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Topic: What would be an ideal KYC solution? - page 4. (Read 4987 times)

legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1775
December 13, 2022, 05:06:19 AM
With all the KYC talk lately I wanted to open up a thread and ask about your opinion.
I've been seeing quite a lot of users who have gambled at well-known casinos lately, complaining for various reasons, it's because of the ineffective KYC verification system, so that it is easy for users who do not want to accept their defeat when betting at online casinos to carry out the element of risk of accusations, fraud and crime.

In my opinion to avoid all the risks of crime against online casinos from users who blame various kinds of bonuses, multi-accounts and so on, in the system minimizing kyc a good and smart foundation to reduce the activity of several loopholes and manipulations such as fraud crimes in general.

On the one hand, a KYC strategy based on digital online casinos will drive transformation and will create multiple identity experiences for the casino as a whole, for example: KYC electronically the casino can get to know customers or users in detail, if a crime occurs as I said above at a later date.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 416
stead.builders
December 13, 2022, 04:48:52 AM
However why this 1xbit spammers are saying KYC casino is good? what I know 1xbit is a casino that doesn't require KYC, so does this mean 1xbit is a bad casino? Cheesy

This is quite smart and would be possible. It would be interesting to see how the casinos would battle an influx of fake documents... This would most likely create another completely opposite industry (e.g. software to detect fake documents).
There's no tools that has a perfect system to distinguish between fake documents and legit documents, those tools only give a percentage of possible the documents got edited. False positive could happen, it would make a genuine gambler got accused, this is why requiring KYC is pointless.

If a gambler decided on what he wants, define his search and go after it, there's nothing bad about that, KYC is nit a thing of force to do, it has to be an optional decision to take and the extent to how you can research and trust the findings from your search is what should be considered, but we need to emphasize that casinos need not to frame things up about their KYC requirements before gamblers to engage them and later regret their decision in choosing them, which means there must be transparency in whatsoever thing we do.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 541
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
December 13, 2022, 04:17:39 AM
This is quite smart and would be possible. It would be interesting to see how the casinos would battle an influx of fake documents... This would most likely create another completely opposite industry (e.g. software to detect fake documents).
Maybe falsification of documents to verify gambling accounts can happen. Still, it won't happen forever because the casino will look for ways to prevent it. Maybe later, there will be face identification of each gambler so that the casino will know that the account owner is really valid. We have seen that some exchanges are already doing face verification and this may also be implemented in casinos that want to have real members with the documents they have.
sr. member
Activity: 2436
Merit: 455
December 13, 2022, 03:09:16 AM
There is no solution.

Centralized Casino always required you "KYC", never believe any casino who offers you "Without-KYC" from Centralized Casino. A casino who offering without KYC is always Decentralized CASINO while the type gambling is on-chain gambling (Using smart-contract without any developer touch). But the problem for Decentralized Casino, we really have limited gambling game (Most the time, Dice-chain or Lottery).

Always be ready for "KYC". My advice, play on casino who have higher minimum withdraw for required "KYC". Example like "Stake", I already tested withdraw 10,000$ they not ask me KYC.

Most of the casinos nowadays really require a KYC because they are being regulated by the government. In this case, you'll know that they are already in centralized manner. Most casinos are like this because they have to adapt from the changes, otherwise, their operations might put into halt if they won't follow the authorities. Although yes, there are still casinos which do not require such. However, like what you said, the games are limited and they are only a few of them left as well.

There are also casinos who claim to having no KYC but on the latter part when you are going to withdraw your funds and prizes, they'll hold your account because you have to undergo the verification process. In this instance, you should be careful on where to play and where to sign up because you might be surprised at the end of the day.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1208
December 13, 2022, 01:25:23 AM
However why this 1xbit spammers are saying KYC casino is good? what I know 1xbit is a casino that doesn't require KYC, so does this mean 1xbit is a bad casino? Cheesy

This is quite smart and would be possible. It would be interesting to see how the casinos would battle an influx of fake documents... This would most likely create another completely opposite industry (e.g. software to detect fake documents).
There's no tools that has a perfect system to distinguish between fake documents and legit documents, those tools only give a percentage of possible the documents got edited. False positive could happen, it would make a genuine gambler got accused, this is why requiring KYC is pointless.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
December 13, 2022, 12:26:06 AM
Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

I didn't know about this, do you have any examples which I could take a look at?

I'm aware that AI content is entering it's renaissance period, I'm dodging those AI writers as crazy this year, but to generate KYC imagery is a new thing that I didn't know exists Cheesy  

There are no off the shelf services made for this specific purpose, at least none that I'm aware of, also I suspect that any currently available off the shelf text to AI service would have anti-counterfeit features in-built.

However given a combination of:
1: sufficient motivation
2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
3: access to the correct training data such as the imagery stored in any kyc data base of any existing casino
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

then it is my opinion that the quality of the image reproduction possible at current levels is sufficiently high enough to produce persuasive results. The quality of that imagery is improving at an exponential rate. I believe also that the Equivalent levels of high quality real-time video is not far off if not already within the realms of possibility.

I have already stated that KYC data is of high commercial value to a casino like stake.com. They are exerting high pressure on players to hand over that data at minimum cost before any legislation prevents them from doing this. Selling access to a KYC database for the purpose of building a text to image training model for deep fake ID image generation, is just one example of how players can be exploited beyond the traditional levels of exploitation you'd expect from the average online casino.



This is quite smart and would be possible. It would be interesting to see how the casinos would battle an influx of fake documents... This would most likely create another completely opposite industry (e.g. software to detect fake documents).
member
Activity: 686
Merit: 21
December 12, 2022, 05:25:19 PM
Fortunately I will say that a casino verification is something that will determine or attest that this person is credible and also part of the platform by 4 ft documentation to the platform but some people do not like to accept some verification of kyc in a platform because I find it very difficult to verify why it is something that protect you from having a miss found in your account
KYC is good most time to verify the identities of users and need to be less for requirements. Some casinos asking for KYC do have another purposes for this which is why many gamblers do not like to use a KYC casinos. I can see that some of the verification is to ensure the users identities so that there will be less complains from users a out account problem or difficulties.
Kyc is very important except that it's people that does not know the essence of kyc because if you work online then you will know that a platform giving you an order for kyc verification means that they want to put it your your account and also your phones created so that when anything happen to eat on an entire that is to show that you are one of them because all your documents have been very fine but some people does not understand it that way
member
Activity: 812
Merit: 13
Crypto bookmaker and casino
December 12, 2022, 05:17:46 PM
Fortunately I will say that a casino verification is something that will determine or attest that this person is credible and also part of the platform by 4 ft documentation to the platform but some people do not like to accept some verification of kyc in a platform because I find it very difficult to verify why it is something that protect you from having a miss found in your account
KYC is good most time to verify the identities of users and need to be less for requirements. Some casinos asking for KYC do have another purposes for this which is why many gamblers do not like to use a KYC casinos. I can see that some of the verification is to ensure the users identities so that there will be less complains from users a out account problem or difficulties.
member
Activity: 868
Merit: 38
Join hands and help me to grow everybody...
December 12, 2022, 04:44:24 PM
Fortunately I will say that a casino verification is something that will determine or attest that this person is credible and also part of the platform by 4 ft documentation to the platform but some people do not like to accept some verification of kyc in a platform because I find it very difficult to verify why it is something that protect you from having a miss found in your account
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 1
December 12, 2022, 04:28:52 PM
2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

I was laughing on this a bit too much Cheesy

I loved the overview, and you're completely right, it would be doable.

haha thanks, I'm trying to figure out who is running AI text generators on their accounts.


legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1009
December 12, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Sites can use the KYC procedure as they wish. There are no standard rules for this. Unfortunately, it is also often used to delay payouts, as we have seen in the past. And then when documents are requested, sites are happy to take weeks to complete the verification. There are also scams that ask for new additional documents. The KYC has always been there in online gambling. It has become more and more a requirement, but many gamblers will have few problems with it. In a gambling shop you also have to show your passport if you are going to gamble there.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 2073
December 12, 2022, 02:08:24 PM
A preferable way of KYC for me would be a picture of me, holding a piece of paper with current date, site address and a visible account information, showing that this is me who has logged in into my platforms account. I am not fond of sharing any of my documents. In fact, with all modern technologies, black market, VPNs, it is not hard to create fake ID or imitate location to bypass existence to unsupported country. That is why all that "send frond and back of ID, passport, drivers license, and a picture of you holding it" does not solve KYC problem.

I agree with you. I, too, am of the opinion that KYC cannot give any guarantee that the account really belongs to the person in whose name it is registered. I've heard more than once that abusers have hundreds of accounts on various sites.

There are more and more stories on the internet lately about someone being played with dip-fake technology. I think that even a video conference will not help to identify the person on the other end of the line, if it is very necessary.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1160
Playbet.io - Crypto Casino and Sportsbook
December 12, 2022, 01:55:01 PM
The side of the casino:
One more, they will always say that they must ensure that their users are not from certain restricted countries to make them safe. However, this may not be the main reason.

If comparing the pros and cons of doing KYC and not, it will never end, moreover if we are talking about the centralized casino. although they always say that they are high in privacy, when they are asking for KYC this means that they are not dealing with privacy. However, we don't know if they are really trusted enough or not in keeping safe our data. I really hate sending photos of my identity and my face to the KYC identification because this is too private. But sometimes, we don't have the choice to pick the best casino to have. Once more, they will not give us the solution that the term and condition may make the suers afraid to continue.
I don’t believe that centralized casinos have high privacy because if they do, they don’t have to disclose our private information into the government that regulated them. But it’s not the case since centralized casinos have to follow the terms and conditions given by the government, otherwise they will subject for investigation. So my point is, let’s just accept the reality that if you gamble in reputable centralized casinos, be ready to take the risk since KYC is soon to become compulsory. And with that, privacy is no longer given to us as these casinos have taken our own privacy.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1157
MAaaN...!! CUT THAT STUPID SHIT
December 12, 2022, 01:07:31 PM
~snip~KYC should not be required for any gambler, but since some people may use gambling sites for money laundering or other unlawful things, rules were definitely made. All problems start with the user himself, and therefore prevention is thought of regardless of being detrimental or beneficial to one side or both parties.

what is feared is that cases of money laundering will indeed occur, because online casinos will be very vulnerable to being misused as a place to store crime proceeds and eliminate traces by laundering money in casino games.
KYC regulations are needed to find out who the customer is who is depositing and withdrawing a lot of money in several transactions. Maybe not all of them require KYC, only in case of large withdrawals for security reasons. But will this be a good solution? in some online casinos KYC is required, and we as users are also given the choice whether to do KYC or not, we also have to really have the best and most trusted online casino. do not let the data that we input be misused. KYC is good for preventing money laundering and other types of crime, but KYC will also backfire if not in the right place.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1150
December 12, 2022, 12:57:29 PM
KYC is a never-ending debate, but we all know what we want in this space, no KYC is a freedom you can't buy from anyone, it is an indispensable element for users regardless of the casino's benefits. Money laundering in casinos can be reduced by limiting the number of withdrawals unless the casino does so and uses the players as the victims.

Just a few hours ago, Cointracker users emails were leaked due to some carelessness on the team's part, and the users are angry and want to sue the company for allowing their data to be exposed, the same scenario can happen to Casino if it has not already happened, nobody can properly save your documents the way you do, and the moment they are uploaded to the internet, that is the end of your privacy.
I can't really gamble at casinos that exempt me from KYC. Some of the casinos don't ask for personal documents at first, but when you win something that looks like a big, they may demand that you complete the KYC. The lowest data is email, then cellphone number, and maybe they will ask for other data such as bills or whatever they think is necessary so that withdrawals can be made. Regulatory reasons may make sense, but it sure hurts the customer in the end when this data is leaked and misused.

KYC should not be required for any gambler, but since some people may use gambling sites for money laundering or other unlawful things, rules were definitely made. All problems start with the user himself, and therefore prevention is thought of regardless of being detrimental or beneficial to one side or both parties.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 547
Top Crypto Casino
December 12, 2022, 12:46:05 PM
Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.
This is not really a solution, to begin with this is most likely illegal, then you are also taking a massive risk as the casino could ask for more documentation and you will have no way to produce it as all of it was false, and finally if at some point this became popular among some gamblers then casinos will begin to ask for videos of the gamblers holding their documents or even ask to make a video call with you, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.

Where there is no law then there is no law broken and therefore no crime.
No law? Falsification of documents and Identity theft are both serious crimes and people who do this are liable for some jail time once caught. Other than doing illegal activities, you may make the KYC thing worst, especially when a gambling platform requested additional information regarding your documents as it is just made up. You may also, not receive or recover your funds if you won't be able to provide the same information if the casino asked for further verification.
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 912
Not Your Keys, Not Your Bitcoin
December 12, 2022, 11:58:43 AM
KYC is a never-ending debate, but we all know what we want in this space, no KYC is a freedom you can't buy from anyone, it is an indispensable element for users regardless of the casino's benefits. Money laundering in casinos can be reduced by limiting the number of withdrawals unless the casino does so and uses the players as the victims.

Just a few hours ago, Cointracker users emails were leaked due to some carelessness on the team's part, and the users are angry and want to sue the company for allowing their data to be exposed, the same scenario can happen to Casino if it has not already happened, nobody can properly save your documents the way you do, and the moment they are uploaded to the internet, that is the end of your privacy.
hero member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 534
December 12, 2022, 11:21:50 AM
A preferable way of KYC for me would be a picture of me, holding a piece of paper with current date, site address and a visible account information, showing that this is me who has logged in into my platforms account. I am not fond of sharing any of my documents. In fact, with all modern technologies, black market, VPNs, it is not hard to create fake ID or imitate location to bypass existence to unsupported country. That is why all that "send frond and back of ID, passport, drivers license, and a picture of you holding it" does not solve KYC problem.
KYC will be determined directly from the platform demands, because i think that each of the platform have their on way of making or having theirs method of verification, i know that in KYC verification what's necessary there is the image of the follow, so with such way i understand that KYC is something i believe that during the verification it demands one and two ways, so i believe that some people think that the demand of one particular platform concerning KYC verification is same thing.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 570
#NeverForgetGoba
December 12, 2022, 11:11:26 AM
2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

I was laughing on this a bit too much Cheesy

I loved the overview, and you're completely right, it would be doable.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 1
December 12, 2022, 07:57:22 AM
Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

I didn't know about this, do you have any examples which I could take a look at?

I'm aware that AI content is entering it's renaissance period, I'm dodging those AI writers as crazy this year, but to generate KYC imagery is a new thing that I didn't know exists Cheesy  

There are no off the shelf services made for this specific purpose, at least none that I'm aware of, also I suspect that any currently available off the shelf text to AI service would have anti-counterfeit features in-built.

However given a combination of:
1: sufficient motivation
2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
3: access to the correct training data such as the imagery stored in any kyc data base of any existing casino
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

then it is my opinion that the quality of the image reproduction possible at current levels is sufficiently high enough to produce persuasive results. The quality of that imagery is improving at an exponential rate. I believe also that the Equivalent levels of high quality real-time video is not far off if not already within the realms of possibility.

I have already stated that KYC data is of high commercial value to a casino like stake.com. They are exerting high pressure on players to hand over that data at minimum cost before any legislation prevents them from doing this. Selling access to a KYC database for the purpose of building a text to image training model for deep fake ID image generation, is just one example of how players can be exploited beyond the traditional levels of exploitation you'd expect from the average online casino.

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