Where did Satoshi Nakamoto ever compared Bitcoin to gold or digital gold?

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Quote from: witcher_sense on September 08, 2020, 09:10:46 AM

Quote from: ytrezq on September 08, 2020, 02:37:57 AM

Lot of proponents Bitcoin are favoring the gold standard that even the ecb acknowlwedge that Bitcoin has its root in the gold standard.

I would say that ideas behind bitcoin are mostly based on works of Austrian school ecomomists. They were advocating for a free market for money in which best money is being chosen by market participants meaning supply and demand are main drivers in such market. Due to drawbacks of gold I mentioned in my previous post, it cannot survive on a free market and will be quickly shut down or seized by central banks and powerful governments. Bitcoin is better money than gold, because it can be easily protected from violent seizure.

That s what Satoshi thought and claimed it would provide anonymity. That was until block explorers. Once you know who it s just a matter to arrestat him/her until he complies with sizure. Maybe Zcash will do it one day if it gets better adoption. It s the only cryptocurrency with zero knowlwedge proofs.

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Quote from: BrewMaster on September 07, 2020, 12:15:13 PM

Quote from: ytrezq on September 07, 2020, 11:38:43 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why compare? Bitcoin is a unique asset. Gold, too. Why compare them to each other?

Because someone is arguing the scarcity of the Bitcoin is not on purpose and thus Bitcoin was never designed to replace fiat one day.

scarcity is not going to prevent bitcoin from being used by every human on earth as a currency because scarcity mainly means that bitcoin has a clear cap on its supply and a clear predefined supply production that is not going to change like the way fiat does on the whim of the government.

but at the same time i have never read anywhere that Satoshi claimed that bitcoin is to replace fiat though.

That s the debate with the op in my language thread. Because scarcity means no real credit system, the point that fiat and their negative rates will remain the most wanted things for business and that bitcoin will only stay at a minor role.

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Quote from: ytrezq on September 08, 2020, 02:37:57 AM

Lot of proponents Bitcoin are favoring the gold standard that even the ecb acknowlwedge that Bitcoin has its root in the gold standard.

I would say that ideas behind bitcoin are mostly based on works of Austrian school ecomomists. They were advocating for a free market for money in which best money is being chosen by market participants meaning supply and demand are main drivers in such market. Due to drawbacks of gold I mentioned in my previous post, it cannot survive on a free market and will be quickly shut down or seized by central banks and powerful governments. Bitcoin is better money than gold, because it can be easily protected from violent seizure.

ytrezq

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Quote from: ?? on ??

since I know bitcoin until now I still haven't found a position to compare bitcoin with gold. clear difference between bitcoin and gold. in terms of mining, the transactions are different.

Disagree on that point that bitcoin was never claimed to be digital gold.

wanted sliter

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Satoshi has never compared bitcoin to gold. Satoshi just said that bitcoins are computer mined and peer-to-peer transactions.
People mistakenly believe that mining makes Bitcoin as valuable as mining gold. Miners are just decoding to create more bitcoins and validating the sent transactions. Bitcoin has a one-time payment value and cannot be fraudulently valued bitcoin's greatest value.

ytrezq

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Quote from: MCobian on September 08, 2020, 03:32:17 AM

In my opinion there is no point in comparing Bitcoin with Gold, because both have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Investments in both of them are the right choice, I don't know if Satoshi Nakamoto has ever compared Bitcoin and Gold.
What is certain is that Satoshi Nakamoto's goal in creating Bitcoin was not to beat Gold, but to provide a payment alternative
besides fiat.

He said however that Bitcoin is better than gold because gold is not practical to be used as a payment system.

I agree with that. This was the reason we initially had fiat pegged to gold.

And like fiat pegged to gold this isn t rejecting gold but rather a different manner to use gold.

shoreno

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Quote from: MCobian on September 08, 2020, 03:32:17 AM

, I don't know if Satoshi Nakamoto has ever compared Bitcoin and Gold.
What is certain is that Satoshi Nakamoto's goal in creating Bitcoin was not to beat Gold, but to provide a payment alternative
besides fiat.

the only way to tell if to look for satoshi nakamotos old threads in this forum if ever he compare btc to gold . he wont lie to us or he wont hide it because he already created btc but he also created btc for a different reason .

Quote from: ytrezq on September 06, 2020, 09:57:46 AM

I m sure to recall a quote from Satoshi stating Bitcoin is digital gold which was used several years ago

i see so this is the truth . satoshi is maybe a fanboy of gold and he get inspiration of creating btc in gold based on his speech .

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In my opinion there is no point in comparing Bitcoin with Gold, because both have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Investments in both of them are the right choice, I don't know if Satoshi Nakamoto has ever compared Bitcoin and Gold.
What is certain is that Satoshi Nakamoto's goal in creating Bitcoin was not to beat Gold, but to provide a payment alternative
besides fiat.

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Quote from: ytrezq on September 06, 2020, 09:57:46 AM

I m confronted to someone who states that Satoshi Nakamoto never compared Bitcoin to gold in the monnetary sense (not about mining).
However, I m sure to recall a quote from Satoshi stating Bitcoin is digital gold which was used several years ago in the debate of Bitcoin vs Bitcoin cash as an argument that Bitcoin is a store of value and not a meant of payment.
I m failing to find it again. The only thing I found is about Bitcoin mining, but this isn t in the meaning I need to prove.

Does it really matter if he compares it to gold or digital gold? What matters is bitcoin is decentralized. So what Satoshi thinks about bitcoin doesn't/(shouldn't) matter at all since he doesn't control bitcoin or is the leader of "bitcoin". What matters is how we "all" consider bitcoin to be. If what Satoshi think about bitcoin is going to affect how we see bitcoin, then is it truly "decentralized" since someones opinion is highly affecting the overall picture of bitcoin?
Bitcoin itself is unique. There is no need to compare it with gold or other valuable things.

ytrezq

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Quote from: witcher_sense on September 08, 2020, 02:14:32 AM

Satoshi Nakamoto didn't compare Bitcoin to digital gold, because he knew perfectly how gold standard had fallen. Despite the fact that gold has credible monetary properties and served as medium of exchange for thousands of years, it also has severe flaws, it could be easily confiscated by authorities and could become entirely centralized. Due to its poor portability and divisibility, it couldn't serve as universal money for long. Banks took control over people's savings and gave them cut paper instead. If Satoshi had compared bitcoin to gold, it would have undermined reputation of bitcoin. Bitcoin would never succeded. Bitcoin is not digital gold, it is a completely new paradigm, programmable money that has no drawbacks of gold.

That doesn t means anything. Lot of proponents Bitcoin are favoring the gold standard that even the ecb acknowlwedge that Bitcoin has its root in the gold standard. I m thinking he didn t had the idea of soft perging a digital currency in a fully decentrlized and trustless manner (despite me finding a way without much thinking).

Though Satoshi bought his domain names to a company proposing using egold. A currency pegged to gold. Bitcoin born when egold was collapsing because the middleman was being charged for money laundering.

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Satoshi Nakamoto didn't compare Bitcoin to digital gold, because he knew perfectly how gold standard had fallen. Despite the fact that gold has credible monetary properties and served as medium of exchange for thousands of years, it also has severe flaws, it could be easily confiscated by authorities and could become entirely centralized. Due to its poor portability and divisibility, it couldn't serve as universal money for long. Banks took control over people's savings and gave them cut paper instead. If Satoshi had compared bitcoin to gold, it would have undermined reputation of bitcoin. Bitcoin would never succeded. Bitcoin is not digital gold, it is a completely new paradigm, programmable money that has no drawbacks of gold.

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Quote from: ytrezq on September 06, 2020, 09:57:46 AM

I m confronted to someone who states that Satoshi Nakamoto never compared Bitcoin to gold in the monnetary sense (not about mining).
However, I m sure to recall a quote from Satoshi stating Bitcoin is digital gold which was used several years ago in the debate of Bitcoin vs Bitcoin cash as an argument that Bitcoin is a store of value and not a meant of payment.
I m failing to find it again. The only thing I found is about Bitcoin mining, but this isn t in the meaning I need to prove.

Satoshi had an account on this forum.Have you ever checked his posts?Maybe you will find something there.
Anyway,trying to prove a point while arguing with someone online is a waste of time.
All the BTC vs.BCH debate looks pointless nowadays,because Bitcoin cash/BSV are serving the exact same purpose as Bitcoin Core-they are a store of value and an investment asset,which means that BCH/BSV failed to become a real currency,that's being used for daily purchases.Which means,that BCH/BSV fans can't prove their point that BTC is "digital gold",while the forked "Bitcoin" is an actual currency.

Fundamentals Of

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Quote from: bitmover on September 07, 2020, 10:50:37 PM

-snip-

Thank you very much for all the information. They proved useful in proving that Wei Dai was a cypherpunk and that certain roots of Bitcoin could be traced to the cypherpunk movement. Anything more than that couldn't be extracted from these and are considered assumptions.

hotwheels798

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Well we heard about this word " Bitcoin mining " and "Gold mining". Till now we cannot figure out how much gold is reserverd in the earth. The mining process is kind of expensive that's why the ratio of mining vs demand is comparatively less. On the otherhand bitcoin is limited . No-one cannot generate or own bitcoin like a private property except Satoshi Nokamoto . And after some interval of years the reward of mining is getting less , because of supply and demand. That's why Bitcoin is a Digital Gold. And i heard about a news in the year 2019 in every social media that to ensure bitcoin nd dogecoin code will be safe , these codes will be stored under under the ground in a Island.

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on September 07, 2020, 09:05:12 AM

I'd rather not conclude that Satoshi was a cypherpunk.

You should.

This the first reference in the bitcoin whitepaper:

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on September 07, 2020, 09:05:12 AM

Neither would I assume that a cypherpunk is automatically an anarchist.

You should also.

Bitcoin is intrinsic part of the cypherpunk movement. Take a look at wikipedia Cypherpunk page for example:

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk
Legacy
Cypherpunk achievements would later also be used on the Canadian e-wallet, the MintChip, and the creation of bitcoin.

I just gave you some information, not assumptions.

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Quote from: BrewMaster on September 07, 2020, 11:31:39 AM

i don't think Satoshi has ever compared bitcoin with anything. there are only hints at other payment systems just to say how they work rather than compare bitcoin with them, there were also hints at gold just because people kept talking about it and the term "mining" and the "limited supply" obviously raises such discussions.
anything else Satoshi has said were in respond to someone. for example someone may have compared it with gold and Satoshi made a comment on that.
the examples posted above are also this way.

Even if satoshi only compared Bitcoin to gold/gold mining as response to a question of person he did compared it as a answer. Obviously in the whitepaper we won't see any kind of comparison from Bitcoin to gold as Bitcoim was originally made as a payment solution removing the need of a middleman. But it was inevitable for Bitcoin to be compared to gold as there is “mining” involve in both assets, see my first post above to see how satoshi directly compared gold mining to Bitcoin mining and how they are the same.

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Quote from: ytrezq on September 07, 2020, 11:38:43 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why compare? Bitcoin is a unique asset. Gold, too. Why compare them to each other?

Because someone is arguing the scarcity of the Bitcoin is not on purpose and thus Bitcoin was never designed to replace fiat one day.

scarcity is not going to prevent bitcoin from being used by every human on earth as a currency because scarcity mainly means that bitcoin has a clear cap on its supply and a clear predefined supply production that is not going to change like the way fiat does on the whim of the government.

but at the same time i have never read anywhere that Satoshi claimed that bitcoin is to replace fiat though.

ytrezq

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Why compare? Bitcoin is a unique asset. Gold, too. Why compare them to each other?

Because someone is arguing the scarcity of the Bitcoin is not on purpose and thus Bitcoin was never designed to replace fiat one day.

BrewMaster

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i don't think Satoshi has ever compared bitcoin with anything. there are only hints at other payment systems just to say how they work rather than compare bitcoin with them, there were also hints at gold just because people kept talking about it and the term "mining" and the "limited supply" obviously raises such discussions.
anything else Satoshi has said were in respond to someone. for example someone may have compared it with gold and Satoshi made a comment on that.
the examples posted above are also this way.

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You know what op, I really do not think that it matters that much to prove anything. Creation of bitcoin is good enough already, too bad though, satoshi couldn't stand with it and left it together with the responsibilities to other people. But despite so, the fact that he created bitcoin is enough reason to admire him and respect his decisions and views.

And as what I remember in reading some of the words of satoshi, I never once seen or understood a sense of hate for the government itself. I mean, if any, I think he meant the taxes or the manipulation made by some governments or its officials for this reason. Bitcoin's creation, the way I understand satoshi's words, maybe an effort to help give people another option for their assets; to give an option in which they are in control.

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