Sending to different address and requesting part of the pie because some security is broken
WTF excuse for a steal ! 
Topic: What would you do if you generated a Bitcoin address which had 100btc in it. - page 2. (Read 8512 times)
November 05, 2013, 12:18:15 PM
Honest people would just remove the private key from their wallet
Sending to different address and requesting part of the pie because some security is broken WTF excuse for a steal !
Sending to different address and requesting part of the pie because some security is broken
WTF excuse for a steal ! 
November 05, 2013, 12:12:50 PM
Is the ratio of criminals to noncriminals really that high? Or do the honest people just not bother answering this question?
November 05, 2013, 11:59:40 AM
if i would know the owner i give it back and ask for a little bitcoin because i give it back 
. think thats fair for both.
. think thats fair for both. 
November 05, 2013, 11:52:28 AM
I wouldn't fault anyone for taking all the coins. When you generate an address fairly, that address is yours. If it also happens to be someone else's address, that's how the system works. The odds of this happening are at least a billion times less than the odds of me dying in a car accident tomorrow, but mathematically, it's possible.
I recommend dividing your wealth across at least 5 addresses.
I recommend dividing your wealth across at least 5 addresses.
November 05, 2013, 11:39:56 AM
I would assume I'm dead, since the odds against it are so insurmountable as to make it effectively impossible in this reality.
November 05, 2013, 10:56:37 AM
I'd probably send 1.337 btc to 1watchthis123456789 just to see what happens
November 05, 2013, 09:51:04 AM
I would probably send it to my own adress.
November 05, 2013, 09:23:03 AM
The question is akin to this,
If you walked into a crowded parking deck and hit the unlock button on your key fob for your Honda Accord and the nearby Maserati lit up, the door swung open and a voice came over the parking deck speakers and said your name and welcomed you into the vehicle as if it were your own then when you sat down in the car the key also just happened to fit and start the engine... then would you take the car?
If you walked into a crowded parking deck and hit the unlock button on your key fob for your Honda Accord and the nearby Maserati lit up, the door swung open and a voice came over the parking deck speakers and said your name and welcomed you into the vehicle as if it were your own then when you sat down in the car the key also just happened to fit and start the engine... then would you take the car?
The voice over the speaker system is giving the man the car, even if the voice is lying he might think its a publicity stunt and play along.
The OP's Bitcoin example involves the theft of Bitcoin without almost any repercussions. The question here boils down to an ethical one, without the chance of being caught do you steal a random's Bitcoins.
Many will steal them, and most of the people that will steal them have to rationalize the theft to themselves. ("No one should put so many coins in one address!", "God gave them to me", "Fate, nuff said", etc..)
However no rationalization is needed in your example because you are literally being given a car and the whole thing smells of a publicity stunt. In fact he probably expects himself to be apart of a show on TV and is probably researching hidden camera shows to see if any filmed in the local area.
I am tired and rambling, if I make no sense please disregard the above.
November 05, 2013, 09:16:23 AM
The question is akin to this,
If you walked into a crowded parking deck and hit the unlock button on your key fob for your Honda Accord and the nearby Maserati lit up, the door swung open and a voice came over the parking deck speakers and said your name and welcomed you into the vehicle as if it were your own then when you sat down in the car the key also just happened to fit and start the engine... then would you take the car?
If you walked into a crowded parking deck and hit the unlock button on your key fob for your Honda Accord and the nearby Maserati lit up, the door swung open and a voice came over the parking deck speakers and said your name and welcomed you into the vehicle as if it were your own then when you sat down in the car the key also just happened to fit and start the engine... then would you take the car?
November 05, 2013, 09:04:48 AM
If that happened it would prove that fate exists and the universe would want me to have the 100btc
So you got from a random coincidence, to a sentient universe, and then to a justification of your greed in just one step. WOW :wow: Amazing what folks can do when self-intrest is their only motive.
Yes well most people would rationalize their way to keeping the Bitcoins, making up excuses such as fate, no one used them, etc...
If I was going to keep the 100 BTC, then at least I would be honest about it! I am not interested into deluding myself into thinking that God gave me Bitcoins.
November 05, 2013, 08:48:43 AM
If that happened it would prove that fate exists and the universe would want me to have the 100btc
So you got from a random coincidence, to a sentient universe, and then to a justification of your greed in just one step. WOW :wow: Amazing what folks can do when self-intrest is their only motive.
November 05, 2013, 08:20:37 AM
I just spit Energy Drink all over my keyboard. Thanks dude. 
Never put anything in your mouth while reading a forum. The odds of humor popping up somewhere is just to high.
November 05, 2013, 08:14:25 AM
Ok, new data, will recalc everything:
is my math roughly correct now?
If so, I can say: "Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
- probability of getting struck by lightning in any given year: 1/280000.
- probability of taking a shit at any given point in time: 1/(60*24) = 1/1440 (assuming you take a crap every day and the actual process takes 1 minute)
- probability of getting struck by lightning while taking a crap in any given year: 1/(280000*1440) = 1/1.47E11 = 2.48E-9
- probability of taking a crap while being in a situation where being struck by lightning can actually occur = 1/1440 = 0.25 = 1.74E-4
- probability of finding a collision: 1E-65
- getting hit by lightning while taking a crap for how many years in a row is equally probable as finding a collision: log(1E-65) / log(1.74E-4) = 17.3
is my math roughly correct now?
If so, I can say: "Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
I just spit Energy Drink all over my keyboard. Thanks dude.
November 05, 2013, 08:05:08 AM
That's a small chance. But,, it can still happen..which kind of scares me.
If you're scared of this, then you sure as hell should stop using banks and credit cards.Because the chance of someone guessing your credit card details, AND your online banking credentials (AND winning the Powerball twice in a row) is still much, MUCH larger than someone accidentally generating your bitcoin address.
Or getting struck by a lightning...twice in a row.
Ok, new data, will recalc everything:
is my math roughly correct now?
If so, I can say: "Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
- probability of getting struck by lightning in any given year: 1/280000.
- probability of taking a shit at any given point in time: 1/(60*24) = 1/1440 (assuming you take a crap every day and the actual process takes 1 minute)
- probability of getting struck by lightning while taking a crap in any given year: 1/(280000*1440) = 1/1.47E11 = 2.48E-9
- probability of taking a crap while being in a situation where being struck by lightning can actually occur = 1/1440 = 0.25 = 1.74E-4
- probability of finding a collision: 1E-65
- getting hit by lightning while taking a crap for how many years in a row is equally probable as finding a collision: log(1E-65) / log(1.74E-4) = 17.3
is my math roughly correct now?
If so, I can say: "Finding a collision is about as likely as being struck by lightning while taking a crap every year for 17 years in a row".
November 05, 2013, 07:18:23 AM
- Every human has 10 000 addresses with balance on it. This makes with 10billionen people 100 trillion targets or 10^14
This is why you want to focus your search on an address you select as your target.
If Bitcoins were evenly distributed over 100 trillion addresses, there would be 0.00,000,021 (21 Satoshi) in every address. Running the generator randomly would certainly be a waste of time.
November 05, 2013, 07:07:36 AM
But not secure enough? Then just transfer you wealth from one to another address every few minutes.
Moving your wealth will not have an effect, in your example you are just as likely to transfer your money into an address controlled by someone else as someone else gaining control of your address.
The real solution to collisions (not that it is a real problem anyway) is to spread your wealth over as many Bitcoin addresses as possible. If it takes a trillion x trillion years to have a 50% chance of getting the correct key to an address with 50,000 Bitcoins in it, the attacker might not bother if the 50,000 Bitcoins were stored in 50,000 addresses of 1 Bitcoin denomination. This will mean the attacker will have to expend 50 x trillion x trillion years to get all those juicy Bitcoins.
- you want to find a private key to any address, not to one, to get a collusion
- checking balance cost you time,too
- checking balance cost you time,too
The checking of balances will cost time, and you might expend a trillion years to only find 0.004 Bitcoin. The best thing to do is choose a valuable target and focus every key attempt on that address.
If we now focus on the FBI address, the gain for all that hashing might be worth it (for an attacker capable of turning the entire energy of a star into pure computation.)
This way we do not have to check the balance every time and we can eek out more efficient computing.
November 05, 2013, 06:38:19 AM
wow thats alot.
NOTE: My math may be wrong!
Well if my computer can check 200,000,000/Sec then thats 17 trillion addresses per day.
Lets see how close I can get to guessing a private key.
addresses per sec * seconds * minutes * hours * days in the year * age of Earth * some other number to get us close to guessing all possible combinations.
200000000*60*60*24*365*4500000000*10000000000000000000000 = 2.8 x 10^47 (close to how many possible combinations would have to be checked (I think))
So my computer would have to run constantly for the age of the Earth times 10 thousand billion billion (note that about 3 times is already older than the known universe)
So my computer would be running past the heat death of this universe and probably still would have not guessed a key with a balance.
A few things:
- the hashrate will grow over time dramatically.
- you want to find a private key to any address, not to one, to get a collusion
- checking balance cost you time,too
So I will take these numbers:
- Every human has 10 000 addresses with balance on it. This makes with 10billionen people 100 trillion targets or 10^14
- the hashrate of the network is now at 4*10^15 hashes per second. But how will this change over the years? I don't know. We take 10^21 -> 1mio. times more than today.
- there is a total number of possible addresses of 10^77
- 60*60*24*365*4500000000 = 10^17
This makes 10^77 / 10^14 / 10^21 = 10^42 for one second. 10^25 times the existing of the earth.
-> This makes: If you have 1 000 000 times the hashrate of the whole network today, and every human has 10 000 addresses with positive balance you have to calculate many years.
But not secure enough? Then just transfer you wealth from one to another address every few minutes.
November 05, 2013, 06:24:47 AM
Is it not possible to password protect the private key for transfers? Or some other solution?
No! To have the private key of an address proves that you are the owner of this address.
November 05, 2013, 04:32:28 AM
Well if someone has 50.000 bitcoins in one address, they deserve to be stolen. 
Anyway, I picked:
Anyway, I picked:
Quote
Transfer the coins to a different address with a public message, telling the owner to contact me. If (s)he can prove ownership of the private key I will return the coins minus a small finder's fee.
November 05, 2013, 04:26:02 AM
what's the probability of an address collision?
Like pretty much impossible. I believe you would need some absolutely insane luck for that to happen.
Whether I would take the money or not also
I think I would not. Jump to: