What's the most anonymous way to own bitcoin? - page 3.

mk4

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Quote from: LittleBitFunny on March 20, 2021, 03:51:11 PM

I'm sure op is not asking about mining, he is asked how anyone can get BTC stayed as anonymous, It is not possible for everyone who wants to remain anonymous to start mining Bitcoin.

I mean, while it's not the option that everyone is going to end up using(obviously because it's going to require a good chunk of time and money), the reason why people are recommending it because it's truly one of the best options when talking about anonymity.

romero121

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Mining is the best way to own bitcoin in an anonymous manner. This isn't possible with everyone, because it requires more capital investment to set-up mining farm. There are people who run home miners, but that too requires capital. One can own bitcoin anonymously buying from users through our forum or some other sources exchanging gift cards that can be redeemed.

Distinctin

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Quote from: yat97 on March 20, 2021, 10:25:17 AM

Is this the most anonymous way? Buy bitcoin from any exchange. Convert it to monero, send monero to a wallet, and from the wallet swap or exchange it for bitcoin?

Is that basically a way to anonimize your bitcoin? If you buy from most exchanges, they have your info. But once it goes through monero, no one can see anything about where it goes. So when it's traded for bitcoin on your wallet, that could have came from anywhere. There isn't really a way to say where those funds came from right?

Well, using an exchanger will give some hint who you are as they are asking some basic information about you. though it won't directly be pointing you out that you are holding Bitcoin since you are converting it to Monero or any altcoins. However, this never gives you the fullest anonymity. The best thing we do to keep anonymous is to use mixer services, they never ask anything from you and they don't bother to dig who you are.

Ryker1

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Quote from: yat97 on March 20, 2021, 10:25:17 AM

Is this the most anonymous way? Buy bitcoin from any exchange. Convert it to monero, send monero to a wallet, and from the wallet swap or exchange it for bitcoin?

Well, anything will go into the dark and can't able to trace if all of these did not collect your personal identity.
But why make things more complicated if you can use the bitcoin mixer service to mix your bitcoin. The same as a story that I heard from my friend that he used mixer service and he mixed his bitcoin twice and transfer it to his cold storage wallet. He told the bitcoin was comes from a dirty hand and that is why he used twice the bitcoin mixer to hide and increase his anonymity. However, all suggestion above was right and your plan is slightly safe for me but still vulnerable one.

20kevin20

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Quote from: yat97 on March 20, 2021, 12:10:15 PM

So the exchange can see where you sent monero, and from there, when you exchange monero for bitcoin even when done off from the exchange on another platform?

The exchange only knows the address you have withdrawn your Moneros to. If you have a personal XMR address and you move your exchange funds to it, they'll know. But as soon as you move away your funds from your personal XMR address towards another one, things will go dark. All the exchange knows now aboht you is your withdrawal and that's it.

If you're looking for as much anonymity and privacy as possible, Monero might be a better solution for you instead. With Bitcoin, the smallest mistake you make could always turn into the reveal of your entire financial history.

LittleBitFunny

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I'm sure op is not asking about mining, he is asked how anyone can get BTC stayed as anonymous, It is not possible for everyone who wants to remain anonymous to start mining Bitcoin.
The simplest way is buy Bitcoin and use a mixer to mix your coin. If you use Chipmixer then they will give you an equivalent amount of chips before you make your deposit, so you will able to stay anonymous cause no one will find the relation between your chips and deposits.

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Quote from: livingfree on March 20, 2021, 01:49:26 PM

Yes, there's a fee of 0.003% per anonymity set.

https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/FAQ/FAQ-UseWasabi.html#coinjoin

Yeah and considering the current BTC value in USD it turns out a lot even if you go with a single BTC.

I normally use Chipmixer. Long time ago I tried wasabi and it seemed a long for the highest number of anonymity set. I was playing with the setup at that time. BTC price and mempool congestion was too low at that time.

cheezcarls

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P2P is the best way to anonymously own Bitcoin. I have a friend of mine who likes to own some Bitcoin but wants privacy, so I just simply tell him that P2P transactions are the best way for that. Before the pandemic, I have witnessed some P2P transactions in various areas, where they are doing it with Ledger Nano S or non-custodial decentralized Bitcoin wallet. Both parties must agree to the terms, especially that you will remain an anonymous Bitcoin wallet holder.

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Quote from: yat97 on March 20, 2021, 12:10:15 PM

Yeah I've thought about peer to peer I've just been kind of worried about getting defrauded or something happening.

You do not have to (physically) trade directly with someone and go through the risk of sending first and waiting for your payment, there are P2P platforms which acts as intermediary (sort of an escrow). They protect you from the risk of fraud, ensure you're using a reputable and trustworthy website.

Quote from: yat97 on March 20, 2021, 12:10:15 PM

So the exchange can see where you sent monero, and from there, when you exchange monero for bitcoin even when done off from the exchange on another platform?

The blockchain is transparent and transactions can be linked, you'll also need another exchange to convert the monero to Bitcoin, further reducing privacy.

livingfree

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I agree about using mixers, they're one of the choice to make yourself anonymous.

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on March 20, 2021, 01:29:04 PM

I think using wasabi coinjoin this trust can be broken but it will cost you a price of course.

Yes, there's a fee of 0.003% per anonymity set.

https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/FAQ/FAQ-UseWasabi.html#coinjoin

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: ranochigo on March 20, 2021, 10:32:58 AM

Instead, I'll use a P2P method (slightly more risky but way more privacy) and skip the whole exchange part. Just use a mixer or CoinJoin to break/obfuscate the link and you'll be better.

I will do the same.
Buy bitcoin using p2p > send the coins to a mixer > Receive the coins from the mixer while using a tor connection

Never load the wallet without TOR connection.

There is always a point where you are going to trust the mixer/coinjoin service. I think using wasabi coinjoin this trust can be broken but it will cost you a price of course.

NeuroticFish

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I know 3 pretty good ways to get Bitcoin anonymously.
1. Mixers. Although it's unexpected by many, ChipMixer is for free (although paying some extra helps with extra privacy).
2. Sell or offer services directly for bitcoin. For example I've made translations and only the customer knows that address of mine.
3. Buying bitcoin P2P, just beware of scams (for example don't pay before getting at least one confirmation). Again, only the seller and maybe a trusted escrow will know the address.

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Quote from: yat97 on March 20, 2021, 10:35:51 AM

....
I'm thinking like on the safepal wallet. You can exchange crypto there, but there is no KYC.

Safepal has a Binance Dapp which is kinda good at first glance since it's non-custodial. The mobile app, however, is closed source so you can never tell if they're not collecting any information from you.

You can't be completely anonymous if your starting point is buying any crypto online using fiat.

LordShanken

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Anonymity and privacy goes hand in hand with Bitcoin. If there is breach in your anonymity then you are not dealing with bitcoin. With rise of bitcoin so many centralized institutes have also jumped into crypto market and they are destroying the concept of anonymity and privacy designed by Satoshi.

bassbity

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As far as I know, DEX provides more privacy that is very guarded, you only need to have an anonymous hardware wallet, without you using an email login. As for P2P, it will still involve your identity because it is still within the scope of the market, it is a little anonymous, but DEX is much more anonymous.

yat97

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Thanks for the replies. Mining is a no go for me due to not having the equiment and it becoming prohibitivly expensive.

But the bitcoin mixer ideas should work.

I've started out using bitcoin ATMs that dont require ID, just a number. But the fees are atrocious even for the cheapest ones I can find compared to online exchanges.

Yeah I've thought about peer to peer I've just been kind of worried about getting defrauded or something happening.

I'd figure even if you buy from an exchange, convert it to monero, or yes as someone pointed out, just buying monero to start with if that's possible, and sending it to then trade for bitcoin would be just as good as other methods.

" A footprint can be an address search on a block explorer, where you're revealing that you want to know the balance of that address to the block explorer and to your ISP."
Thanks for mentioning this. I may have don goofed already on that one.

Also... "even if the Monero Blockchain hides all the information, the exchange will have a user, mail, and IP for that transaction, so, that way isn't anonymous at all."

So the exchange can see where you sent monero, and from there, when you exchange monero for bitcoin even when done off from the exchange on another platform?

20kevin20

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Here's how I'd do it:

1. Purchase Bitcoin through an ATM or an exchange and mixing/CoinJoining the purchased funds. Main disadvantage of this option is that you risk having your face screenshotted by the ATM machine and the exchange will hold identifiable information of you.
2. Purchase BTC through Bisq. Main disadvantage is the little bit high fees.
3. Purchase BTC p2p face-to-face. Main disadvantage is personal safety. Also, for large sums, I would consider the person I'm conducting business with might be authority personnel.

If I had to choose among the 3 above, I'd opt for the 2nd or 3rd option. Using third parties means sharing personal information with them (and other parties) and I don't want to comply with that.

hatshepsut93

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The most anonymous way is to buy it with cash in person. But this is also quite risky, due to physical attacks. So if you want to go this way, you should be buying small amounts over some period of time from different sellers, and make sure that you aren't followed back to your home.

Any digital fiat payment will leave a trace, even in your example the fact that you bought crypto is already bad for your anonymity.

mk4

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1. Buy bitcoin from a peer-to-peer exchange such as HodlHodl[1] or LocalCryptos[2].
2. Coinjoin/mix the bitcoin through services such as Wasabi[3], Samourai Whirlpool[4], or ChipMixer[5]. (which is the "best" is subjective.

[1] https://hodlhodl.com/
[2] https://localcryptos.com/
[3] https://wasabiwallet.io/
[4] https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool
[5] https://chipmixer.com/

nightxglow

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I guess mining can be the way? You can mine your own bitcoin, and with that no one will know your identity. Or well maybe just like you said, go through some series of process, to get rid of your mark. But of course, it will be really complicated.
And I think, we don't need that much of anonymity in owning bitcoin, it's quite anonymous already, and I think the data is safe. Only if you don't purposely do that because you want to do bad things with it of course haha, doing it in the normal way is fine and safe enough already.

Topic: What's the most anonymous way to own bitcoin? - page 3. (Read 681 times)