When the US stock market goes down Bitcoin goes down - page 3.

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

Nope! Disagree.

The whole US economy is in crisis and so as to poor stock performance, and wait a minute bitcoin stands still 9K+ USD. I believe that is just a wave that occured for few times but it never relies on the stocks. I think we already had such discussion before and it point outs that this is indirect relation so sometimes it affects the crypto severely and other times it doesn't even move it a bit.

My disagreement is to the US stock thingie! I mean bitcoin is decentralised commodity and whole world trades it. It's like you comparing whole US market with rest of the world. That's lame.

Arkann

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One way or another, the cryptocurrency market and the stock market are very dependent on each other, because they are affected by the influence of competition, especially recently, when the cryptocurrency market is increasingly attracting investments, as well as potential participants in the stock market. but this is not the only factor because of which Bitcoin always reacts to the stock market.
and since another crisis is strangling the global economy today, the stock market and the cryptocurrency market also suffer from this. Although, according to experts, the cryptocurrency market copes much better with the consequences of the economic crisis.

coinfinger

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I am also watching bitcoin market is reacting in complete opposite direction of how USA stock markets are doing. Before this, I have observed bitcoin and gold are sailing on same direction most of the time but this time, gold is staying strong but bitcoin is still remaining range bounded which could be the reason investors are getting panic when the US market is not doing good. Overall we can say they cannot be one permanent trend for bitcoin markets.

In last 6 years gold did not show any big movements but bitcoin approximately gained 10 times growth in that same time frame. So, we cannot say bitcoin is falling into the category of alternative investment like gold. Gold and US stocks are known for reciprocally related but bitcoin is not having anything like that as of now, it seems.

Dart18

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It does affect the market of bitcoin.

But there is a question here.
How will you know which goes first?
Bitcoin market could go down anytime because of volatility. Will that mean the stock market will do so, afterward?

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

This might happen at times but this is not the case every time.
Both the markets are independent of each other and it's just the investors perception over the market that makes him to take out the investment from both the markets at the same time. This is not at the case with all people and this is why many times I have seen both the markets going in opposite direction.
Also, you will find very less instances when the US stock market and bitcoin increased together.
Both the markets behave in a different way at different times.

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader?

It is a good sign in some sense. Because this crypto space is having traders and and investors from Wall street and from other institutional fund managing houses. When a trader see a downfall on stocks they may react on everywhere regardless of the individual potential of different assets. This is just an assumption based on what happened some 3 to 4 years back and what is happening on crypto space against stock's movements.

People do call gold and silver as alternative instruments for stocks but I have seen gold prices are following index of big exchanges. It means when one or two stocks fall and rise that may not impact gold prices but when overall stock market index is fluctuating then gold prices do follows it.

When traders understand the ecosystem of bitcoins like its impacting and influencing factors then they not follow the same trend of stocks; they may switch to bitcoin when stocks not doing good and vice versa. But, when treat bitcoins similar to just another stock/ trading asset then experiencing same fluctuations of stocks may remain inevitable. But, it seems those institutional traders are having complete different approach on gold which must be the reason gold remains unaffected of US stocks.

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Quote from: cosmofly on June 16, 2020, 03:17:39 AM

Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

It was a panicked selling mood. is understandable because this is when the epidemic began to spread so people will not need to hold financial assets anymore. they will sell for a lot of cash so they can buy food. That is why when there is instability in the economy out there, the financial market will fluctuate so strongly. We are also investors and Bitcoin is just a financial asset, it will not escape panic selling.

The reason that there is a panic selling mood is because bitcoin is closeky tied to USD, my currency is basing its bitcoin prices on the value of USD, I do not think that it is something that we should worry about because markets bounce back and there will always be people that will be investing, just be thankful that bitcoin does not collapse, we are focusing too much on the problems that do not involve bitcoin too much.

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Quote from: BrewMaster on June 15, 2020, 09:50:18 AM

the only thing that has happened over the past 11 years is that this year after all this time we had a very gigantic drop in stock market and a lot of other markets then bitcoin dropped too.

That suggests short term correlation among all those markets. It doesn't suggest the drop was a random occurrence.

The Dow and S&P 500 actually have decent long term correlation with BTC. I have no idea why people try to assert there is no relationship at all. Just overlay the charts.

Quote from: BrewMaster on June 15, 2020, 09:50:18 AM

now if another market coincidentally dropped while bitcoin was doing its own thing you can't call that "bitcoin following that market"!

You can only call it a "coincidence" when something happens once or twice. BTCUSD and the S&P 500 are nearly identical from mid-February to present. For the last week as the stock market threatened to crash, BTC followed in lockstep, and also recovered in lockstep.

In my opinion it's obvious that if stocks go in the shitter, so will BTC.

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

It was a panicked selling mood. is understandable because this is when the epidemic began to spread so people will not need to hold financial assets anymore. they will sell for a lot of cash so they can buy food. That is why when there is instability in the economy out there, the financial market will fluctuate so strongly. We are also investors and Bitcoin is just a financial asset, it will not escape panic selling.

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Quote from: Gozie51 on June 15, 2020, 10:19:44 AM

I see it as just a matter of two things happening same day. The price of bitcoin has been falling after it got to $10,000. Bitcoin dropped last week Wednesday from $9,700 to almost $9100 and then got back up to $9,500 same day if I'm right. So I think I'm not linking it to stock market.

Both markets have their own strengths, and each market has different fluctuations, so it is generally not possible to compare both markets. I think the value of Bitcoin is unpredictable, and even if you are good at analytics, you can only guess 80% correctly. In my opinion, the stock market will often depend on external factors more because if there is news affecting the economy, the stock market will tend to decrease.

It's true! In the cryptocurrency market, it's considered "good" when you can predict 80%. That's such a high percentage of prediction! The stock market and the cryptocurrency market seem not the same as each other. However, they are all affected by the global economy! The cryptocurrency market is also harmed by the pandemic COVID-19 despite the fact that the pandemic gives people a chance to explore the cryptocurrency world!

The Cryptovator

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Stock markets and bitcoin or crypto-currency markets isn't related each other directly. But sometimes we might notice stock markets impacts on bitcoin price. Its probably due to panic, who know if investors are investing on both platforms. I believe bitcoin isn't out of global economic system, so when a part from global economy dumped then it would effect to other but not always.

Quote from: lillobo on June 15, 2020, 02:54:52 AM

Bitcoin is not apart of the economic system. The only thing is when it does crash those that invested in bitcoin will lose their investment.

I am not agree with you, I believe bitcoin is a part of global economic system since we are investing on it. Aren't all investors are a part of global economy and backed bitcoin by themselves. Actually we aren't losing bitcoin anyhow, just losing if you consider against USD inacese price dump. If you bought 1 bitcoin it will ever with you, we might say we are buying bitcoin instead of investing on bitcoin since there is no such as ROI platform.

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

You shouldnt really correlate Stock and Crypto market yet they do move in different way.There might be instances that they move out on the same manner but doesnt mean that
they are already connected.

If you do this for fundamental analysis then im sure that you would commit mistakes from time to time.As a trader, i didnt recognize this kind of correlation - maybe in some aspect or situation
but im not relying into these infos.

Always stick out on news that hovering on crypto space rather than minding yourself into other markets.

MrMojoRising26

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You would think the institutional investors wouldn't dump their holdings when stocks dump. So that the world would see that bitcoin is not closely correlated with stocks in order for people to believe that, and buy bitcoin as a hedge. Unless they want everyone to believe they are correlated so they can buy back cheaper. There is some sort of manipulation going on there it doesn't make sense

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

This is actually something related to investor psychology. While all world markets are declining, the decline of crypto money markets will be somewhat abnormal. That is why world markets and the United States stock exchanges in general decline, while the value of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies declines. The main reason for this, as you mentioned, is the investor psychology. It is quite normal for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to drop in price as long as cash is appreciated. For this reason, prices decline in all world markets, while crypto markets follow these markets.

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

That was exactly the opposite back in the day, when the us stock market went down the bitcoin market went up. The reason why this used to be like that and why it changed is both a good one but also a sad one at the same time. It used to be like that because there was no wall street type of investment people around, most of us were here because of the tech and we love tech but also we hate banks and we hate governments trying to control everyone as well.

It changed because eventually wall street people started to go into bitcoin world and started to buy in billions which is good because price moved up a lot but at the same time sad because now we are working together with the people we hated and started this. In any case now because of them being here they move according to us stock markets and that affects bitcoin as well.

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Quote from: Gozie51 on June 15, 2020, 10:19:44 AM

I see it as just a matter of two things happening same day. The price of bitcoin has been falling after it got to $10,000. Bitcoin dropped last week Wednesday from $9,700 to almost $9100 and then got back up to $9,500 same day if I'm right. So I think I'm not linking it to stock market.

Despite the fact that digital coins are often credited with the status of a protective asset, during a period of panic and mass sales in the market, they fall along with everything. Both markets - crypto and stock - are showing a fall after Trump's announcement of new sanctions against China. In addition, the United States is afraid of the second wave of coronavirus, which also causes panic among investors and affects exchange rate fluctuations. Also the rate of price decline indicates that the initial downward movement was strengthened by cascading liquidation of long positions on cryptocurrency exchanges.

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I see it as just a matter of two things happening same day. The price of bitcoin has been falling after it got to $10,000. Bitcoin dropped last week Wednesday from $9,700 to almost $9100 and then got back up to $9,500 same day if I'm right. So I think I'm not linking it to stock market.

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we can not make that conclusion because we don't have enough evidence to support that.

the only thing that has happened over the past 11 years is that this year after all this time we had a very gigantic drop in stock market and a lot of other markets then bitcoin dropped too.

looking at today's price i don't see any different trend than the past 2 months starting from April. there is ups and downs with an overall rise and right now we are stuck in this price level. we had the rise for the first 10 days of June where price reached $9999 till June 10-11 and then it reversed down and price reached $9000 today. then it will reverse back up and reach $9999 again .... this will go on until a breakout happens and we reach $12k.

now if another market coincidentally dropped while bitcoin was doing its own thing you can't call that "bitcoin following that market"!

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You always have to keep in mind that trading, whether in stocks or in the Crytpo market, is highly automated and mostly done by bots (I'm not talking about private trading bots when someone installs Gecko on a Raspberry Pi Wink

).
These bots react to the smallest signals in the respective markets and try to sell shares as fast as possible or to buy them when the trend is positive.

I assume that the bots today are on the move in many markets at the same time and trade the same way. If a bot sells shares because the Dow Jones falls, crypto assets are also sold - and vice versa. So the markets have nothing to do with each other per se, but once they are used by the same buyers and sellers, their actions and reactions are similar/identical.

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Quote from: greentech2 on June 15, 2020, 01:36:10 AM

Today, the US stock future goes down near 900 points then the bitcoin prices goes down too. It happened the same in March 2020 when the US stock market goes down then Bitcoin goes down $4500. Any one knows the psychology or the mood of the trader? Thanks.

More like a coincidence. There is no direct relation the crypto market into US stocks perhaps this is just a dejavu. Stocks are more prone to going down while bitcoin is noted as volatile speculative asset which point down to its up and down. Not really shocked with this price drop.

Also if we check the charts you can noticed that the trwns line for bearish has been break so there is no point comparing to stock as the result have been predicted already.

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