Where is the value reflected? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Pejoh Asu

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Quote from: Ruvi2000sew on August 23, 2021, 01:30:55 PM

I believe we are overlooking the fact that the more these institutions become involved with cryptocurrencies, the more vulnerable they will become to manipulation. What we've learnt over the last six months is that cryptocurrencies require security from someone like Elon Musk, who manipulates the market through social media while walking around freely. I feel that stronger restrictions and better investing practices are required so that cryptocurrencies such as bitcoins do not become a tool.

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I think on the contrary, the more parties involved in bitcoin the concept of decentralization will work effectively, the price that occurs is natural because a large market cap is difficult to manipulate and of course this will make us more optimistic about the future of bitcoin.

Kimonoe

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Quote from: Pejoh Asu on August 24, 2021, 01:22:03 AM

Quote from: Ruvi2000sew on August 23, 2021, 01:30:55 PM

I believe we are overlooking the fact that the more these institutions become involved with cryptocurrencies, the more vulnerable they will become to manipulation. What we've learnt over the last six months is that cryptocurrencies require security from someone like Elon Musk, who manipulates the market through social media while walking around freely. I feel that stronger restrictions and better investing practices are required so that cryptocurrencies such as bitcoins do not become a tool.

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I think on the contrary, the more parties involved in bitcoin the concept of decentralization will work effectively, the price that occurs is natural because a large market cap is difficult to manipulate and of course this will make us more optimistic about the future of bitcoin.

right, the more bitcoin adoption, let alone legalized by the government, this will make bitcoin fluctuations not as big as they are today. but when that time comes, of course the price of bitcoin is very high compared to today. need extra power to manipulate the market when adoption is evenly distributed across the globe

amishmanish

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Quote from: LeGaulois on August 10, 2021, 10:34:00 AM

What you seem to forget is despite the fact we can see more and more shops starting to accept Bitcoin as a payment mean (at a low rate speed to me). Only a few of them actually keep the amount in crypto. Surely less than 10%. All others convert the coins to their national currency (and it's often done automatically).
To increase their sales is the only true motivation they have, it's not because they believe in the market. If a day Bitcoin goes down to 10 bucks and people abandon it, they will abandon it too, and even surely faster than the bitcoiners themselves.

Adoption of Bitcoin from user sides is enough. Does it matter if the merchant converts it to Fiat immediately? Any smart merchant would realize that he is much better off keeping part of his income in BTC rather than converting it all. The benefits of BTC are understood at an individual level first. So, even though boosting sales can be the motive, the fact that this makes merchants familiar with Bitcoin is itself a big positive.

Quote from: LeGaulois on August 10, 2021, 10:34:00 AM

I concur with @adzino's comment also. I suppose when you say you're happy to see shops accepting BTC but don't want to use, it's because you bet on the bitcoin's price to be higher in the future. Which mean basically you're mainly interested to speculate but that's not really how the ecosystem can evolve. If nobody wants to pay in BTC then nothing will change and we will get stuck where we are today.

I think the OP mentioned that his place doesn't have a lot of options to pay with BTC. If he is saying that he won't use it to buy items, maybe he means that he sees it as a safe personal store of income. A lot of people treat it that way. The real use-case of BTC for payments are not the traditional merchants and grocery stores, the real use case is things like streaming payments over LN. It shouldn't matter in the long run that merchants continue to use fiat.

GeorgeJohn

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Quote from: Ucy on August 10, 2021, 05:47:49 AM

Interesting. Depends on what they do with the investments. I think a cryptocurrency will benefit more from investors that use more of such investment within the cryptocurrency economy, rather than for purposes that would make price movements very risky or volatile.

I read this like two times now and I'm struggling to understand the areas you are emphasising on, because from my perspective an investment is investment no matter what they adventure into and call it investment it's their own, I don't want to go further to refute this but let us to understand or comprehend your are of concentration, or your point to be understandable to others, but do not take this as an insult bro.

Ruvi2000sew

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I believe we are overlooking the fact that the more these institutions become involved with cryptocurrencies, the more vulnerable they will become to manipulation. What we've learnt over the last six months is that cryptocurrencies require security from someone like Elon Musk, who manipulates the market through social media while walking around freely. I feel that stronger restrictions and better investing practices are required so that cryptocurrencies such as bitcoins do not become a tool.

mckinleeanael07

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In my own opinion cryptocurrency is one of the risky and unstable currencies, but in terms of value, why BTC is valuable is because the community accepts the consensus price and increases the price. The value of BTC goes up. so it is impossible to predict exactly what the price of BTC will be. It all depends on the market and the trading community, they buy and hold a lot of BTC will increase in value, they sell a lot and sell out BTC. se decreases in value, it's really hard to talk about this.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 18, 2021, 12:46:50 PM

I disagree. Unless bitcoin starts to plummet, people are still going to use it as a store of value--and that's only if altcoins don't plummet right along with it, which would most likely be the case.

A reasonable option for most of them for now is to buy stablecoin as a mean of securing capital during bitcoin correction. It is normal when bitcoin experience a correction, the market capitalization of altcoin also experience a correction so that stablecoin become a temporary choice before starting to enter again to buy bitcoin. However, this strategy may not be for long-term holders and only for day or seasonal traders.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Ozero on August 16, 2021, 06:49:56 AM

Bitcoin is now bought mainly as a store of value, hoping that due to the rise in its price, it will be profitable. Therefore, it makes no sense to buy goods and services for it, because the transaction time and transaction costs are large compared to other cryptocurrencies.

As I just wrote in this post, what you described has always been the case with bitcoin--very few people have ever wanted to spend it, including the old school bitcoin whales who were banking on it going to the moon. Bitcoin certainly can be used as money at places that accept it as payment, but the insurmountable problem is its volatility. When you have the chance to make a profit by holding bitcoin because it's always going up and down, why in the world would you want to spend it instead of fiat, which is never going to increase in value?

Quote from: Ozero on August 16, 2021, 06:49:56 AM

At the same time, if bitcoin stops growing in value at its current rate, people will switch to another cryptocurrency unless bitcoin fixes problems with low scalability and high transaction costs. There is a problem and it needs to be solved.

I disagree. Unless bitcoin starts to plummet, people are still going to use it as a store of value--and that's only if altcoins don't plummet right along with it, which would most likely be the case.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: michellee on August 12, 2021, 05:14:14 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on August 12, 2021, 02:57:41 AM

Quote from: Helen-cty on August 10, 2021, 03:19:14 AM

For me, I would like to see more merchants willing to accept cryptocurrency payments, but I will not use cryptocurrency for payment.

I don't understand this, why do you want merchants to accept bitcoin when you are not ready to spend it to buy their products?

If you simply want them to adopt because the prices are going to be increased when it happens then at some point the bubble will burst. Anyhow when companies starts accepting then majority will spend on it then it will help the adoption not you buddy!

I guess she just wants to see the merchant's number will rise by accepting crypto, but she will not try to use crypto for payment. If that so, he only want to use crypto as her investment and not using for the payment system or she only wants to make money from crypto. That will be okay because we know that crypto can use for the payment method and the investment method and that will depend on people themselves which one they will use. All of us will have our reason for using the crypto and nobody can force us to use crypto to be the payment system.

Is that fair? Then why we want government and merchants to legalize and accept it as legal tender while we are just going to use it for our personal benefits.

But its their choice since bitcoin gives them complete deciding authority while if you do good things then it may come back to you because I heard Karma is real! Cheesy

bosede1

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I will prefer to say the future of cryptocurrency is a great trend, not an inevitable event, but a high possibility event". And also hope is just for this main time that you won't use bitcoin as payment because I think has the holder of this coin it will be a great delight in my Country using this coin as payment of goods and services.

Alisha-k

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Certainly more and more merchants would accept crypto currency and as for it's regulation it's not in the hands of the developers, crypto still remains decentralized and as such it's everyone's duty to make it what we want of it. I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 more than half of the world's populace adopt the use of crypto as means of carrying out than sections legally

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: Helen-cty on August 10, 2021, 03:19:14 AM

More merchants will endorse the acceptance of cryptocurrency.
Merchants can earn profits from rising cryptocurrencies.

This is where the worth of bitcoin will be felt by people. No one would adopt something which is difficult to use/understand and not beneficial in at least one means. Bitcoin got potential to be serving merchants as a versatile payment processor and as an investment opportunity if they opt to hold. The value of bitcoin to be realized once we start using it or adopting for whatever purposes which are suitable for an individual or a business.

Quote from: johnyj on August 16, 2021, 10:43:09 AM

It has been proven that USDT is much more suitable for payments, since people get used to use USD as base unit of value.

But, I feel that there cannot be any difficult to use BTC as a base unit for my spending. Moreover, USDT is a centralized one which may go bankrupted at any time soon. So, just being suitable for payment alone will not be enough criteria for adopting it.

johnyj

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Quote from: Ozero on August 16, 2021, 06:49:56 AM

The situation with the use of bitcoin as a means of payment is indeed a big problem for cryptocurrency users. Bitcoin is now bought mainly as a store of value, hoping that due to the rise in its price, it will be profitable. Therefore, it makes no sense to buy goods and services for it, because the transaction time and transaction costs are large compared to other cryptocurrencies.

It has been proven that USDT is much more suitable for payments, since people get used to use USD as base unit of value. Mortgage BTC and get USDT loans would also remove the difficulty in calculating capital gain/loss tax

Tahsin Kabir Kollol

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That, in reality, such incredible news, more organizations taking on cryptocurrency transaction, then, at that point, it will be more prominent for digital currency to be utilized as cash, not only a theory apparatus.
The reception of bitcoin as a method for installment is one of the help for the utilization and capacity of bitcoin as cash. This pattern will likely turn out to be more well-known whether the guideline is changed to be amicable toward utilizing bitcoin as money. Up until now, numerous nations permit the utilization of bitcoin as a method for installment, this builds requests so that somehow or another it can influence the cost.

Ozero

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Quote from: adzino on August 10, 2021, 08:50:35 AM

Quote from: Helen-cty on August 10, 2021, 03:19:14 AM

-snip-
For me, I would like to see more merchants willing to accept cryptocurrency payments, but I will not use cryptocurrency for payment.
The technology of cryptocurrency has become more and more mature, and what still needs to be strengthened is the regulatory level. From the perspective of circulation, we can see whether the future of cryptocurrency is valuable.

You want to see more merchants accepting cryptocurrencies, but you won't be using it for making payments. Then wouldn't that just put off merchants from wanting to adopt/accept the cryptocurrencies? It's totally understandable as to why you don't want to use bitcoin to make payments, but the more the people use it, the more the world will be accepting towards cryptocurrencies. As people become more accepting, we will be see rapid development where solutions to the current problems with crypto currencies can be found. And with this, we will see the true value of crypto currencies reflect.

The situation with the use of bitcoin as a means of payment is indeed a big problem for cryptocurrency users. Bitcoin is now bought mainly as a store of value, hoping that due to the rise in its price, it will be profitable. Therefore, it makes no sense to buy goods and services for it, because the transaction time and transaction costs are large compared to other cryptocurrencies.
At the same time, if bitcoin stops growing in value at its current rate, people will switch to another cryptocurrency unless bitcoin fixes problems with low scalability and high transaction costs. There is a problem and it needs to be solved.

verita1

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It is fantastic news that the Philipp Plein clothing brand is starting to accept bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Take a look at your account on Instagram and I found this image allusive to the coins they accept: bitcoin, bitcoincash, bnb, bitcoin sv, dogecoin, ethereum, litecoin, paxos, qtum, tron, trueusd, usdcoin, nano, OMG, tether.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSH4r09nBbr/?utm_medium=copy_link

Important for bitcoin without a doubt every time we see any business accepting cryptocurrencies we feel very excited.

Because we have chosen this path in search of freedom to support our money and when we meet more defenders of our ideas we feel that we are more.

The biggest community that loves bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are on Twitter and the latest tweets from Philipp Plein the clothing brand have no new tweets. They need to improve their social media marketing strategies and strengthen their Twitter network.

https://twitter.com/philipp_plein?s=09

tygeade

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In terms of regulation, I don’t think that it is going to be easy to regulate cryptocurrency, especially bitcoin. Maybe in future it will, but right now I am not seeing the possibility of that happening, except that maybe through centralized exchanges. But not every transaction goes through centralized exchanges, there are many that are being carried out on decentralized exchanges. So, a full regulation is not going to be that possible.

As for companies accepting bitcoin as a payment method, we will get to see more of them doing this particular in time to come. But I am not the type that likes spending my bitcoins for any reason at all, I simply prefer to hold it as an investment, and sometimes I send and receive from people. The only thing I have not done is to use it in buying something online.

(o)(o)ilikeboobs(o)(o)

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Value is determined by agreement of the buyer and seller. Of course, at different times the value changes. The value of Bitcoin is very clear, there are many people buying and selling daily with high transaction volume. Although the payout in Bitcoin is not as large as we see it, it is the transaction that creates value for Bitcoin. People buy and sell for profit, so stop talking about value. They are only relative.

yhiaali3

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Of course the reversal of the value of anything is in practical use, but we are still very far from this yet because we are still very far from full regulation of cryptocurrencies, of course a lot of flaws can appear during the practical use of Bitcoin but global acceptance and speed in regulation will help Solve these problems early.
The German move may encourage more countries to start regulating Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and now several countries have started to officially accept Bitcoin as a currency, such as El Salvador and Argentina, and this will help speed the spread of Crypto and find convenient solutions to problems that can appear on the ground, Crypto is still in its infancy and we are need a lot of time and collective cooperation to overcome all the problems that may arise but I am sure that this will happen soon.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: ven7net on August 13, 2021, 01:00:08 PM

The fact that cryptocurrency is accepted for payment for goods and services is certainly very good, since this is what increases the value of cryptocurrencies, but there is one but. For the mass adoption of crypto and increase in value, it is necessary that the cryptocurrency can be used in all stores in the world, especially grocery stores, as well as in cafes and restaurants. The fact is that if, for example, you can buy a Tesla car for BTC, then this is only a small part of people who will take advantage of this opportunity, but if you could come to the supermarket for BTC and buy food, then this probably increased the value of BTC immediately several times. But no matter how it was, let's hope that all this will happen in the near future.

I think we should also factor the price where people are willing to pay cryptocurrencies. Just like gold, its price is derived from: (1) its scarcity and non-renewability; and (2) demand and supply. Just like in cryptocurrencies, as long as people are willing to purchase it at a certain amount, then its price would continue to rise.

The factors including payment for goods and services, etc. are only one of the many things that contribute to its price. But, we should always consider that the gem is on the blockchain technology- where we can transfer payments without the need for any third-party intermediaries. That is why, I do see the price of BTCs increasing over the next following years.

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