Where are all the bitcoins? | Bitcointalksearch.org

timeshareafrica

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Quote from: Elwar on March 04, 2013, 04:05:40 PM

When I was doing the estimating it was 6% traded on Gox about a year ago.

This is the reason that the price can move so quickly one way or the other. This "small" volume compared to all Bitcoins determines the dollar value.

You do not need to invest $1 per actual Bitcoin for the value to go up $1 in price.

But this small volume will not be for long.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

When I was doing the estimating it was 6% traded on Gox about a year ago.

This is the reason that the price can move so quickly one way or the other. This "small" volume compared to all Bitcoins determines the dollar value.

You do not need to invest $1 per actual Bitcoin for the value to go up $1 in price.

timeshareafrica

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[/quote]

The sound of an audiophile-grade record player will always trump a MP3 player (least go for a lossless player).
[/quote]

I agree, I just have difficulties to pack 40 Megabyte of records in my backpack.

zoinky

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Quote from: timeshareafrica on March 03, 2013, 01:28:51 PM

I think few people are just waiting until they are able to buy a house and cars with BTC , I am not going to change my BTC back into FIAT, WHY?
It is like changing your Mp3 player into a old record player.
I am waisting my fiat now and once it is gone I am starting to use BTC

The sound of an audiophile-grade record player will always trump a MP3 player (least go for a lossless player).

timeshareafrica

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I think few people are just waiting until they are able to buy a house and cars with BTC , I am not going to change my BTC back into FIAT, WHY?
It is like changing your Mp3 player into a old record player.
I am waisting my fiat now and once it is gone I am starting to use BTC

xxjs

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Quote from: shkiser on March 03, 2013, 10:34:16 AM

Is it true that those holding bitcoins are actually driving the price down, and those spending, and making several transactions a day are actually moving the price up?

No no. Volume of trading does not tell anything about price. Low volume only says that the actors are content with their current holding levels (of bitcoins, of fiat and of different warez). When peoples valuations change, we will have trades.

Anyway, new users hearing about bitcoins and wanting to have some, is an example of change of valuations.

shkiser

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Is it true that those holding bitcoins are actually driving the price down, and those spending, and making several transactions a day are actually moving the price up?

wachtwoord

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Then that is likely the answer to your initial question.

Q: Where are all the Bitcoins?
A: Volume does not imply the portion of all Bitcoins being traded. Instead is highly like the frequency of trade on individual Bitcoins (or portions of Bitcoins) is lower due to the lower amount of professional Forex traders.

rebuilder

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Wachtwoord: Back and forth, of course. Just like with bitcoin.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: rebuilder on March 03, 2013, 06:01:40 AM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 02, 2013, 03:37:57 PM

So 2% of the complete currency is being traded on forex exchanges daily. Isn't that more than with fiat currencies?

Forex volumes are very high. How high as a percentage of money supply depends on how you count.

http://goldseek.com/news/2009/1-12mh/11.png

If you compare money in circulation to day forex volume, you get a ratio somewhere in the region of 1:1. I'm sure that's quite inaccurate, but 2% traded daily doesn't appear to be all that much.

Of course, you might as whether the forex market with its HFT bots and complexities is really very sane to begin with.

Haha, well even more fun then because I don't know how these figures make sense. Can it be that only 0.5% is traded but it's traded back and forward 200 times a day or something? Because to me that would be 0.5% of the circulation but volume would by 100%.

100% is not possible for Euros at least because I am holding some in my hand right now Wink

(and guessing more people are)

piramida

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but forex market does not trade actual printed money (unlike bitcoin market). they deal in imaginary debt money and there's much more than 4 trillion of those around - hundreds of trillions, even if you don't count various derivatives.

rebuilder

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Quote from: wachtwoord on March 02, 2013, 03:37:57 PM

So 2% of the complete currency is being traded on forex exchanges daily. Isn't that more than with fiat currencies?

Forex volumes are very high. How high as a percentage of money supply depends on how you count.

http://goldseek.com/news/2009/1-12mh/11.png

If you compare money in circulation to day forex volume, you get a ratio somewhere in the region of 1:1. I'm sure that's quite inaccurate, but 2% traded daily doesn't appear to be all that much.

Of course, you might as whether the forex market with its HFT bots and complexities is really very sane to begin with.

zebedee

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Quote from: ajk on March 02, 2013, 03:31:57 PM

I think that once the price stays about 30 for another month or so people will begin to accept the fact that this is the new price and more and more bigger players will buy at the current price considering that only big players will be able to afford it,

Huh? One can always afford BTC. One just gets less of them than one used to.

piramida

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Quote from: wachtwoord on March 02, 2013, 03:37:57 PM

So 2% of the complete currency is being traded on forex exchanges daily. Isn't that more than with fiat currencies?

This. 2% is actually a large percentage to change hands daily. That means that 100% of all coins change hands in under two months. Yes, I know it's the same coins going there and back, but it does not matter, it *could be* new coins every time, what matters is that the market would be able to deal with it.

oakpacific

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1. People do trade in large sum, just not everyday.
2. Non-exchange bitcoin distributing organizations such as Bitinstant, Coinbase, Tangible Cryptography etc, are holding a large portion of it.
3. The early adopters have mostly cashed out http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-year?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= , many of the remaining big holders got them at n-dollar range, I think at least they are not seeing the profit margin they want to see yet.

shkiser

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As long as I can find the bitcoins to buy. Thats one of the largest problems so far, which I am working thru now.

notme

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on March 02, 2013, 05:15:12 PM

Quote from: shkiser on March 02, 2013, 03:59:52 PM

or keep investing into a product I turn to cash, and buying more bitcoins..? One things for sure I have seen my USD grow, but Im getting a lot less btc for those USD now..

You have no control over the direction of the bitcoin exchange rate. If it stops rising (like it did for many months until June 2012) or heads the other direction, you not only don't earn anything you lose value.

Some traders are good (or lucky) at determining a move up or down and can profit by actively trading it and making money when it goes their way, but everyone else holding coins sees declining purchasing power when the rally ends.

So,if you have an approach that consistently generates profits, that is much more valuable than seeking speculative gains that you have no control over. You might find excess USD profits make a good way to add to a BTC position. But remember that revenue and profit-generating ventures aren't always possible to build or find so if speculating on bitcoins comes at the expense of that venture, that might not be the wisest turn to make.

Great points. I would only add that you can't know if you are good or just lucky until it turns out you were just lucky Wink

.

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: shkiser on March 02, 2013, 03:59:52 PM

or keep investing into a product I turn to cash, and buying more bitcoins..? One things for sure I have seen my USD grow, but Im getting a lot less btc for those USD now..

You have no control over the direction of the bitcoin exchange rate. If it stops rising (like it did for many months until June 2012) or heads the other direction, you not only don't earn anything you lose value.

Some traders are good (or lucky) at determining a move up or down and can profit by actively trading it and making money when it goes their way, but everyone else holding coins sees declining purchasing power when the rally ends.

So,if you have an approach that consistently generates profits, that is much more valuable than seeking speculative gains that you have no control over. You might find excess USD profits make a good way to add to a BTC position. But remember that revenue and profit-generating ventures aren't always possible to build or find so if speculating on bitcoins comes at the expense of that venture, that might not be the wisest turn to make.

ajk

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Quote from: shkiser on March 02, 2013, 03:59:52 PM

I spend my bitcoins as soon as I get them, and Im constantly turning a profit on them. I sell a real life product for bitcoins, invest those bitcoins in additional real life products, which I sell for a profit, and turn that profit into bitcoins, which I continue to buy real life products.. Does this make sense? Is there any better way to do this? Should I just hold onto my bitcoins and watch their value grow, or keep investing into a product I turn to cash, and buying more bitcoins..? One things for sure I have seen my USD grow, but Im getting a lot less btc for those USD now..

At this current time I have no good advice whether to buy or sell, I am not going to say the price is high because obviously its not people are still buying and the price is still above 30 even after 2 gargantuan dumps,

its going to take more time to say whether or not its good to buy an hold now considering that in order to double your money it would have to leap from 34 to 68,

those who are crying definitely missed out on the amazing buying opportunities which was last year and pretty much anytime up until this point and time you would have profited,

only time will really tell what bitcoin is going to do but if it follows the trend it has, Tuesdays should be a nice green candle,

shkiser

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I spend my bitcoins as soon as I get them, and Im constantly turning a profit on them. I sell a real life product for bitcoins, invest those bitcoins in additional real life products, which I sell for a profit, and turn that profit into bitcoins, which I continue to buy real life products.. Does this make sense? Is there any better way to do this? Should I just hold onto my bitcoins and watch their value grow, or keep investing into a product I turn to cash, and buying more bitcoins..? One things for sure I have seen my USD grow, but Im getting a lot less btc for those USD now..

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