While using bitcoin there should be privacy

masulum

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hmph..

Quote from: Oshosondy on July 26, 2020, 04:00:25 PM

You can still buy on some exchanges that require not verification, certain amount of bitcoin can be bought on bitcoin atms without any verification needed. Only novice are the ones using wallets and exchanges that require verification.

Yes maybe we can buy bitcoin through an ATM with Fiat without identity or buy with a DEX exchange. However, not all can do this in several countries. Including in my country, to withdraw from crypto to fiat, exchange applies KYC at any value. This then makes not all who trade with bitcoin can maintain full privacy. We all need privacy and maybe lot of crypto user don't want to do KYC, but when it comes to dealing with the government, we have to do anything. Except in countries that accept bitcoin not only as commodity but legal as currency, full privacy can be happened.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: Febo on July 06, 2020, 12:39:41 PM

In past was easy to get bitcoin and not link your identity to the coins. Nowadays is much harder and it all looks in future it will be close to impossible. Bitcoin and private simply have little in common. People in countries where privacy is tradition will avoid using Bitcoin. People in countries where privacy is not tradition will widely use Bitcoin in the future.

I will first say bitcoin is not anonymous right from the beginning, but privacy can still be of high standard even till today. If you use another address for another transaction makes only a single address fee traced to your wallet. You can still buy on some exchanges that require not verification, certain amount of bitcoin can be bought on bitcoin atms without any verification needed. Only novice are the ones using wallets and exchanges that require verification.

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on July 13, 2020, 07:12:16 AM

Quote from: KrisAlex18 on July 12, 2020, 09:42:03 AM

I don't have much money on my crypto waller account so I don't care much about security and privacy, that's me before but I realized that it is not good for me as a bitcoin, I should secure well my account even though it has no huge amount of money because there would be a possibility that hackers can still steal target you and will steal your money. but if I will have a huge amount of money, I will really need privacy and security, hackers always want huge money, they are common targets those people with huge money on their account knowing that they will make kore money compared to others.

Hackers probably care less about your privacy exposure than your government does at this point. If there was an entity to fear more between the two, I'd choose the government tbh. Why? Because they're legally getting into your personal life using various silly excuses +80% of the people fall for.

You should hide your identity from anyone no matter what. It's something you should have under control. If I rewind back to 2013, I remember a LOT of people talking about how much financial freedom and privacy Bitcoin gives and how bad that is for the authorities. Where are the same people now? Because at this point it seems like they only stated these things in order to create more FOMO so their own wallet's value would grow..

usually the government can have us in their hands no matter what.
that's why it's so hard to find whistleblowers.
the government has just too much power.

regarding that, it's interesting to think what happens when bitcoin and crypto grows.

Insanerman

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Quote from: Oshosondy on July 05, 2020, 11:32:58 AM

2. Is it possible hackers can become a thief as technology is advancing or even now, know your custodial wallet or exchange and use the custodial wallet or exchange to know who exactly you are, come to your house one day just to come and forcefully steal your bitcoin? To me it is possible and I will always like privacy.

Sadly, if you happen to give your personal information in the internet, and specifically if you passed your kyc to a custodial wallet, if that wallet was hacked, then, any information that is stored there are already theirs. If that happened, since your info is there, then they will know who you are. I just do not know why they will go to your house,but they can, if they would like to. But that will be a bad move for them, so they will not think of that. Be more careful to your passwords. Do not access funds on public Wi-Fis.

20kevin20

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Quote from: KrisAlex18 on July 12, 2020, 09:42:03 AM

I don't have much money on my crypto waller account so I don't care much about security and privacy, that's me before but I realized that it is not good for me as a bitcoin, I should secure well my account even though it has no huge amount of money because there would be a possibility that hackers can still steal target you and will steal your money. but if I will have a huge amount of money, I will really need privacy and security, hackers always want huge money, they are common targets those people with huge money on their account knowing that they will make kore money compared to others.

Hackers probably care less about your privacy exposure than your government does at this point. If there was an entity to fear more between the two, I'd choose the government tbh. Why? Because they're legally getting into your personal life using various silly excuses +80% of the people fall for.

You should hide your identity from anyone no matter what. It's something you should have under control. If I rewind back to 2013, I remember a LOT of people talking about how much financial freedom and privacy Bitcoin gives and how bad that is for the authorities. Where are the same people now? Because at this point it seems like they only stated these things in order to create more FOMO so their own wallet's value would grow..

witcher_sense

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Quote from: KrisAlex18 on July 12, 2020, 09:42:03 AM

I don't have much money on my crypto waller account so I don't care much about security and privacy, that's me before but I realized that it is not good for me as a bitcoin, I should secure well my account even though it has no huge amount of money because there would be a possibility that hackers can still steal target you and will steal your money. but if I will have a huge amount of money, I will really need privacy and security, hackers always want huge money, they are common targets those people with huge money on their account knowing that they will make kore money compared to others.

This is common misconception that users privacy and security should depend on the amount of cryptocurrency they currently hold. When they are thinking that way, they are missing the big part of the problem. Essentially, their assumptions are based on the wrong measurements. Given that we live in the world where economy is measured in reserve currency - dollar - and we use it as a unit of account to value different commodities, it is naturally obvious for everyone to calculate their wealthiness in that currency. However, it is not easy to calculate value of anything in bitcoins, because it is yet to be adopted as universal unit of account. Once it happens (or if) their small amounts in bitcoins may suddenly become huge and attractive for hackers.

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: KrisAlex18 on July 12, 2020, 09:42:03 AM

I don't have much money on my crypto waller account so I don't care much about security and privacy, that's me before but I realized that it is not good for me as a bitcoin, I should secure well my account even though it has no huge amount of money because there would be a possibility that hackers can still steal target you and will steal your money. but if I will have a huge amount of money, I will really need privacy and security, hackers always want huge money, they are common targets those people with huge money on their account knowing that they will make kore money compared to others.

One thing I learned reading "the richest man in Babylon" and other finances books is that if you don't take care of a small amount you won't take care of a big one, or even know how to handle it when it gets bigger.

thinking about privacy and security from the start is something important.

it's quite commons for people to get good results with crypto or stocks and give it all back to the markt because of things like that.

KrisAlex18

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I don't have much money on my crypto waller account so I don't care much about security and privacy, that's me before but I realized that it is not good for me as a bitcoin, I should secure well my account even though it has no huge amount of money because there would be a possibility that hackers can still steal target you and will steal your money. but if I will have a huge amount of money, I will really need privacy and security, hackers always want huge money, they are common targets those people with huge money on their account knowing that they will make kore money compared to others.

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on July 08, 2020, 03:59:51 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 07, 2020, 03:55:39 PM

as bob123 mentioned an ATM is not 100% private.

you can have more privacy buying on p2p and using a mixer like blender or chipmixer (or if you're buying eth using tornado.cash)

if you buy on exchange + mixer you'll already have more privacy than buying on an atm.

Using your suggestions are also good, p2p exchanges that have no contact with your personal details will be fine but know that bitcoin ATM is 100% private, although depending on the amount of bitcoin you want to trade. Trading $5000 that your pocket can contain is good, just go to bitcoin atm and do your transactions with ease, no personal details is collected and privacy is of highest level.

some ATMs may be safe in terms of privacy but still have cameras on the place or collect information as far as I heard.
I'd bet we can't generalize, right?

anyways, there are no bitcoin ATMs around where I live so its not really an option for many.

it also really depends on the amount of money we're talking about. one thing is selling 5,000 USD and a totally different one is selling 50,000 USD.

Subbir

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In terms of privacy, it's up to us, but keeping the keys safe while exchanging can back everything up.

Bitcoin is undoubtedly one of the inventions in today's world of cash laundering, apart from P2P wallets for 100% privacy systems. Bitcoin is predicated on blockchain technology. Experts agree that the blockchain technology at the core of Bitcoin is very reliable. Banks and financial institutions should also use this block-chain technology. Block-chains have already been adopted as a replacement potential technology.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 07, 2020, 03:55:39 PM

as bob123 mentioned an ATM is not 100% private.

you can have more privacy buying on p2p and using a mixer like blender or chipmixer (or if you're buying eth using tornado.cash)

if you buy on exchange + mixer you'll already have more privacy than buying on an atm.

Using your suggestions are also good, p2p exchanges that have no contact with your personal details will be fine but know that bitcoin ATM is 100% private, although depending on the amount of bitcoin you want to trade. Trading $5000 that your pocket can contain is good, just go to bitcoin atm and do your transactions with ease, no personal details is collected and privacy is of highest level.

Lucasgabd

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There's no need to be upset

as bob123 mentioned an ATM is not 100% private.

you can have more privacy buying on p2p and using a mixer like blender or chipmixer (or if you're buying eth using tornado.cash)

if you buy on exchange + mixer you'll already have more privacy than buying on an atm.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bob123 on July 06, 2020, 03:01:24 PM

The interesting part is buying and selling with a linked real identity on a centralized exchange, without any possibility to link those trades and coins.

Yeah, this is also true. Even if you are forced to use a centralized exchange, complete KYC, or otherwise link your personal details to a trade or transaction, it is still possible to break the link between that transaction and future ones. Given how much centralized exchanges spy on their users, and even go so far as to freeze accounts if you deposit or withdraw coins to a service they don't like such as a casino, then trying to reclaim some semblance of privacy is even more important in these cases.

Quote from: Text on July 06, 2020, 03:04:51 PM

You cannot convert your crypto to fiat without the help of third-party apps services that require your Identity information.

Yes, you absolutely can. See my previous post here - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54743635

Quote from: sheenshane on July 07, 2020, 09:53:28 AM

It's a sort of escrow between the buyer and seller which is a good transaction for those who want privacy and the P2P exchange will earn through the fee they were collected from both parties.

It's worth pointing out that real decentralized exchanges such as Bisq, while they do provide an escrow between buyer and seller, do not have control over your funds while they are in escrow. The escrow is a multi-sig wallet between buyer and seller. Bisq can aid in mediating disputes, but they never control your coins or private keys as happens with centralized exchanges.

bob123

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Quote from: Lordhermes on July 07, 2020, 11:46:30 AM

Have heard so many confusing themselves about exchange and wallets, some choose to store their portfolio in exchange while exchange is not connected to private key.

Seems like you are one of those confused ones.

Nothing is "connected" to a private key like you imagine.

Spending BTC always involves a private key to sign the transaction.
Custodial wallets / exchanges just don't give you access to the private keys (which is quite understandable regarding exchanges).

You just have a balance on their website which entitles you to withdraw BTC.

Quote from: Lordhermes on July 07, 2020, 11:46:30 AM

[..] So privacy is measured by percentage.

You can not measure privacy in percentage. Check my previous posts.

Lordhermes

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Have heard so many confusing themselves about exchange and wallets, some choose to store their portfolio in exchange while exchange is not connected to private key. Every wallets has a mnemonic phrases or private key to back up your wallet, that's why wallets warns you to write down those keys somewhere.
In case of privacy, there is no 100% privacy system. Every wallets, p2p, ATM has a leak end point for public accessment. So privacy is measured by percentage.

Philipping

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bitcoin ATMs are not for privacy it is for a person who wants to buy small satoshi to use to pay for a service that accepts payments only via digital currencies.
It is a bad way to invest because fees are high and risky
It is not a way of privacy because you are buying and selling in a place that has cameras or close to the eyes of people and therefore everyone will know that you made the purchase and by following the public key that the wallet gave you, all the details of your currencies will be found.

sheenshane

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on July 07, 2020, 08:38:49 AM

I am not sure of p2p exchanges...

In a short way to understand, a third party exchange which holds the fund each party to execute trade safely. It's a sort of escrow between the buyer and seller which is a good transaction for those who want privacy and the P2P exchange will earn through the fee they were collected from both parties.

Aside from P2P exchange, there is also local P2P trading, it can hide your identity but it is risky of being robbed after the transaction done. There could be sensible precautions about this but when we talk of privacy, it will work. IMO, Bitcoin is not anonymous, but if used safely, it can give you more than enough privacy upon choosing on how to purchase/use on it.

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Quote from: Text on July 06, 2020, 03:04:51 PM

You also can't blame other users for why they are under KYC. You cannot convert your crypto to fiat without the help of third-party apps services that require your Identity information. We know that people have different purposes when it comes to using crypto. Others consider crypto as a currency as a fiat that they can only say is worth it when it is spent. Not all items can be purchased using crypto due to the limited merchants receiving payments using it. Although online merchants that already adopt crypto are also centralized, you can rarely find a fully decentralized so there is really no other choice but to get KYC to make the most of your crypto.

Did you check what o_e_l_e_o posted above, you can check it below.
I am very sure bitcoin atm can be used to completely buy or sell without any identity given or noticed. I am not sure of p2p exchanges but with what o_e_l_e_o explained, there are p2p that do not make use of identity for buying and selling of bitcoin.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 06, 2020, 01:34:25 PM

As someone who only ever buys and sells bitcoin without linking the trades to my real identity, and refuses to use centralized exchanges or complete KYC at all, it is much easier to trade privately than it was a few years ago. There are more options for buying bitcoin privately than there ever have been before, such as Bisq, Hodl Hodl, LocalCryptos, this forum, direct peer-to-peer trades, some ATMs which don't require KYC, physical shops and vendors, and so on. These kind of services are only becoming more popular as time goes on, as more people wake up and start to realize why their privacy is important. As long as bitcoin exists, there will exist decentralized trading options which cannot be shut down by governments or third parties.

Text

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You also can't blame other users for why they are under KYC. You cannot convert your crypto to fiat without the help of third-party apps services that require your Identity information. We know that people have different purposes when it comes to using crypto. Others consider crypto as a currency as a fiat that they can only say is worth it when it is spent. Not all items can be purchased using crypto due to the limited merchants receiving payments using it. Although online merchants that already adopt crypto are also centralized, you can rarely find a fully decentralized so there is really no other choice but to get KYC to make the most of your crypto.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 06, 2020, 01:34:25 PM

Quote from: Febo on July 06, 2020, 12:39:41 PM

Nowadays is much harder and it all looks in future it will be close to impossible.

Nonsense. As someone who only ever buys and sells bitcoin without linking the trades to my real identity, and refuses to use centralized exchanges or complete KYC at all, it is much easier to trade privately than it was a few years ago.

The interesting part is buying and selling with a linked real identity on a centralized exchange, without any possibility to link those trades and coins.
The cryptography we have available (e.g. blind- and ring signatures) is enough to keep us anonymous (i.e. using coinjoin) without any link between 2 transactions.

Privacy isn't only a matter of not giving out private and sensitive information, but breaking the link between transactions of which the counterparty has some information which could be assembled to create a detailed and sensitive profile.

We made huge steps in terms of privacy through cryptography in the last few years.

Topic: While using bitcoin there should be privacy (Read 658 times)