Who controls the Bitcoins? - page 3.

deisik

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Quote from: Xenophoto on February 28, 2017, 11:01:14 AM

Quote from: Lecam on February 28, 2017, 08:07:38 AM

I think the stakeholders of bitcoins is the one who controls the bitcoin, because he or she can ise the bitcoin as he or she wanted. And because of the influences of many people who owns bitcoin it becomes more valuable.

Did you mean stockholder/shareholder? Because stakeholder is a another thing. Stakeholders don't have any share on the company, they simply depend on the company that if the company closes down, their business will close down as well. Since bitcoin is built by the market, stakeholders don't control bitcoin at all

I understand what you mean to say

But you are evidently misusing the term "stakeholder". As per dictionary, a stakeholder is "a person or group owning a significant percentage of a company's shares". I think the proper term to use here is affiliated or just dependent company. Nevertheless, shareholders and stakeholders (as you mean it) are basically in the same boat. If you are a small shareholder you are as irrelevant as a small stakeholder. On the other hand, even if you as a company depend on some other company, the latter can be heavily depending on you as well. For example, if you are a major consumer, your supplier may have serious issues too if you decide to change it

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Quote from: Lecam on February 28, 2017, 08:07:38 AM

I think the stakeholders of bitcoins is the one who controls the bitcoin, because he or she can ise the bitcoin as he or she wanted. And because of the influences of many people who owns bitcoin it becomes more valuable.

Did you mean stockholder/shareholder? Because stakeholder is a another thing. Stakeholders don't have any share on the company, they simply depend on the company that if the company closes down, their business will close down as well. Since bitcoin is built by the market, stakeholders don't control bitcoin at all.

If you look at it, we're all stockholders here because we all have a small chunk of the total bitcoin. But it in actuality, average guy like me don't matter at all as an individual. If I sell all my coins, no one will ever notice. Only ones that will have an effect on bitcoins if they pull out their money are the whales. They do have the ability to control bitcoins but since people know that someone selling a lot of coins every now and then is normal, they will not panic at all. Only problem is when the whales sell together just like what has happened in China.

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I think the stakeholders of bitcoins is the one who controls the bitcoin, because he or she can ise the bitcoin as he or she wanted. And because of the influences of many people who owns bitcoin it becomes more valuable.

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Quote from: danherbias07 on February 28, 2017, 07:51:30 AM

Quote from: TelolettOm on February 28, 2017, 07:39:40 AM

Quote from: PhilipPens on February 09, 2016, 04:15:29 AM

Who in the world controls the bitcoin? I don't understand where it appeared and how it began to be one of the official currencies?
Who controls the course of Bitcoin?

The person who controls the largest bitcoin bitcoin is the holder. they can make the price to go up and down. but it is not very significant

I am trying to understand what you said but it seems like there is no solution to it. Grin

If you mean the most holder of bitcoin then they are still not in control. He will only have a percentage of the entire bitcoin that have been mined which is scattered to every person. We dont even know how much is still alive and how much are buried in computers of the past miners who quit early. It will need a group of people who have large amount to make a wave but not control.

Who control the bitcoin? The answer for that is us the people who are using bitcoin because the bitcoin life is depend at the people who will use it. It's just simply law of supply and demand If the people are using bitcoin and then the users is growing and growing the price of the bitcoin will pump and pump. And if the people stop using bitcoin I mean all of people will not use it the bitcoin price will drop to 0$ the price and the bitcoin itself is depends on the user.

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Quote from: TelolettOm on February 28, 2017, 07:39:40 AM

Quote from: PhilipPens on February 09, 2016, 04:15:29 AM

Who in the world controls the bitcoin? I don't understand where it appeared and how it began to be one of the official currencies?
Who controls the course of Bitcoin?

The person who controls the largest bitcoin bitcoin is the holder. they can make the price to go up and down. but it is not very significant

I am trying to understand what you said but it seems like there is no solution to it. Grin

If you mean the most holder of bitcoin then they are still not in control. He will only have a percentage of the entire bitcoin that have been mined which is scattered to every person. We dont even know how much is still alive and how much are buried in computers of the past miners who quit early. It will need a group of people who have large amount to make a wave but not control.

TelolettOm

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Quote from: PhilipPens on February 09, 2016, 04:15:29 AM

Who in the world controls the bitcoin? I don't understand where it appeared and how it began to be one of the official currencies?
Who controls the course of Bitcoin?

The person who controls the largest bitcoin bitcoin is the holder. they can make the price to go up and down. but it is not very significant

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Quote from: deisik on February 26, 2017, 12:07:16 PM

Quote from: Fatanut on February 26, 2017, 01:06:00 AM

Quote from: Jasad on February 25, 2017, 06:22:12 PM

Quote from: bloodnest on February 19, 2017, 05:56:04 AM

I'd say no one really. It's decentralized but as for it's value that could be determined from a large range of factors: miners and the market. On another point, however, while you technically can do whatever with your Bitcoins, if they're in an exchange or wallet or whatever that's been ceased, hacked, or shut down, your control tapers off as what happened with Mt. Gox and China exchanges right now.

it is decentralized indeed , but how about the 51% attack?
do you think it will still make bitcoin uncontrollable?
i don't think so , at this point it was bitcoin weakness ,
and it could happened anytime , some people can control bitcoin.

I don't you have to worry about 51% attack at all. Mining farms nowadays cost billions of dollars. I don't think someone will invest much more than the best mining farms just to attack bitcoins. It would be much better if he's just going to mine bitcoins as well instead of attacking the network since attacking the network will decrease the price of bitcoins[1]. When bitcoin goes mainstream, there would be investors that will invest even more than the best mining farms of today

You seem to be confusing billions with millions

The whole market cap of Bitcoin is below 20B dollars at present, so there is no way some miner (or even all miners combined) could have invested that much in the mining equipment. Apart from that, there may still be a viable reason to perform (or make an attempt at performing) a 51% attack. If miners have already earned decent profits, they may collude to try this attack (basically, pretend to attack) to bring Bitcoin prices down to buy up cheap bitcoins (again). Besides, this is what we could well expect next from the Chinese authorities in the their ruthless fight with Bitcoin in China (and a lot more)

Oh, sorry. Grin

Anyway, you were right that after these miners have made profit or at least have got their ROI back, they might attack the bitcoin for that strategy or maybe it was their ulterior motive right from the start. We don't see anyone doing it right now (because if so there would be floods of articles about the 51% attacker). Maybe the ones that have invested the most haven't got his ROI yet or simply mining more bitcoins would be a far better move than attacking the network to lower the price and buy at low price or they simply don't have any intention to attack bitcoins at all. Regardless, if someone big does 51% attack, other miners will be aware of these (along with other attacks) and use it as a part of their strategy.

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Miners control bitcoin. Network in their hand and most from china. And they also control price. Wink

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Quote from: Fatanut on February 26, 2017, 01:06:00 AM

Quote from: Jasad on February 25, 2017, 06:22:12 PM

Quote from: bloodnest on February 19, 2017, 05:56:04 AM

I'd say no one really. It's decentralized but as for it's value that could be determined from a large range of factors: miners and the market. On another point, however, while you technically can do whatever with your Bitcoins, if they're in an exchange or wallet or whatever that's been ceased, hacked, or shut down, your control tapers off as what happened with Mt. Gox and China exchanges right now.

it is decentralized indeed , but how about the 51% attack?
do you think it will still make bitcoin uncontrollable?
i don't think so , at this point it was bitcoin weakness ,
and it could happened anytime , some people can control bitcoin.

I don't you have to worry about 51% attack at all. Mining farms nowadays cost billions of dollars. I don't think someone will invest much more than the best mining farms just to attack bitcoins. It would be much better if he's just going to mine bitcoins as well instead of attacking the network since attacking the network will decrease the price of bitcoins[1]. When bitcoin goes mainstream, there would be investors that will invest even more than the best mining farms of today

You seem to be confusing billions with millions

The whole market cap of Bitcoin is below 20B dollars at present, so there is no way some miner (or even all miners combined) could have invested that much in the mining equipment. Apart from that, there may still be a viable reason to perform (or make an attempt at performing) a 51% attack. If miners have already earned decent profits, they may collude to try this attack (basically, pretend to attack) to bring Bitcoin prices down to buy up cheap bitcoins (again). Besides, this is what we could well expect next from the Chinese authorities in the their ruthless fight with Bitcoin in China (and a lot more)

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Quote from: PhilipPens on February 09, 2016, 04:15:29 AM

Who in the world controls the bitcoin? I don't understand where it appeared and how it began to be one of the official currencies?
Who controls the course of Bitcoin?

Nobody controls the Bitcoin. It's fully decentralized Grin

Kabul

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Quote from: Fatanut on February 26, 2017, 01:06:00 AM

Quote from: Jasad on February 25, 2017, 06:22:12 PM

Quote from: bloodnest on February 19, 2017, 05:56:04 AM

I'd say no one really. It's decentralized but as for it's value that could be determined from a large range of factors: miners and the market. On another point, however, while you technically can do whatever with your Bitcoins, if they're in an exchange or wallet or whatever that's been ceased, hacked, or shut down, your control tapers off as what happened with Mt. Gox and China exchanges right now.

it is decentralized indeed , but how about the 51% attack?
do you think it will still make bitcoin uncontrollable?
i don't think so , at this point it was bitcoin weakness ,
and it could happened anytime , some people can control bitcoin.

I don't you have to worry about 51% attack at all. Mining farms nowadays cost billions of dollars. I don't think someone will invest much more than the best mining farms just to attack bitcoins. It would be much better if he's just going to mine bitcoins as well instead of attacking the network since attacking the network will decrease the price of bitcoins[1]. When bitcoin goes mainstream, there would be investors that will invest even more than the best mining farms of today.

[1] It will decrease the price of bitcoins because the investors will see that it's under attack. Thus, selling their coins.

I agree. 51% attack will cause negative effect not only on people who have bitcoin but also on the attackers. This event can lower the prices of bitcoin into 4 or even 10 times and it will make BItcoin worthless. Therefore,I think no one is insane enough to start this war

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Quote from: Jasad on February 25, 2017, 06:22:12 PM

Quote from: bloodnest on February 19, 2017, 05:56:04 AM

I'd say no one really. It's decentralized but as for it's value that could be determined from a large range of factors: miners and the market. On another point, however, while you technically can do whatever with your Bitcoins, if they're in an exchange or wallet or whatever that's been ceased, hacked, or shut down, your control tapers off as what happened with Mt. Gox and China exchanges right now.

it is decentralized indeed , but how about the 51% attack?
do you think it will still make bitcoin uncontrollable?
i don't think so , at this point it was bitcoin weakness ,
and it could happened anytime , some people can control bitcoin.

I don't you have to worry about 51% attack at all. Mining farms nowadays cost billions of dollars. I don't think someone will invest much more than the best mining farms just to attack bitcoins. It would be much better if he's just going to mine bitcoins as well instead of attacking the network since attacking the network will decrease the price of bitcoins[1]. When bitcoin goes mainstream, there would be investors that will invest even more than the best mining farms of today.

[1] It will decrease the price of bitcoins because the investors will see that it's under attack. Thus, selling their coins.

roomfirst

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Quote from: PhilipPens on February 09, 2016, 04:15:29 AM

Who in the world controls the bitcoin? I don't understand where it appeared and how it began to be one of the official currencies?
Who controls the course of Bitcoin?

I think no one can control the bitcoin, i mean all people who have bitcoins can do anything with their coins. Even satoshi can't control bitcoin ? CMIIW. Actually The "whale" people can control the bitcoin at the price, i mean people who have many bitcoins on their wallet, like 1k - 10k bitcoins or even more. They can give a big significant about up and down on the price of bitcoin.

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Quote from: PhilipPens on February 09, 2016, 04:15:29 AM

Who in the world controls the bitcoin? I don't understand where it appeared and how it began to be one of the official currencies?
Who controls the course of Bitcoin?

No one controls the bitcoin. It’s the whole Bitcoin community control it altogether. Satoshi Nakamoto developed the concept of Bitcoin but he never had full control it. Bitcoin is decentralized, even the banks and government couldn't control it.

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Quote from: bloodnest on February 19, 2017, 05:56:04 AM

I'd say no one really. It's decentralized but as for it's value that could be determined from a large range of factors: miners and the market. On another point, however, while you technically can do whatever with your Bitcoins, if they're in an exchange or wallet or whatever that's been ceased, hacked, or shut down, your control tapers off as what happened with Mt. Gox and China exchanges right now.

it is decentralized indeed , but how about the 51% attack?
do you think it will still make bitcoin uncontrollable?
i don't think so , at this point it was bitcoin weakness ,
and it could happened anytime , some people can control bitcoin.

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Quote from: 19Nov16 on February 20, 2017, 04:48:55 AM

I'm sure there's a very dominant bitcoin owner so it could control the price. and I'm sure that china is the owner who dominated the bitcoin. This we can see that the price of exchangers in china are the largest.

That's when the bitcoin bank, and it was then a question of itself will disappear by itself, because it is bitcoin bank will complete and absolute controlling authority in the field of bitcoin.

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Quote from: Monnt on February 23, 2017, 01:59:20 PM

Quote from: TastyChillySauce00 on February 20, 2017, 04:50:11 AM

Quote from: nyanhtet on February 20, 2017, 02:27:15 AM

Normally we can tell China control Bitcoin. Most of Miners are china, mining hardwares from china, network is centralized day by day.

Doesn't mean China has controls over it as a whole. They're having the majority of mining powers indeed, but, other countries also have, I can't argue that China could affect the network and give pretty big impact.
Just hope that things will get more decentralised in the future.

It all depends, since electricity is very cheap in China means that the bitcoin miners there have a really good way to make profit even if they let their mining machine go for a whole day, so bitcoin is pretty common around china, and that makes them have a really big portion of the bitcoin 70% of user base and that is a lot so they pretty much control it.

You can zoom in blocks may change the scope of influence. The Chinese are really one of the most popular bitcoin miners, but 2mb today is very small.

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Quote from: oktana on February 19, 2017, 05:22:02 AM

Quote from: GalacticEmpire on February 19, 2017, 04:43:10 AM

Bitcoin is decentralised which is a huge part of the reason for its existence, therefore no one controls Bitcoin. It was created by the anonymous persona Satoshi Nakamoto, satoshi being the smallest unit of Bitcoin. Everyone who uses Bitcoin controls it in a way, because they control where the transactions go, run services, give business to services, etc.

Some people like to argue that China controls Bitcoin, but the reality is that people in China are some of the people using Bitcoin, which doesn't limit people in other countries using or mining it at all. Arguably, miners have a lot of power over Bitcoin especially since to mine profitably you need quite big businesses now.

FIAT currency created by country's financial institutions, it's able to be controlled by government, Bitcoin can't be controlled by anyone (not yet), except Satoshi Nakamoto emerged as the bitcoin center when first launched. We can only control bitcoin prices gradually. In this case, trade market in full control of the price movement.

What influences price of bitcoin with all sorts of trading market in China?

Because there is a very high trading volume than other places. But it's only temporary, because other countries have started intend to take over position of bitcoin prices, and was followed by an injection of funds of state banks, Japan is one of them.

Satoshi bitcoin sent to float freely, and are now almost no one can affect the bitcoin. Although if artificially to fallen or risen price.

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Quote from: TastyChillySauce00 on February 20, 2017, 04:50:11 AM

Quote from: nyanhtet on February 20, 2017, 02:27:15 AM

Normally we can tell China control Bitcoin. Most of Miners are china, mining hardwares from china, network is centralized day by day.

Doesn't mean China has controls over it as a whole. They're having the majority of mining powers indeed, but, other countries also have, I can't argue that China could affect the network and give pretty big impact.
Just hope that things will get more decentralised in the future.

It all depends, since electricity is very cheap in China means that the bitcoin miners there have a really good way to make profit even if they let their mining machine go for a whole day, so bitcoin is pretty common around china, and that makes them have a really big portion of the bitcoin 70% of user base and that is a lot so they pretty much control it.

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Quote from: nyanhtet on February 20, 2017, 02:27:15 AM

Normally we can tell China control Bitcoin. Most of Miners are china, mining hardwares from china, network is centralized day by day.

Doesn't mean China has controls over it as a whole. They're having the majority of mining powers indeed, but, other countries also have, I can't argue that China could affect the network and give pretty big impact.
Just hope that things will get more decentralised in the future.

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