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Topic: What's so special about the NAP? - page 22. (Read 20458 times)

myrkul
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Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:56:30 PM
#111
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 05:49:18 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:37:05 PM
Here is a tax chart from 1913.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

Well, there you go, numbers. Thank you. Was that so hard?

Now you have the numbers, you can see a nice correlation between high US debt, high taxes and high growth.

Correlation != causation.

I am not an economist, and I doubt you are either, to draw conclusions from those numbers.
Hawker
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:53:58 PM
#110
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 05:49:18 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:37:05 PM
Here is a tax chart from 1913.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

Well, there you go, numbers. Thank you. Was that so hard?

Now you have the numbers, you can see a nice correlation between high US debt, high taxes and high growth.
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:49:18 PM
#109
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:37:05 PM
Here is a tax chart from 1913.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

Well, there you go, numbers. Thank you. Was that so hard?
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:37:05 PM
#108
Here is a tax chart from 1913.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

If you bothered to google it, there is a helpful summary.

"The rate had reached 94 percent during World War II, on income over $200,000 (approx. $2.49 million in today's dollars). It dropped down to 91 percent in 1946 and remained there until the Kennedy tax cuts in 1962-64. Brackets weren't inflation adjusted back then, so it still applied on income over $200,000, which by then had reached $1.41 million in today's dollars."

myrkul
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Activity: 532
Merit: 500
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Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:32:48 PM
#107
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:28:40 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:06:09 PM
Of course its circular reasoning.  You ask for facts; I provide facts and your reply is "I don't like those facts.  Please give me facts."  

No, I asked for numbers, you gave me words, and when I asked for the numbers that backed up those words, you pointed me back to the words.

I provided a nice wikipedia article with nice sets of numbers all neatly sourced.  Your problem is that you don't like the numbers.

Oh, I see plenty of numbers in that article, but all for 2007. Isn't that "early twenty-first century", not "mid twentieth century"?
Hawker
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:28:40 PM
#106
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:06:09 PM
Of course its circular reasoning.  You ask for facts; I provide facts and your reply is "I don't like those facts.  Please give me facts."  

No, I asked for numbers, you gave me words, and when I asked for the numbers that backed up those words, you pointed me back to the words.

I provided a nice wikipedia article with nice sets of numbers all neatly sourced.  Your problem is that you don't like the numbers.
myrkul
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Activity: 532
Merit: 500
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Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
#105
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 05:06:09 PM
Of course its circular reasoning.  You ask for facts; I provide facts and your reply is "I don't like those facts.  Please give me facts."  

No, I asked for numbers, you gave me words, and when I asked for the numbers that backed up those words, you pointed me back to the words.
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 05:06:09 PM
#104
Of course its circular reasoning.  You ask for facts; I provide facts and your reply is "I don't like those facts.  Please give me facts."  

Its a historical fact that the tax rate was 90% after WW2.  Whining that you don't like it is pointless.  I can't find a different set of facts in Google for you because that is what happened.

myrkul
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Activity: 532
Merit: 500
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Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 04:52:54 PM
#103
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 04:37:42 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]

Google.  Stop being lazy. 

It's your assertion, back it up.

I regard wikipedia as adequate back-up. 

And as I said, [citation needed].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 04:37:42 PM
#102
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]

Google.  Stop being lazy. 

It's your assertion, back it up.

I regard wikipedia as adequate back-up. 

And as I said, [citation needed].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 04:32:24 PM
#101
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]

Google.  Stop being lazy. 

It's your assertion, back it up.

I regard wikipedia as adequate back-up. 

And as I said, [citation needed].
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
#100
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]

Google.  Stop being lazy. 

It's your assertion, back it up.

I regard wikipedia as adequate back-up. 
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
#99
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]

Google.  Stop being lazy. 

It's your assertion, back it up.
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 03:50:47 PM
#98
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]

Google.  Stop being lazy. 
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 03:45:53 PM
#97
Quote from: Hawker on June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

I asked for stats, and since you instead gave me a wikipedia quote, I'm going to have to ask this way: [citation needed]
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
#96
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 01:42:42 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 19, 2012, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: asdf on June 19, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
...snip...

Furthermore, the poor only exist because of the government. After the end of the 2nd world war, poverty was declining at %1 per year (in the USA), until the government created the welfare programs. After that it began to rise again. socialised charity creates a culture of dependency. Simple dolling out cash to poor people doesn't help them.

...snip...

Interesting isn't it.  When income tax was over 90%, the economy boomed and poverty was falling.  Those were the good old days.

So, could you point out stats to back up your claim of 90% income tax after WWII?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

In the mid-twentieth century, marginal tax rates (the rate applied to the last bit of income) in the United States and United Kingdom exceeded 90%

If you are genuinely interested, check the correlation between tax rates and growth.  As the tax rate comes down, the growth rate falls too.  The good old days of the booming US economy were the days when the top rate was 70% and above.  

FirstAscent
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 02:12:44 PM
#95
Quote from: myrkul on June 20, 2012, 01:42:42 PM
Quote from: Hawker on June 19, 2012, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: asdf on June 19, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
...snip...

Furthermore, the poor only exist because of the government. After the end of the 2nd world war, poverty was declining at %1 per year (in the USA), until the government created the welfare programs. After that it began to rise again. socialised charity creates a culture of dependency. Simple dolling out cash to poor people doesn't help them.

...snip...

Interesting isn't it.  When income tax was over 90%, the economy boomed and poverty was falling.  Those were the good old days.

So, could you point out stats to back up your claim of 90% income tax after WWII?

It's already been done. Search the forums.
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 20, 2012, 01:42:42 PM
#94
Quote from: Hawker on June 19, 2012, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: asdf on June 19, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
...snip...

Furthermore, the poor only exist because of the government. After the end of the 2nd world war, poverty was declining at %1 per year (in the USA), until the government created the welfare programs. After that it began to rise again. socialised charity creates a culture of dependency. Simple dolling out cash to poor people doesn't help them.

...snip...

Interesting isn't it.  When income tax was over 90%, the economy boomed and poverty was falling.  Those were the good old days.

So, could you point out stats to back up your claim of 90% income tax after WWII?
Hawker
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 19, 2012, 09:26:35 AM
#93
Quote from: asdf on June 19, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
...snip...

Furthermore, the poor only exist because of the government. After the end of the 2nd world war, poverty was declining at %1 per year (in the USA), until the government created the welfare programs. After that it began to rise again. socialised charity creates a culture of dependency. Simple dolling out cash to poor people doesn't help them.

...snip...

Interesting isn't it.  When income tax was over 90%, the economy boomed and poverty was falling.  Those were the good old days.
asdf
hero member
Activity: 527
Merit: 500
Re: What's so special about the NAP?
June 19, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
#92
If you're worried about the poor being attacked, pay your defense agency to defend them as well as yourself.

If people want the poor to be taken care of, a market will emerge to provide this service. This form of charity will be much more common when the government stops stealing > %50 of our wealth.

Furthermore, the poor only exist because of the government. After the end of the 2nd world war, poverty was declining at %1 per year (in the USA), until the government created the welfare programs. After that it began to rise again. socialised charity creates a culture of dependency. Simple dolling out cash to poor people doesn't help them.

Consider the massive burden the government places on the economy; diverting typically half a nations resources to beurocracy and other unproductive uses. This inefficiency results in less production, meaning less wealth to go around and therefore higher prices. The poor suffer the most. Voluntary trade results in the most efficient allocation of capital, thus the most production/wealth. When the state introduces force in to the equation, everyone loses.
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