will easily rival bitcoin.

The thing you have to understand is that cryptocurrency is antithetical to government interests because it robs them of their monopoly-power over currency generation. Why do you think governments from China to Russia to the USA are positioning themselves as opponents of Bitcoin?

The same reason all of these governments will send men with guns to your house if you try to print a physical currency that competes with their own fiat. POWER.

They are completely reliant on the constant printing of money to keep their populations enslaved. Cryptocurency is the most subversive technology in the world today. If governments give up their fiat in exchange for crypto, we have won!!

Please see this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

ashapasa

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Quote from: corebob on March 15, 2014, 12:00:39 PM

I can only answer for myself, personally I think X11 hashing and CoinJoin is relevant improvements

would you be kind enough to elaborate? What is x11 hashing and coinjoin ( is it merge mining?)

ashapasa

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 15, 2014, 11:31:09 AM

Quote from: g4c on March 15, 2014, 10:52:02 AM

If miners can be encouraged to run SHA256 for something more profitable than Bitcoin then bitcoin will die quickly, it's a winner takes all game.

I dunno, ohhh.. lets say a government backed and regulated coin.

Nation-state governments and their rigged, ponzi-scheme currencies are going to magically regain legitimacy, eh?

Do you actually believe this shit, or are you just trolling? Nation-states and their clownish currencies are done, son.

Welcome to the information age, truth flourishes here.

I must with due respect disagree, money is ultimately trust, if a powerful country adopts a cryptocurrency it will easily rival bitcoin. Government exists because there is a need for it, it brings law and order, stability and a sense of certainty. A lot of bitcoin investors/users are using it not for ideological reason they are in it for the innovation or for profit.

corebob

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I can only answer for myself, personally I think X11 hashing and CoinJoin is relevant improvements

g4c

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@all

you must also remember that:

Competing altcoins have never tried the tactic of fiat injection as incentive to switch.

No competing altcoin has ever had the power to say all other competing coins are black market, but our altcoin is governent backed.

I can see how this is unsavoury, it is to me also. But to deny the advantage that government has is rather a narrow minded attitude.

Remember not every head on the planet is as libertarian as our good selves.

Carl Quesadilla

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be careful. because with the use of Dark Energy and SatoshiCoin. BTCitcoins price is gonna plummet to infinity Shocked

g4c

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 15, 2014, 11:31:09 AM

Quote from: g4c on March 15, 2014, 10:52:02 AM

If miners can be encouraged to run SHA256 for something more profitable than Bitcoin then bitcoin will die quickly, it's a winner takes all game.

I dunno, ohhh.. lets say a government backed and regulated coin.

Nation-state governments and their rigged, ponzi-scheme currencies are going to magically regain legitimacy, eh?

Do you actually believe this shit, or are you just trolling? Nation-states and their clownish currencies are done, son.

Welcome to the information age, truth flourishes here.

I admire your David and Goliath idealism, but see no rebuttal.

ashapasa

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Quote from: jabo38 on March 15, 2014, 11:43:55 AM

Bitcoin essentially has a 0% market share in the world. 10 billion market cap, so what! That is just a small part of a large company. There is a lot of time and room for another coin to surpass bitcoin. Said coin would only need a 0.5% market share and would be way larger than bitcoin. What would do it? A revolutionary new coin, based off of a different system that is safer, faster, more efficient, advertised better, easier to use, has lots of killer apps built on top of it, and has a much better marketing campaign. Any new coin that does this, will tear bitcoin to pieces. This isn't going to be a "hey, I forked bitcoin and added a single feature," type of coin. It is going to take real innovation. Same decentralized blockchain concept, but from the ground up, everything is different, better, faster, more efficient.

You do have a point, 10 billion market cap is tiny in the grand scheme of things, btw nice to see you outside the NEM thread

jabo38

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mining is so 2012-2013

Bitcoin essentially has a 0% market share in the world. 10 billion market cap, so what! That is just a small part of a large company. There is a lot of time and room for another coin to surpass bitcoin. Said coin would only need a 0.5% market share and would be way larger than bitcoin. What would do it? A revolutionary new coin, based off of a different system that is safer, faster, more efficient, advertised better, easier to use, has lots of killer apps built on top of it, and has a much better marketing campaign. Any new coin that does this, will tear bitcoin to pieces. This isn't going to be a "hey, I forked bitcoin and added a single feature," type of coin. It is going to take real innovation. Same decentralized blockchain concept, but from the ground up, everything is different, better, faster, more efficient.

ashapasa

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master-P

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https://keybase.io/masterp FREE Escrow Service

A new coin would need infrastructure and adoption in order to overtake Bitcoin. Bitcoin has set the standard for cryptos, much like Apple or Paypal/Ebay have in their respective fields.

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: g4c on March 15, 2014, 10:52:02 AM

If miners can be encouraged to run SHA256 for something more profitable than Bitcoin then bitcoin will die quickly, it's a winner takes all game.

I dunno, ohhh.. lets say a government backed and regulated coin.

Nation-state governments and their rigged, ponzi-scheme currencies are going to magically regain legitimacy, eh?

Do you actually believe this shit, or are you just trolling? Nation-states and their clownish currencies are done, son.

Welcome to the information age, truth flourishes here.

lorix

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Quote from: ashapasa on March 15, 2014, 06:52:19 AM

Ok we all love bitcoin

, but there are hundreds of newcoins and not all of them are crapcoins. Bitcoin is the innovator and trailblazer but they are usually not the ones to succeed in the long term. What features that are improved over bitcoin will allow a new coin to ultimately dethrone the king.

1) faster transactions
2) Lower transaction cost
3) anonymity
4) premined pos which saves energy
5) Huh

you get the idea

None of the above, strictly speaking.

The ultimate determinate will be net-work effect - that is the number of people adopting the technology having a snowball effect that brings even more into the fold.

Now exactly how this might be achieved... it's not likely that an open source alt-coin would spring up and overtake Bitcoin as any game-changing features could ultimately be co-opted by the developers into Bitcoin.

The only real threat I see is if the major banks and credit card companies somehow got together and created a closed-source cryptocurrency that had the same look and feel to the end-user that Bitcoin has. They could then put their global marketing machine behind it and if they did I believe that could represent a solid threat to Bitcoin's dominance.

They could also employ other dirty tricks such as making the use of their credit card processing services to a business conditional on their NOT accepting Bitcoin as a payment method.

Meuh6879

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1) faster transactions : why ? the network run at 7 transactions per second ? NO : i see in my log 0,3 transactions per second.
2) Lower transaction cost : why ? miners exist because of fee ... and fee restrict the SPAM of the network with 0 btc sending.
3) anonymity : why ? All bank can see the fund transmitter ... THE BANK, no me (it's not fair !)
4) premined pos which saves energy : why ? I want use my phone to pay in store (or internet sales)

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