whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies

netrin

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FirstBits: 168Bc

Quote from: ctoon6 on September 28, 2011, 09:41:06 PM

debts ~~must~~ MAY be paid in USD ~~unless otherwise arranged beforehand~~. if you get ordered to pay money, it ~~must~~ MAY be in USD. another funny example, if your car get impounded, by law they are required to take USD regardless of its form

Legal tender means that one must ACCEPT fiat for all debts public and private. However you may PAY with anything you like as long as it is accepted by both parties.

FAtlas

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The entire Huxtable family has now signed on, along with several aliases of the Cozman

burlyman007

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removed

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

Quote from: iamzill on September 29, 2011, 01:34:04 AM

Quote from: FreeMoney on September 28, 2011, 11:37:53 AM

I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours?

They have guns, tanks, aircraft carriers, and thermonuclear weapons. I have nothing.

Yeah, they got that shit from people obeying them all the time. Sucks now, but best to try not to support and strengthen them anymore imo. There is a reason they don't actually use that stuff on us all the time, it's not really all that profitable to do.

cruikshank

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Quote from: Cryptoman on September 29, 2011, 11:26:12 AM

Interestingly, I've seen exits on U.S. turnpikes that only accept the system's RF transponder for payment. Do you not incur a debt when you enter a turnpike? Why are federal reserve notes not accepted in payment of this debt? I suspect that this could be legally challenged.

Those are basically bus passes so no one has to stop to pay, that way traffic can keep moving rather than be bottle necked at the toll booths. So would be as pointless to legally challenge it as you would also have to challenge debt/credit cards, gift cards, and even checks.

FAtlas

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Bill Cosby supports you!

Andrew Bitcoiner

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Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6

Sorry, too busy living my life... spending my bitcoins...

fivebells

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I'm afraid this petition was fairly unwise. Public legitimacy is probably the most fundamental source of government power, but control of the coin of the realm plays an absolutely critical role, too. Explicitly presenting bitcoin as competition for the coin of the realm while it is still small enough to squash like a bug is really asking for trouble.

People have tried circulating alternative currencies, sometimes with great success for their participants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%B6rgl#The_W.C3.B6rgl_Experiment), but governments will always shut them down as a threat to their power. If bitcoin gets serious traction, it will face this problem, too, but there is no need to invite the trouble in early.

iamzill

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Quote from: Cryptoman on September 29, 2011, 11:26:12 AM

Quote from: iamzill on September 29, 2011, 01:43:31 AM

Quote from: sadpandatech on September 28, 2011, 06:14:59 PM

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...

Exactly. Most people don't realize that "legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues" doesn't apply when you go into a store, because you're not incurring a debt. The store owner can legally refuse to accept whatever payment you present at his sole discretion.

You do incur a debt in a restaurant though, so technically speaking if you offer to pay for your meal in unrolled pennies the restaurant has no choice but to accept it.

Interestingly, I've seen exits on U.S. turnpikes that only accept the system's RF transponder for payment. Do you not incur a debt when you enter a turnpike? Why are federal reserve notes not accepted in payment of this debt? I suspect that this could be legally challenged.

Technically speaking they are accepting federal reserve notes, just not at the exit toll. If you get a friend to deliver the cash to their nearest office, they would be legally required to let your car through. It would probably take hours of arguments and confrontations, but it could be done. They have no right to forcibly confine you.

Cryptoman

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Quote from: iamzill on September 29, 2011, 01:43:31 AM

Quote from: sadpandatech on September 28, 2011, 06:14:59 PM

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...

Exactly. Most people don't realize that "legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues" doesn't apply when you go into a store, because you're not incurring a debt. The store owner can legally refuse to accept whatever payment you present at his sole discretion.

You do incur a debt in a restaurant though, so technically speaking if you offer to pay for your meal in unrolled pennies the restaurant has no choice but to accept it.

Interestingly, I've seen exits on U.S. turnpikes that only accept the system's RF transponder for payment. Do you not incur a debt when you enter a turnpike? Why are federal reserve notes not accepted in payment of this debt? I suspect that this could be legally challenged.

onesalt

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Quote from: NghtRppr on September 28, 2011, 06:17:49 PM

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Then read the signs on the door. Don't see the VISA logo? Guess what that means. They probably don't take VISA.

VISA is not a currency, it's a method of payment. Bitcoins are also a method of payment (albeit a horrifically convoluted one at this point in time due to currency exchange issues). Dollars however, are dollars wherever you go and while not everywhere will accept different methods of payment they will all do those methods of payment in dollars. Having physical money on me which I then cannot spend because places refuse to take it for no reason would screw a lot of people over for no obvious reason.

Not that it matters really, since currencies are self centralising. since it's more convenient for people to use a currency that more people accept and use it rapidly becomes dominated by one specific currency type because more people use it.

iamzill

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Activity: 677

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Quote from: sadpandatech on September 28, 2011, 06:14:59 PM

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...

Exactly. Most people don't realize that "legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues" doesn't apply when you go into a store, because you're not incurring a debt. The store owner can legally refuse to accept whatever payment you present at his sole discretion.

You do incur a debt in a restaurant though, so technically speaking if you offer to pay for your meal in unrolled pennies the restaurant has no choice but to accept it.

iamzill

sr. member

Activity: 677

Merit: 250

Quote from: FreeMoney on September 28, 2011, 11:37:53 AM

I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours?

They have guns, tanks, aircraft carriers, and thermonuclear weapons. I have nothing.

Herodes

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Activity: 868

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Quote from: wigglyuk on September 28, 2011, 11:40:29 AM

http://tinyurl.com/3pqwo7z shorter URL

http://42.no/3h shorter URL

(he he, sorry, could not resist Grin

)

k9quaint

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Quote from: NghtRppr on September 28, 2011, 06:17:49 PM

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Then read the signs on the door. Don't see the VISA logo? Guess what that means. They probably don't take VISA.

Or maybe they do if you give them the secret handshake and make the sign of the blockchain. Kiss

ctoon6

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Activity: 350

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i was under the impression that it was perfectly legal to use any currency you want, although debts must be paid in USD unless otherwise arranged beforehand. if you get ordered to pay money, it must be in USD. another funny example, if your car get impounded, by law they are required to take USD regardless of its form, so a few people have opted to pay in pennies, and by federal law, they are required to accept it, because the debt was not prearranged, or something along those lines. this is to protect you from absurd requirements to pay in silly things like half nickels and half dimes or some other crazy way, at least that's how i see it.

NghtRppr

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Elder Crypto God

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Then read the signs on the door. Don't see the VISA logo? Guess what that means. They probably don't take VISA.

sadpandatech

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Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 05:45:27 PM

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...

onesalt

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Activity: 756

Merit: 500

This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.

ThiagoCMC

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฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Quote from: petercyr on September 28, 2011, 11:16:06 AM

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/end-legal-tender-laws-allow-competing-currencies/0N8RLJ8K?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

Quote

we petition the obama administration to:
End Legal Tender Laws & Allow for Competing Currencies

The Federal Reserve System has done a miserable job, with or without a gold standard, of providing the correct amount of currency for the economy. One Federal Reserve Note in 2011 has the same purchasing power as three cents in 1913. This massive fiat money inflation has negatively affected the standard of living of all Americans. The Fed's manipulation of interest rates also correlates directly to the boom & bust cycles in the economy, which has resulted in terrible mis-allocations of labor & capital.

The Fed has lost credibility and should not have a currency monopoly. Congress has left us in a very vulnerable position relying on the FRN. The time has come to allow for currencies such as gold, silver, bitcoin, and whatever the market will bear to compete with the Federal Reserve Note.
Created: Sep 26, 2011

This massive fiat money inflation has negatively affected the standard of living of all Americans.

Why do you guys think that this do not affect the living off all human been on this planet?! Always it is all about Americans... There is LIFE outside US borders!! You know that!?

We all share this shit...

What FED does there, affects me here in Brazil, somebody in China, NZ, Spain, Portugal...

BTW, we do NOT need the government, HE needs us. So, just ignore them... They will be forgotten soon, with its useless laws, lawyers, wars and printed money...

I do not want / wish their blessing... I don't give a shit about what govs says... Because they says shit all the time... So, who cares!?

Best!
Thiago

Topic: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies (Read 3647 times)