Topic: Which wallet still support sending bitcoin with 0 fee? (Read 865 times)

This makes no sense at all.
A block reward is already paid and people who want high transaction priority will pay higher fees for it.

I'm not following your train of toughts here...
The transaction fee is not paying the developers, the miner can add the sum of all transaction fees of all transactions he put in the block he's trying to solve to the current block reward. The wallet developer or maintainer gets nothing.
There have been a couple secure wallets in the past that charged a small fee (not a mining fee) for using their wallet (multibit HD), but nowadays i don't think any truely vetted community supported wallet still charges a fee.

Also, if you're using a wallet where a thirth party is keeping your funds, do yourself a favour and migrate to a decent wallet straight away.

If you are considering a wallet offer of 0 transaction also consider the safety of such wallet. I believe for those authorizing the transaction the transaction fee get them paid. If you dont want to pay anyone for keeping your bitcoin and for sending it, then think about how too cheap and unsafe you are requesting for everything.

I always tought that btcd allowed the minimum relay fee to be 0:

https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd/blob/86fed781132ac890ee03e906e4ecd5d6fa180c64/mempool/policy.go#L61

Seems like there is no "hardcoded" limit, if the minRelayTxFee == 0, then minFee = 0

source: https://godoc.org/github.com/btcsuite/btcd

BTW: here's a 0 fee non-segwit transaction i made in case somebody wants to try to broadcast it
ps: don't try to include it into a block you're currently trying to solve just to do me a favor, the transaction is using an unspent output funding the exact same address that was funded by the unspent output, so including it into a block would have 0 effect.

I've had this discussion with a couple of new users just last week, If i'm not mistaking 0 fee transactions aren't illegal at the protocol level, it's just most node's and most wallet's implementation that stops 0 fee transactions to be created/broadcasted/... If you use the console of core, and use createrawtransaction signrawtransaction AND broadcast to (for example) a btcd node that has 0 fee relay AND by sheer luck end up with a miner that also uses btcd with 0 fee option AND the miner has non-full block AND includes your tx (not sure if he'd have to rewrite his software to allow this), there is a very small possibility of creating, broadcasting and getting a 0 fee transaction into a block... (a very, very, very, very small possibility).

Did you manage this?
I need 2 hashes and the amount sent for each (same inputs and same outputs in both just a slightly different fee and amount spent)?

I kept changing the fee, so I didn't send it.

If I get the chance tomorrow, I'll have a go at changing things, but I might have to fry another pizza instead.

Can you send me the raw unsigned transaction hash? I'm not sure how you get it out of core.
If you used electrum I could help put it through much easier.

Instead. Use the mintxfee=0.00000001 when starting the client - I'm not entirely sure on the command pooya said minrelaytxfee so you could try that one too with the operand of 0.00000001.

I tried sending a few Satoshi to my CoinBase account with a 1 Satoshi/Kb fee, It keeps updating the fee to what I assume is a minimum rate. This applies to 0 Satoshi as well.

You get an error with setting mintxfee to zero. Anything higher is fine but... I'm guessing you can't go lower than 0.00000001.

So the second point is also a no to the first part but a yes to the second. I gave up trying to put it through...

what is all this talk about downgrading upgrading,... can't you already change minrelaytxfee to another number in your bitcoin core settings? i don't have bitcoin core anymore (because of HDD problems, it being full!) to check it out. (as in calling -minrelaytxfee=0 in your console).

you are free to send it with no fees (as i did with the transaction that i posted above) and the rest of the network are also free to chose to either reject or accept it. it just happens that majority of the network is currently rejecting 0 fee transactions and miners love this

A point release is for bug fixes or soft fork deployment parameter, not major feature changes. Changing the minimum relay fee rate (and everything else that goes with it) would be a major feature release. It definitely would not be first released as a point release. Just because your favorite change isn't in a point release does not mean it is not going to be in the next release.

And just because you think "it can't be that much to change" does not mean it is not. There are a lot more fee rates than just the minimum relay fee and changing fee rates affects a lot of components.

If you can send $4 without a fee, then I can send 100 million 1 satoshi transactions back to myself without a fee. And I can do this constantly and indefinitely forever flooding the blockchain and the mempool. This kind of spam is detrimental the network and has potential to cause major problems. That's the whole reason there's a transaction fee and a minimum relay fee: to prevent this sort of spam.

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When changing anything in any of Bitcoin's consensus or transaction relay policies and protocols, you can't just think about the short term and how a change affects just you as a user. This is a distributed and decentralized system where major changes to the protocols affect the whole ecosystem. You have to look at the big picture and see how a change affects the entire ecosystem as a whole, not just the individual.

It won't actually work unless I get you to recompile the source .
I'm guessing no one else has actually recompiled the source themselves after that edit meaning it probably won't work, unless you fancy downgrading to 0.10.2 or something (I have a copy on my hard drive).

(Don't come here and say you just have to set the mintxfee to zero because IT DOESN'T WORK --aimed at those who believe it does - not jet cash - I wasted half an hour making that transaction if I'm honest electrum does some weird stuff)

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@Jet Cash, I was going to send you this:

[tx hash removed, @jet cash check your pm on fittotalk.com]

A happy zero fee transaction .
Someone push that through in a couple of years when the min tx fee is 10 sats per byte because the bitcoin devs are trying to price us out of the market .
"Ooh it will be reduced when v 0.18.0 comes out" they're saying. We've had a release since then of one of their fixes, and it can't be that much to change...

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I'd like to send $4 without a fee, why is that a stupid ask?

If you want to try that by sending the Satoshi to the Crypto Coin Tree Segwit address, then I'll pay your the Sterling value if it works.

Just got my lazy ass to check and all the 0-fee transactions in the past 5 days including today and there's a very curious 2 txs a day, each in 1 block, and all found by F2Pool all between 2.30am to 6.15am UTC... the coinbase data all separate names.

Of those pair of 0-fees, 1 looks like a consolidation, and 1 is split to over 3,800 outputs. So this looks like F2Pool just paying its own participants, so no fees necessary.

Example block 557390, tx IDs d8e18f5022434269cf59603a70594e5d78485208290a106135ef83f7341cbed8 and 035d37ece0c7bb52e2f6a9f2c16d06bd6ef6840a73e25c1ffc5357d56eaf0452

The 4 other blocks: 557248, 557080, 556931, 556793.

I've tried that a few months ago when the network traffic was quite low
I pushed it to a few nodes, some nodes rejected immediately while a few accepted but rejected eventually
those that accepted the tx, removed it after a few minutes... I can tell by checking that node's blockchain explorer

can you tell me their txids? which pool found the block?
would be interesting to try push 0-fee tx into that node and see whether the tx gets through or not

Have you tried bitmain and bitfury? If anyone accepts low or no fees it's going to be them or slush.

No luck here, all rejected for the same min relay fee error. Checking your address of input and it seems you've had no luck broadcasting it either. Only way now is for a miner to manually include it I guess and since there were 4 0-fee txs confirmed in the last 24 hours, then there's at least 1 big guy still doing it. Probably just their own txs though. Might spend some time a bit later tomorrow if I remember, to identify the miner/miners who included those txs!

i just created one, now the problem is with broadcasting it. blockexplorer usually accepts them since they don't have the minrelayfee set but they are rejecting this because of it is creating a SegWit output.
i'll try sending it to a couple of nodes at random and see if they reject it later. for the time being here is the raw hex, feel free to broadcast it:

So does this mean that it is still possible? If there is a pool of miners who accepts it?

I think we can try because we can set a new tx fee for an already broadcasted transaction anyway.

Has anybody tried to send a zero fee transaction? I might have a go if nobody has attempted it.