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Topic: Where do you see the BTC-USD exchange rate in month? (Read 6289 times)

full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Ussually I don't do monitoring at all..but  recently I found out for myself a platform with a convinient toolbar..you can choose the best rate for you among suggested ..bestrate if anyone needs it

There is mess around alll these exchangins platforms ..I didn't understand anything..What is the best service with min fee, guys?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Ussually I don't do monitoring at all..but  recently I found out for myself a platform with a convinient toolbar..you can choose the best rate for you among suggested ..bestrate if anyone needs it
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 252
The cost of gold in ounces is a comparison of two currencies. If gold costs $1400/oz it could mean that...

A) people really value gold, or there is very little of it
B) people don't value USD, or there is a lot of it
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1364
Armory Developer
you need to reread my post smart guy....
Oh I got it. you need to reinterpret my amusement  Cool

Comon man, can't you get angry n stuff, i was hoping for a flame war  Roll Eyes
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 11
you need to reread my post smart guy....
Oh I got it. you need to reinterpret my amusement  Cool
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1364
Armory Developer
yet all of their effort combined for a century could not drive the price of gold to $1400/oz.
LOL


you need to reread my post smart guy....
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
yet all of their effort combined for a century could not drive the price of gold to $1400/oz.
LOL


member
Activity: 112
Merit: 11
yet all of their effort combined for a century could not drive the price of gold to $1400/oz.
LOL
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1364
Armory Developer
What's this obsession people have with the concept that a commodity can't hold value unless some merchants endorse it? If the price of gold was determined by its actual use in the industry it would barely be worth over $50/oz. There are countless merchants that will buy and sell gold under various forms yet all of their effort combined for a century could not drive the price of gold to $1400/oz.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
The intrinsic value of a bitcoin is zero, that is where it will go with no iron hand.

Arguably, the only things that have intrinsic value to humans are the those which are required to survive. Everything beyond that is subjective. You seem to favor gold. What is it's intrinsic value to a human being? I can live my entire life without ever needing gold. There is no iron hand giving value to gold. Yet it has properties that make it useful for many things and thus people assign value to it. The same can be said for bitcoins. Because you do not see their value, or because no state is enforcing their value, does not make them worthless to all.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
EDIT:  Also, I think you might be right about the future price of Bitcoins, and as a show of friendship, I'll pay you triple ($.03) your quote for any of those worthless bitcoins you might have.  This is a limited time offer, however, so hit me before I come to my senses!

Will you still provide this offer 10 years from now?  The intrinsic value of a bitcoin is zero, that is where it will go with no iron hand.

It's a limited term offer.  Jump on it before I take my meds!

BTW  The intrinsic value of every fiat currency on Earth is very near zero, and ever approaching that value in the market itself.  So I would extend my offer to $ and Euros as well.  I'll gladly pay $.05 for every Euro that you possess or .05 Euros for every one of those US Federal Reserve Notes.
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
EDIT:  Also, I think you might be right about the future price of Bitcoins, and as a show of friendship, I'll pay you triple ($.03) your quote for any of those worthless bitcoins you might have.  This is a limited time offer, however, so hit me before I come to my senses!

Will you still provide this offer 10 years from now?  The intrinsic value of a bitcoin is zero, that is where it will go with no iron hand.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
I still don't believe you can open a store in the United States and accept euros, gold, Canadian dollars, bitcoin, as payment or competing currency.

Well, they you would be wrong.  Not only is it possible, it's actually done.  It's not common, but a European can offer Euros to a vendor, and the vendor has the right to accept foreign currency, but not the requirement, as settlement of debts.  What is questionable, is whether or not a business with public access can quote prices in foreign currencies; but I'd bet that McDonald's isn't interested in a menu board that displays prices in Euros anyway.

BTW, the founder of the Liberty Dollar was recently convicted of some kind of fraud; but none of the associated businesses that accepted the Liberty Dollar could be charged with anything, nor none that sold same without advertising that fact.  Because a private business could accept payment in live chickens, if they desired.  Private local currencies such as the Ithica Hour depend upon this for their ongoing existance.

EDIT:  Also, I think you might be right about the future price of Bitcoins, and as a show of friendship, I'll pay you triple ($.03) your quote for any of those worthless bitcoins you might have.  This is a limited time offer, however, so hit me before I come to my senses!
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
I still don't believe you can open a store in the United States and accept euros, gold, Canadian dollars, bitcoin, as payment or competing currency.  If you could the dollar would be gone tomorrow and everybody would be collecting welfare and doing their real exchange in bitcoin.   Are there any addresses in the United States that accept bitcoin and have no fear of being raided?  I do think bitcoin goofed, if there is no exchange for a commodity, why would anyone use it.  They could have backed bitcoin by 50 pre-1981 pennies, and sold the 21 million off, which imho would always give a merchant to the coin thus it would always have value.  I bet bitcoin goes to $0.01.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
I highly doubt that, if you live in California you can't accept Euros, silver for payment.  If you could no one would use the dollar.

It's true. From the treasury site:

Quote
The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
...
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services.


Case law, however, does exist that basicly means that if US$ were offered in settlement of debts, but were rejected because of a contract that required some other form of settlement, any court will hold that debt as void.

So, in practice, any business that allows a customer to acrue a debt first (as an example, a sit-down resturant, where you eat first and pay on the way out) must accept US$ as payment of that debt, even if they had a huge sign on the way in that said, "No gold or silver, no service".

I've used this to my advantage in the past, as I don't use credit cards.  I had reserved a particular tool from Home Depot's tool shop, and went in to rent the item.  Advance reservation is free, unless you cancel, so they didn't ask for anything more than my name and address on the phone when I called.  I went to pick it up, and they asked for a credit card for the security deposit.  The clerk insisted that he couldn't rent me the tool without a credit card, and I said that I was certain that his computer system did have a cash deposit option in theer somewhere, because that was the law.  He ended up calling his manager, and after going through the whole ting again, the manager called some kind of corporate office, who proceeded to tell him how to access that part of the POS system.

I left with the tool, and did not need a card despite their insistance that only a credit card was acceptable.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Indeed. Canadian dollars are commonly used as far south as Seattle, and USD at least as far north as Vancouver (maybe farther). Quite commonplace.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 252
I highly doubt that, if you live in California you can't accept Euros, silver for payment.  If you could no one would use the dollar.

It's true. From the treasury site:

Quote
The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
...
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services.

The dollar is just more convenient than euros. Anyway, it's not like euros are any less fiat...
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
This is incorrect. The U.S. has legal tender laws, which enshrine the U.S. dollar as the official currency of the government. That means precisely two things:

1) Taxes are paid in USD
2) Courts will enforce contracts in USD

That's it. As a merchant, you are free to accept any payment method you want. As a creditor, your debts will only be honored by courts if you allow your debtors to repay in USD.

I highly doubt that, if you live in California you can't accept Euros, silver for payment.  If you could no one would use the dollar.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 252
1. Because gold is backed by gold.  If every bitcoin was backed by an ounce of gold.  Then it could be exchanged to any currency for the going rate of gold.  If it was backed by gold you could get your gold back.

How can something be backed by itself? Gold is "backed" by the belief that one will be able to exchange gold for the things one needs. Bitcoin is exactly the same.

2. According to the chart the bitcoin is presently inflating 50% in 2011, 33% in 2012 and 13% in 2013. But assume all 21 million are out, so what if you are out of the loop why use it.

There is a finite amount of gold on the earth. Is the continued mining of gold necessary for it to be useful as a currency? No.

The only reason to use it is if merchants demanded payment in it.  So I guess I answered my own question, it all depends on whether merchants want to accept it as payment.   Thus, Exxon Mobil tomorrow could demand payment in bitcoin.  But it would only be valid for products that can be mailed or labor over the internet. Thus to make bitcoin successful you need merchants.

Yes, this is correct. The thing that makes Bitcoin worth anything is that others are willing to accept it in exchange for goods.

All merchants in the USA are required to only accept dollars.

This is incorrect. The U.S. has legal tender laws, which enshrine the U.S. dollar as the official currency of the government. That means precisely two things:

1) Taxes are paid in USD
2) Courts will enforce contracts in USD

That's it. As a merchant, you are free to accept any payment method you want. As a creditor, your debts will only be honored by courts if you allow your debtors to repay in USD.
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
1. Neither is gold.

2. Because Bitcoin is becoming more popular, while U.S. government continues to debase the dollar.

1. Because gold is backed by gold.  If every bitcoin was backed by an ounce of gold.  Then it could be exchanged to any currency for the going rate of gold.  If it was backed by gold you could get your gold back.

2. According to the chart the bitcoin is presently inflating 50% in 2011, 33% in 2012 and 13% in 2013. But assume all 21 million are out, so what if you are out of the loop why use it.  The only reason to use it is if merchants demanded payment in it.  So I guess I answered my own question, it all depends on whether merchants want to accept it as payment.   Thus, Exxon Mobil tomorrow could demand payment in bitcoin.  But it would only be valid for products that can be mailed or labor over the internet. Thus to make bitcoin successful you need merchants.  All merchants in the USA are required to only accept dollars.
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