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Topic: What would be the best way to get through customs at an airport with your Btc? - page 4. (Read 1645 times)

hero member
Activity: 2352
Merit: 905
My point is: make a list of how your valuable data could be found or inspected and try to find reasonable mitigation
How many people here have actually had their electronic devices searched by customs? I don't know anyone who's had that experience.
I was once asked to put the laptop from bottom to top of the bag, that's all. The customs was a strange old man.

It still carries a certain amount of risk. What if your luggage gets lost or stolen in the process? You could lose access to your wallet and funds. Hopefully, you should have backups in safe locations, but then youre back to square one.

Its a creative idea, though.  Wink
Who cares about the luggage in this case? You have to wear this t-shirt. I bet no one will ask you to take off your t-shirt and no one will start looking for what's written inside the label that t-shirts have to warn you about how to wash it. Many of my t-shirts have label inside, in the middle part, it's invisible for everyone unless someone inspects my t-shirt which I hugely doubt. I also don't wear Calvin Klein or Armani Exchange T-shirt, so no one is gonna steal it from me Cheesy

Not bad but for that I prefer the option I mentioned before, write the seeds in invisible ink in a book and then make it visible upon arrival at the destination to restore the wallet.
I think that invisible ink is riskier than my method. At the moment I can't find disadvantage in my method Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 453

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The question is, in what depth does the search go to? I mean, do they scrutinize your objects (& devices) or do they just do an ordinary check?
If you carry (give or take) 1 TB of data with you, a seed phrase is about 0.000000001% of that. I can think of so many ways to just hide a few bytes in that mountain of data, that it would take a very long time to find if you don't know where to look.

The problem with "hiding" something is you might forget how to find it.

Quote
Let's do this, my seed phrase is surprise peace famous office settle romance fatigue wood snack episode occur atom.
I write a letter about a 1. surprise I bought for my wife, but forgot at my 4. office. Then I take a picture of a 3. famous 2. peace advocate. I add a small subtle 6. romance text to an old picture of my wife, remembering when we 5. settled down. Just in case, I'll just remember words 7 and 8, and create a similar system for the remaining words. Of course, I restore the original file date on all edited files.

My head is spinning just listening to that description, Loyce.  Shocked

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Now that I think about it, just memorizing the words is probably easier Cheesy
yeah it probably is but I don't even think you could memorize reliably a 24 word seed phrase, Loyce. I know I couldn't. People over-estimate what they can remember not only in the short term but definitely in the longterm. A 24 word seed phrase is impossible for the average person. Let's just leave it at that.



legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
The question is, in what depth does the search go to? I mean, do they scrutinize your objects (& devices) or do they just do an ordinary check?

In hard secondary (i.e. if you are evasive during the interrogation) they do a full forensic search of the hard drives of your computers and the storage mediums of your other devices.

So if they find anything related to private keys on there then you are probably cooked.

What I would do, is write the seed phrase inside a notebook on a random page, preferably one that has some other manuscript on it, and then it would arouse less suspicion from customs and border protection or another agency.

I don't like the idea of using stenography or GPG on the seed phrase because it is far more likely that you forget how to recover it or it gets damaged/lost in the process.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I guess they have some sort of software that scans for specific types of files. I believe any .gpg, .txt, .asc, .exe file would be more suspicious than a .jpg or .png. I mean, obviously, you can find places to hide your data. Nobody would ever try to manually check 1TB of data. At the same time, automatically scanning using software is faster (good for them) but has security holes (good for the people who want to hide sensitive information)
Let's do this, my seed phrase is surprise peace famous office settle romance fatigue wood snack episode occur atom.
I write a letter about a 1. surprise I bought for my wife, but forgot at my 4. office. Then I take a picture of a 3. famous 2. peace advocate. I add a small subtle 6. romance text to an old picture of my wife, remembering when we 5. settled down. Just in case, I'll just remember words 7 and 8, and create a similar system for the remaining words. Of course, I restore the original file date on all edited files.
Now that I think about it, just memorizing the words is probably easier Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 1045
If you carry (give or take) 1 TB of data with you, a seed phrase is about 0.000000001% of that. I can think of so many ways to just hide a few bytes in that mountain of data, that it would take a very long time to find if you don't know where to look.

I guess they have some sort of software that scans for specific types of files. I believe any .gpg, .txt, .asc, .exe file would be more suspicious than a .jpg or .png. I mean, obviously, you can find places to hide your data. Nobody would ever try to manually check 1TB of data. At the same time, automatically scanning using software is faster (good for them) but has security holes (good for the people who want to hide sensitive information)
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Loyce meant that it's statistically rarer to be searched at the customs.
Don't feed the troll Wink

Quote
The question is, in what depth does the search go to? I mean, do they scrutinize your objects (& devices) or do they just do an ordinary check?
If you carry (give or take) 1 TB of data with you, a seed phrase is about 0.000000001% of that. I can think of so many ways to just hide a few bytes in that mountain of data, that it would take a very long time to find if you don't know where to look.
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 453

Loyce meant that it's statistically rarer to be searched at the customs.

it's statistically rare to get hacked on your computer but does that mean we should just store our private keys on the hard drive? probably not right?


Quote
The question is, in what depth does the search go to? I mean, do they scrutinize your objects (& devices) or do they just do an ordinary check?

it all depends. if they find you suspicious and get a search warrant then they can seize your phone for forensic analysis.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 1045
How many people here have actually had their electronic devices searched by customs? I don't know anyone who's had that experience.
it has happened. just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.

Loyce meant that it's statistically rarer to be searched at the customs.

Personally, I have never been searched and, none of my friends have ever been searched. But! Of course it happens.

The question is, in what depth does the search go to? I mean, do they scrutinize your objects (& devices) or do they just do an ordinary check?
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 453
How many people here have actually had their electronic devices searched by customs? I don't know anyone who's had that experience.
it has happened. just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I suspect in some countries that could still be a grey area and subject to customs officers' interpretation.
Agreed, it's probably a gray area. What if for instance the private key is encrypted and I don't have the key with me?
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
Well, in the EU you must declare everything over 10.000€.
You could argue you're not bringing anything physical. Otherwise hiding it from customs would be illegal.
Bitcoin isn't in your wallet, Bitcoin is on the blockchain. You may have access to it, but that's kinda like having access to your bank account when you're abroad.

You're probably right, although it could be argued that e.g. a physical coin with a prepaid balance and a seed phrase (or qr code) hidden inside of it would potentially fall under declarable goods, as whoever owns it would have access to those bitcoins. It wouldn't be quite the same as having internet bank account. So potentially the method of storing bitcoins could matter for crossing a border.
I suspect in some countries that could still be a grey area and subject to customs officers' interpretation.
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
Duelbits - Play for Free | Win for Real
If you are going to do it that way just embed the info in a legitimate image using something like this:
https://pypi.org/project/cryptosteganography/

Many other options available to do it.

Even if someone looks through every image it still will not matter unless they try to decode / decrypt every image.

I really don't think anyone is going to bother going that deep unless you are on some list. And if you are it probably does not matter anyway they already know what you have.

-Dave
As DaveF mentioned, steganography techniques can be more interesting than other complicated methods, but before hiding a message as a seed in an image, you won't do it with a bare seed without protection, you can add a passphrase, but I wouldn't do that in this case.

One of the techniques I've been studying is seed-otp, which consists of creating a multifactor authentication key, this key combined with your mnemonic phrase creates a new list of words indistinguishable from your original mnemonic phrase, which is nothing more than your encrypted seed, but instead of the encrypted output in cyphertext with a sequence of unreadable random bytes, this method uses words similar to the BIP39 wordlist to encode your original mnemonic phrase. You could stop here, but you would still have to explain to the customs guard why you still carry a list with 12/24 words (if this ever really happens, the chances of it happening I believe are very low).

With the mnemonic phrase encrypted by seed-otp, you can load this information into an image by embedding it and optionally inserting a password. There are several applications that fulfill this function, one of them is OpenStego (I haven't used any others). This way, you can save the image that carries the secret of your encrypted wallet on your smartphone, pen drive or any other media device that carries images. This way, there is no way to suspect a simple image, even if you inspect your device (I've never seen this happen).

You must remember your OTP key responsible for restoring the mnemonic phrase to its original state. To do this, you can save this key in a keepass file or another password manager of your choice or write it down on a piece of paper, since it won't draw attention in the same way as a list of words known to be a bitcoin wallet mnemonic.

Here is an example step-by-step:

1st let's say you create a new mnemonic phrase or use an existing one, download the html file from the seed tools page (the process is similar to iancoleman), after everything is ready, create or insert your recovery seed:





2nd Go to "Select a Bitcoin Tool" and select the "One Time Pad" option, below there will be a "One Time pad key" field containing an otp key, if you prefer, you can generate a new otp key by clicking on "New Key".





3rd After creating the otp-key, click on "encrypt" and a new list of words similar to a mnemonic will be created, it is nothing more than your encrypted mnemonic.




Ex:
My original mnemonic:
Code:
auto pelican midnight initial barrel kitten aisle rate proof leader point private

My otp-key:
Code:
AAwFIAN4AwUCxQaTBhcEsgHmBe8EagHsAVdVUxlP

My encrypted one time pad seed:
Code:
receive bacon unfair smart topple dilemma orbit upon health armed tooth stock

It is essential that you know the original mnemonic, have it written down or memorized (regardless of the method, memorize your mnemonic in addition to having it written down), save the otp-key and the one-time-pad encrypted seed so that we can test it and verify that it returns to the original state of your seed upon arrival at the airport and at your final destination.

To do this, reload the page, select "one time Pad" again, paste your otp-key in the "One Time Pad Key" field, paste/type your mnemonic phrase encrypted by One Time Pad and click "DECRYPT".

The final result is your original mnemonic phrase  Wink

legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
I only briefly see the 1st part ("Personal Server"). But since it involve using PGP and setting server where you access it with .onion rather than plain IP address, average people would find it challenging.
It's truly challenging for normal users.

I watched some videos of Andreas Antonopoulos in which he advised that people should never complicate their back up methods too much because it can result in more complex recovery procedure. In worst case, if recovery procedure is broken in the middle by broken piece of initial back ups, the wallet will be lost forever.

Generally, i agree with Andreas. Although each people would choose different security/ease-of-use trade-off. Video shared by @apogio is still suitable for those who're familiar with setup and maintaining server.

Point "B" (point of arrival): a BTC-wallet with a secure storage of the seed phrase has been created in advance.

I think you forget to mention that you need to store the device or other medium which used store the private key/seed securely. Unless you have property on point "B", you probably have to place the device/other medium on someone's else building.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
by the time of arrival, your bitcoin will already be in the wallet
It's going into semantics, but there is no Bitcoin in a wallet. Bitcoin is on the blockchain. I don't see the point of creating a wallet on your destination before funding it. Even worse: that creates new points of failure: the wallet can be compromised while you're not there.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1296
keep walking, Johnnie
I think in the best technical way to get through without the agents being able to detect that you have a single satoshi. The most logical would be to memorize the seeds but relying on memory would not leave me 100% at ease. Is there another feasible, safe way?
I think the safest way to go through airport customs with bitcoin is when you have NOTHING with you that can be linked to bitcoin (no seed phrase, no hardware wallets, no pre-installed wallets on laptops and phones).

I'll explain how I imagine it (but this will only work if you've already visited the point of arrival and departure, i.e. the point of arrival is not new).

Point "A" (point of departure): as usual, you create a BTC-wallet with a secure storage of the seed phrase.
Point "B" (point of arrival): a BTC-wallet with a secure storage of the seed phrase has been created in advance.
Before the flight from point "A" to point "B" you make a transaction from the 1st wallet to the 2nd and by the time of arrival, your bitcoin will already be in the wallet, and at customs you will not have anything incriminating related to the bitcoin (in case of a detailed inspection).

But this option is not suitable for emergency (unscheduled) flights.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I watched some videos of Andreas Antonopoulos in which he advised that people should never complicate their back up methods too much because it can result in more complex recovery procedure.
You mean like this?
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 120
I only briefly see the 1st part ("Personal Server"). But since it involve using PGP and setting server where you access it with .onion rather than plain IP address, average people would find it challenging.
It's truly challenging for normal users.

I watched some videos of Andreas Antonopoulos in which he advised that people should never complicate their back up methods too much because it can result in more complex recovery procedure. In worst case, if recovery procedure is broken in the middle by broken piece of initial back ups, the wallet will be lost forever.

Brute force a Bitcoin private key or wallet is almost impossible and the bottom line is keep your back up simple.

Some people choose seed splitting which is risky and not recommended.
Seed splitting is a bad idea.
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
There is a video series on YouTube which is fantastic! I watched it just for fun, but I would to like to hear someone else's opinion on that, perhaps after actually trying it.

"Escape with your Bitcoin":

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWGXdn3sdp8
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMQupuGpSsw
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1urPLr83Ojg

I only briefly see the 1st part ("Personal Server"). But since it involve using PGP and setting server where you access it with .onion rather than plain IP address, average people would find it challenging. You're expected to ensure the server remains on and connected to internet, before you move elsewhere and access it remotely. While you could rent VPS for that task, some trust is required even though you store the encrypted data (seed, pass, etc.).
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
Be frank, isn't it very creative? And safe?

Not bad but for that I prefer the option I mentioned before, write the seeds in invisible ink in a book and then make it visible upon arrival at the destination to restore the wallet.

There is a video series on YouTube which is fantastic! I watched it just for fun, but I would to like to hear someone else's opinion on that, perhaps after actually trying it.

"Escape with your Bitcoin":

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWGXdn3sdp8
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMQupuGpSsw
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1urPLr83Ojg

I think that's almost a couple of hours in total but thanks, I'll watch them.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 1045
There is a video series on YouTube which is fantastic! I watched it just for fun, but I would to like to hear someone else's opinion on that, perhaps after actually trying it.

"Escape with your Bitcoin":

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWGXdn3sdp8
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMQupuGpSsw
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1urPLr83Ojg
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