Topic: Which Proof of Stake System is the Most Viable - page 3. (Read 25775 times)
I believe perhaps this is the same table referenced. It has been changed and updated. It has NXT/Bitshares vs other networks. I think some of the accuracy concerns have been addressed ?
I believe, for objectivity purposes, it would make sense to differentiate between 'normal conditions' and 'emergency conditions' when comparing systems. So, two sets of numbers are required for each system in the table.
This!
Not bad. That would dramatically increase the credibility of that table. +1
I believe, for objectivity purposes, it would make sense to differentiate between 'normal conditions' and 'emergency conditions' when comparing systems. So, two sets of numbers are required for each system in the table.
my mistake, bter uses 10 confirmations as well
you guys are right to say that 6 block confirmations for bitcoin does not make an immutable transaction. it says here that 10 confirmations are recommended for nxt. i don't know if there is any analysis of the recommendation that would make it easier to compare to bitcoin confirmations. also bter is a chinese exchange that has 70% nxt trading volume.
6 blocks isn't immutable for bitcoin. It's just a recommendation, because with each block it becomes mathematically harder for a fork to catch up. If you want it to be truly immutable for bitcoin, you would have to go back to the last place a checkpoint was manually hardcoded in.
Do you have a link for that 10 blocks?
No. Though since you said that normally forks are no longer than 1 block high, then 10 is probably super conservative.
6 blocks isn't immutable for bitcoin. It's just a recommendation, because with each block it becomes mathematically harder for a fork to catch up. If you want it to be truly immutable for bitcoin, you would have to go back to the last place a checkpoint was manually hardcoded in.
Do you have a link for that 10 blocks?
can you provide a source for the 10 blocks confirmation time for nxt being comparable for 6 blocks for btc. as i know, 6 blocks is immutable for bitcoin and the wiki says that 1440 blocks is immutable for nxt. what is deemed as "acceptable" for btc is 1 to 3 blocks.
720 are immutable for Nxt as we have rolling checkpoints (that is each node does not accept blockchain re-org after 720 blocks)
1440 is for having effective balance (that is you need to generate blocks)
I am not sure if 6 blocks in Bitcoin means immutable. Bitcoin does not have rolling checkpoints. I thought it was a recommendation. Do you have a link?
10 blocks are the recommendation for Nxt but I never had problems with 2 or 3 confirmations transactions. On the other hand, they are rare because I am too slow because new blocks can come in fast (because the block times are still random)
After some testing I have done, we have forks of length 1 but not longer. So, the network is pretty stable. As BitShares will use almost the same consensus algo, I can tell you that your network will be stable as hell.
I was under the impression that 10 blocks was more like 1 block for bitcoin.
I think this analogy is somewhat correct. In the future, it will not because Nxt will have constant block times of 1 minute whereas Bitcoins block times are random.
when i use bter i think it takes 20 confirmations to go through so i would assume 10 blocks for nxt is not comparable to 6 blocks for bitcoin.
I do not know of BTER.
i understand that this will change with TF and new release. I will use your suggestion of splitting consensus into base and mechanism. thanks for the information!
Sounds cool.
can you provide a source for the 10 blocks confirmation time for nxt being comparable for 6 blocks for btc. as i know, 6 blocks is immutable for bitcoin and the wiki says that 1440 blocks is immutable for nxt. what is deemed as "acceptable" for btc is 1 to 3 blocks. I was under the impression that 10 blocks was more like 1 block for bitcoin. when i use bter i think it takes 20 confirmations to go through so i would assume 10 blocks for nxt is not comparable to 6 blocks for bitcoin. i understand that this will change with TF and new release. I will use your suggestion of splitting consensus into base and mechanism. thanks for the information!
6 blocks isn't immutable for bitcoin. It's just a recommendation, because with each block it becomes mathematically harder for a fork to catch up. If you want it to be truly immutable for bitcoin, you would have to go back to the last place a checkpoint was manually hardcoded in.
I am actively editing the wiki. I am pretty sure those facts are correct.
Oh cool. Let me explain:
Not sure what "confirmation time" here means, but 6 blocks of Bitcoin are a recommendation like 10 blocks is for Nxt. Maybe, the semantics of "confirmation time" is not what I think it is.
After careful consideration, Nxt also use that what you call DPoS. We have also delegates. However, we call it different. I think it would be better to have TF (Transparent Forging) in there. It is the official term for consensus finding in Nxt.
I am not sure if this row is used for concrete implementations or for classes of consensus mechanisms. E.g. DPoS is the name of the concrete name of the consensus mechanism in BitShares whereas PoW and PoS however are classes of algorithms. I would be glad if you could harmonize this row.
Maybe, two rows would be helpful for users:
Consensus Base: PoS/PoW
Consensus Mechanism: DPoS, TF, Consensus, Scrypt
can you provide a source for the 10 blocks confirmation time for nxt being comparable for 6 blocks for btc. as i know, 6 blocks is immutable for bitcoin and the wiki says that 1440 blocks is immutable for nxt. what is deemed as "acceptable" for btc is 1 to 3 blocks. I was under the impression that 10 blocks was more like 1 block for bitcoin. when i use bter i think it takes 20 confirmations to go through so i would assume 10 blocks for nxt is not comparable to 6 blocks for bitcoin. i understand that this will change with TF and new release. I will use your suggestion of splitting consensus into base and mechanism. thanks for the information!
This is the Wiki of BitShares. What do you expect? 
They of course need to put their product into the right light. There is nothing wrong with that.
They of course need to put their product into the right light. There is nothing wrong with that....claiming here, that the wiki gives the worst possible scenario for BitShares and best possible for others, while it's vice versa
if the comparison chart assumes anything at all it assumes the worst possible scenario for bitshares and the best possible scenario for competitors. everything in the bitshares column aside from market pegged assets has been tested on public test network.
@clout
Something more: in the next major feature release, Nxt will have anonymous transactions and dividend. Not sure what pegging means but Monetary System seems like this. This will be in the next major feature release, too.
Just to keep you up to date.
Something more: in the next major feature release, Nxt will have anonymous transactions and dividend. Not sure what pegging means but Monetary System seems like this. This will be in the next major feature release, too.
Just to keep you up to date.
You give the worst case for Nxt and the best case for bitshares and claim that it's a valid comparison.
This is the Wiki of BitShares. What do you expect?
They of course need to put their product into the right light. There is nothing wrong with that.However, I agree that some cells need amendment. It is a Wiki and should therefore be honest as possible. But there is nothing tragic here.
I am actively editing the wiki. I am pretty sure those facts are correct.
Oh cool. Let me explain:
Not sure what "confirmation time" here means, but 6 blocks of Bitcoin are a recommendation like 10 blocks is for Nxt. Maybe, the semantics of "confirmation time" is not what I think it is.
After careful consideration, Nxt also use that what you call DPoS. We have also delegates. However, we call it different. I think it would be better to have TF (Transparent Forging) in there. It is the official term for consensus finding in Nxt.
I am not sure if this row is used for concrete implementations or for classes of consensus mechanisms. E.g. DPoS is the name of the concrete name of the consensus mechanism in BitShares whereas PoW and PoS however are classes of algorithms. I would be glad if you could harmonize this row.
Maybe, two rows would be helpful for users:
Consensus Base: PoS/PoW
Consensus Mechanism: DPoS, TF, Consensus, Scrypt
here is a comparison of nxt and bitshares:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
Cool. Thanks.
There are some wrong facts in there. Who is the guy I can talk to in order to have them corrected?
I am actively editing the wiki. I am pretty sure those facts are correct.
720 block confirmation times for Nxt. Where did you get that from?
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/How_Tx_Processing_Works#Transaction_Confirmations
technically speaking 720 blocks isn't actually the comparable confirmation time. 1440 blocks makes a transaction immutable
with bitshares when there is a delegate participation rate over 80% only 1 block confirmation is needed. worst case scenario given poor delegate participation 51 block confirmations would be need.
That's the equivalent of 6 confirmations for bitcoin.
You give the worst case for Nxt and the best case for bitshares and claim that it's a valid comparison.
here is a comparison of nxt and bitshares:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
Cool. Thanks.
There are some wrong facts in there. Who is the guy I can talk to in order to have them corrected?
I am actively editing the wiki. I am pretty sure those facts are correct.
720 block confirmation times for Nxt. Where did you get that from?
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/How_Tx_Processing_Works#Transaction_Confirmations
technically speaking 720 blocks isn't actually the comparable confirmation time. 1440 blocks makes a transaction immutable
with bitshares when there is a delegate participation rate over 80% only 1 block confirmation is needed. worst case scenario given poor delegate participation 51 block confirmations would be need.
here is a comparison of nxt and bitshares:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
Cool. Thanks.
There are some wrong facts in there. Who is the guy I can talk to in order to have them corrected?
I am actively editing the wiki. I am pretty sure those facts are correct.
720 block confirmation times for Nxt. Where did you get that from?
Interestingly, Blackcoin which is based on the Peercoin PoS system decided to improve their PoS algorithm to remove some flaws (http://www.blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdf). Their system now seems similar to Nxt (or will do once they hardfork and switch).
Lol? Peercoin - Flaws = Nxt <<< sweet
Why would I NOW switch to Blackcoin when Nxt is going to have privacy? I would say I can stick to Nxt even longer.
here is a comparison of nxt and bitshares:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
If DPOS works it seems to be the answer to the topic question.
here is a comparison of nxt and bitshares:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
Cool. Thanks.
There are some wrong facts in there. Who is the guy I can talk to in order to have them corrected?
I am actively editing the wiki. I am pretty sure those facts are correct.
here is a comparison of nxt and bitshares:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms
Cool. Thanks.
There are some wrong facts in there. Who is the guy I can talk to in order to have them corrected?
Jump to: