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Topic: Who really owns and manages Bitcoin? (Read 1016 times)

hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 500
July 20, 2016, 07:17:28 AM
#28
The really one who owns and manage bitcoins are those bitcoin enthusiast who continualy investing and patronizing it in their daily life routine, as long as there are people who believe in bitcoins including me.  We the communities own it and manage it also. Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 14, 2016, 02:25:34 PM
#27
i think no one still know the reality and that is the plus point of bitcoin that still no one know about the owner of bitocin.some people are claiming that Satoshi is the owner of bitcoin. ever some claims that they are satoshi themselves. but they are just kidding and giving false statement.
staff
Activity: 4242
Merit: 8672
July 14, 2016, 01:13:52 PM
#26
You can clearly see who can approve new code in GitHub here.
No, you can't-- that is listing org members (and not even all of them since some have set themselves to private-- in fact, when you linked to it I noticed I was set to private and just fixed that, there are 22). It's the list of people who can be assigned to trouble tickets.

There is no set of people who can "approve code", except all the users of Bitcoin-- there are no automatic updates for a reason.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4794
July 14, 2016, 10:51:10 AM
#25
Does that mean that if I choose to create my own repository, it will work and be compatible with the current software running Bitcoin.

Absolutely!

  • Log into GitHub.
  • Go to the Bitcoin Core repository:
    https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
  • Click the "Fork" button (note, this does NOT fork the blockchain. It just creates a copy of the existing code and puts that copy under your control)

You'll have your own copy of the source code that you have control over and that will be 100% compatible with the existing Bitcoin Core.  Change it as much as you like, and as long as you don't change any of the consensus rules, or communications protocols, it will remain compatible with the existing Bitcoin Core.  Get your friends, family, and complete strangers all to start using your software. If enough people choose to use your code instead of the currently existing code, you will be the one in charge of what gets into bitcoin.  If your code becomes influential enough (the vast majority of users are choosing to use wallets that are based off of your code), and you change a consensus rule, then the blockchain will fork and your bitcoin will be the "real" bitcoin, while that old code that no longer has any influence will become irrelevant. Of course, if people don't like your consensus change, they can always go back to that old code, or can create their own code fork.  If too many people don't like the change you've made, then you'll lose influence to some other code that people like better.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
July 14, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
#24
I'd like you to clarify me and the whole community how is Bitcoin really managed.

It is not.

Who the hell controls the code?

Which code? Electrum? MultiBit? Coinbase? F2Pool? Eligius? Bitcoin-Qt?  They each have their own developers and each have their own people in control.

Obviously, when you go into GitHub you can clearly see the 12 people behind the Bitcoin project.

It looks like you are only asking about the Bitcoin-Qt (also called the "Bitcoin Core") code? There is NOTHING OFFICIAL about that code.  That is just one repository that a group of developers have chosen to contribute to, and which some people choose to use.  It currently has a lot of influence only because a lot of people like to use it.  If people decided they liked a different repository instead, then that current repository would lose all its influence.

I ask who are those people

They are the people that have chosen to voluntarily spend a lot of their own time working on that version of the code.

how they got to have the divine power to control the source code of a project with market capitalization of $10,000,000,000?

They don't control all the source code. They only control Bitcoin Core.  Anyone else can create any code they want without any permission required from anyone.

Did Satoshi Nakamato choose them?

Nope.  They just started contributing all on their own.

Aren't 12 guys deficient to run such a project?

Well, it would be nice if more people would contribute, but I'm not going to force someone to contribute if they don't want to.

Can't they maliciously exploit the system in some way?

If the users are foolish enough to believe that anything those guys put out is automatically acceptable, then yes, they can exploit that foolishness.  If the users are astute enough to review changes and are careful not to run maliciously exploitative code, then no.

- snip -
My code may be good enough for the Bitcoin community but it may harm the developers' interest.
- snip -

Then fork the code and convince the Bitcoin community to use your better code.  If you can convince enough of the community that your code is better, then those other developers become powerless.  If the community doesn't like your code and prefers the code that the other developers are putting out, then they can keep running the other code.  Either way, the community gets what they want.

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

No, they don't.  They only have power to approve the new code that is accepted into that particular GitHub repository.  You are welcome to create your own repository, choose what is accepted to your repository, convince other developers to contribute to your repository, and convince users to use your code.

Being Open Source doesn't give you or the community any control over the codebase...

Of course it does.  You can control your own version of the codebase all you want.  If you create something that other users want, then they will use your code instead of the other repository.

Nobody knows how is the code of outside contributors is approved.

It is reviewed and discussed, and if the person in control of that repository is convinced to add it, he does.

One piece of code can make much sense to one developer and in the same time no sense to other developer!

Which is why it is reviewed and discussed by multiple developers.

And what is this code patches a security hole?

As long as it doesn't do anything else that isn't wanted, then it will probably be accepted.  Or you could just add it to your own version so others that want the patch can have it.

If anyone could just update the code would be complete chaos, of course.

Nope.  Anyone can change the code.  All you need to do is convince people to use your version.

But how the hell did those 12 people came to be the maintainers of this HUGE project.

They work on the code, and people like what they are doing, so people use the code that they create.

Were they democratically elected?

Effectively, yes.  They create code, and the community "votes" by either choosing to use the code that they create, or choosing to use someone else's code.

Could they be criminals?

Yes, they could.

Are they even the guys they say to be?

Probably.  Why would it matter?  Either they create code that people want, or they don't.


Great answer Danny!

Quote
It looks like you are only asking about the Bitcoin-Qt (also called the "Bitcoin Core") code? There is NOTHING OFFICIAL about that code.  That is just one repository that a group of developers have chosen to contribute to, and which some people choose to use.  It currently has a lot of influence only because a lot of people like to use it.  If people decided they liked a different repository instead, then that current repository would lose all its influence.

Does that mean that if I choose to create my own repository, it will work and be compatible with the current software running Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1402
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
July 13, 2016, 02:24:34 PM
#23
Maybe, these people are the first miners (I guess, friends of the creator of BTC). However,we shouldn't forget it can be Nakamoto, because Nakamoto can be a group of people from the very beginning
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
July 13, 2016, 01:49:24 PM
#22
OP, you should not take any of these negative statements and comments too seriously.. You never know who is behind these comments and what their agendas are. Bitcoin have loads of enemies and

competitors and people are even paid to spread fud to try and damage it. No matter what changes are accepted, it will always be scrutinized by other people in the community and then we need to get

consensus from the majority to implement it. Nobody will just be able to sneak in malicious code.... but they still try. {Bitcoin XT}  Wink
hero member
Activity: 2646
Merit: 582
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
July 13, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
#21
I do not exactly know "who" owns Bitcoin but as far as I know, bitcoin is owned by the community, for the community and the devs are only there for the improvement of the blockchain tech and fixing issues, if there are any.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4794
July 13, 2016, 12:14:17 PM
#20
I'd like you to clarify me and the whole community how is Bitcoin really managed.

It is not.

Who the hell controls the code?

Which code? Electrum? MultiBit? Coinbase? F2Pool? Eligius? Bitcoin-Qt?  They each have their own developers and each have their own people in control.

Obviously, when you go into GitHub you can clearly see the 12 people behind the Bitcoin project.

It looks like you are only asking about the Bitcoin-Qt (also called the "Bitcoin Core") code? There is NOTHING OFFICIAL about that code.  That is just one repository that a group of developers have chosen to contribute to, and which some people choose to use.  It currently has a lot of influence only because a lot of people like to use it.  If people decided they liked a different repository instead, then that current repository would lose all its influence.

I ask who are those people

They are the people that have chosen to voluntarily spend a lot of their own time working on that version of the code.

how they got to have the divine power to control the source code of a project with market capitalization of $10,000,000,000?

They don't control all the source code. They only control Bitcoin Core.  Anyone else can create any code they want without any permission required from anyone.

Did Satoshi Nakamato choose them?

Nope.  They just started contributing all on their own.

Aren't 12 guys deficient to run such a project?

Well, it would be nice if more people would contribute, but I'm not going to force someone to contribute if they don't want to.

Can't they maliciously exploit the system in some way?

If the users are foolish enough to believe that anything those guys put out is automatically acceptable, then yes, they can exploit that foolishness.  If the users are astute enough to review changes and are careful not to run maliciously exploitative code, then no.

- snip -
My code may be good enough for the Bitcoin community but it may harm the developers' interest.
- snip -

Then fork the code and convince the Bitcoin community to use your better code.  If you can convince enough of the community that your code is better, then those other developers become powerless.  If the community doesn't like your code and prefers the code that the other developers are putting out, then they can keep running the other code.  Either way, the community gets what they want.

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

No, they don't.  They only have power to approve the new code that is accepted into that particular GitHub repository.  You are welcome to create your own repository, choose what is accepted to your repository, convince other developers to contribute to your repository, and convince users to use your code.

Being Open Source doesn't give you or the community any control over the codebase...

Of course it does.  You can control your own version of the codebase all you want.  If you create something that other users want, then they will use your code instead of the other repository.

Nobody knows how is the code of outside contributors is approved.

It is reviewed and discussed, and if the person in control of that repository is convinced to add it, he does.

One piece of code can make much sense to one developer and in the same time no sense to other developer!

Which is why it is reviewed and discussed by multiple developers.

And what is this code patches a security hole?

As long as it doesn't do anything else that isn't wanted, then it will probably be accepted.  Or you could just add it to your own version so others that want the patch can have it.

If anyone could just update the code would be complete chaos, of course.

Nope.  Anyone can change the code.  All you need to do is convince people to use your version.

But how the hell did those 12 people came to be the maintainers of this HUGE project.

They work on the code, and people like what they are doing, so people use the code that they create.

Were they democratically elected?

Effectively, yes.  They create code, and the community "votes" by either choosing to use the code that they create, or choosing to use someone else's code.

Could they be criminals?

Yes, they could.

Are they even the guys they say to be?

Probably.  Why would it matter?  Either they create code that people want, or they don't.
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
July 13, 2016, 10:29:12 AM
#19
Bitcoin don't have any paid developer working for some payment thats why there is no any big announcement coming as bitcoin dev. However developer community dedicated for bitcoin are working voluntarily whenever it is needed thats why bitcoin is completely decentralized other than still million of coin unknown creator "satoshi" is holding.
legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1054
July 13, 2016, 10:23:10 AM
#18
I often read 'it's open source, anyone can contribute'. I'd love to know how many contributions from total outsiders have been integrated. I'm going to guess it's not very many.

i guess if someone wants to contribute he has to prove to be trustworthy.  but the codes being opensource created a lot of bitcoin like coins.
 this is why you can see there are tons of altcoins.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
July 13, 2016, 10:22:42 AM
#17
Who put those 12 people in charge of Bitcoin?

The 12 people dont really have all too much to say.

Some people say they r clowns, or public faces, or developers.

Some of these attributes, or all or any of these attributes may or may not apply

But Bitcoin is more than any people could ever be because it is a different breed

It is open source blockchain technology from the future for now and beyond

~CfA~

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

Being Open Source doesn't give you or the community any control over the codebase...


The problem is that there need to be some control, if anyone could just update the code whenever they please it would be pure chaos not to mention extremely risky for everyone.
And since there are no laws to protect the community, all we have is trust. Having a community where everyone is equal and there are no leaders sounds ideal but it wouldn't work in practice.

If anyone could just update the code would be complete chaos, of course. But how the hell did those 12 people came to be the maintainers of this HUGE project.

Were they democratically elected? Could they be criminals? Are they even the guys they say to be?
hero member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 655
July 13, 2016, 10:19:41 AM
#16
Who put those 12 people in charge of Bitcoin?

The 12 people dont really have all too much to say.

Some people say they r clowns, or public faces, or developers.

Some of these attributes, or all or any of these attributes may or may not apply

But Bitcoin is more than any people could ever be because it is a different breed

It is open source blockchain technology from the future for now and beyond

~CfA~

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

Being Open Source doesn't give you or the community any control over the codebase...


actually i believe that the community has a great power in this. imagine they add a code that you don't like (i can't give any example nothing comes to mind) but if a lot of users don't like it they will simply stop using bitcoin or stick to the old version and the new one will become abandoned by the community. so they will be forced to remedy that.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
July 13, 2016, 10:16:04 AM
#15
Who put those 12 people in charge of Bitcoin?

The 12 people dont really have all too much to say.

Some people say they r clowns, or public faces, or developers.

Some of these attributes, or all or any of these attributes may or may not apply

But Bitcoin is more than any people could ever be because it is a different breed

It is open source blockchain technology from the future for now and beyond

~CfA~

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

Being Open Source doesn't give you or the community any control over the codebase...


The problem is that there need to be some control, if anyone could just update the code whenever they please it would be pure chaos not to mention extremely risky for everyone.
And since there are no laws to protect the community, all we have is trust. Having a community where everyone is equal and there are no leaders sounds ideal but it wouldn't work in practice.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
July 13, 2016, 10:09:08 AM
#14
Who put those 12 people in charge of Bitcoin?

The 12 people dont really have all too much to say.

Some people say they r clowns, or public faces, or developers.

Some of these attributes, or all or any of these attributes may or may not apply

But Bitcoin is more than any people could ever be because it is a different breed

It is open source blockchain technology from the future for now and beyond

~CfA~

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

Being Open Source doesn't give you and the community any control over the codebase...


Why do u say that is so?

Where do u see proof that 12 people have the ultimate power to approve a new code?

~CfA~

You can clearly see who can approve new code in GitHub here.

And here.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
July 13, 2016, 10:05:12 AM
#13
One piece of code can make much sense to one developer and in the same time no sense to other developer!

All of them are human. And it's human nature to favour a contribution from someone you know or yourself even if it's technically inferior.

I'm not technically proficient at all, but I've noticed Core types being very quick to pick apart any ideas that don't come from the inner sanctum. It seems to be a knee jerk reaction.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
July 13, 2016, 10:01:51 AM
#12
I often read 'it's open source, anyone can contribute'. I'd love to know how many contributions from total outsiders have been integrated. I'm going to guess it's not very many.

Exactly! Nobody knows how is the code of outside contributors is approved. One piece of code can make much sense to one developer and in the same time no sense to other developer!

And what is this code patches a security hole?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 520
July 13, 2016, 09:56:09 AM
#11
Who put those 12 people in charge of Bitcoin?

The 12 people dont really have all too much to say.

Some people say they r clowns, or public faces, or developers.

Some of these attributes, or all or any of these attributes may or may not apply

But Bitcoin is more than any people could ever be because it is a different breed

It is open source blockchain technology from the future for now and beyond

~CfA~

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

Being Open Source doesn't give you and the community any control over the codebase...


Why do u say that is so?

Where do u see proof that 12 people have the ultimate power to approve a new code?

~CfA~
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
July 13, 2016, 09:56:04 AM
#10
I often read 'it's open source, anyone can contribute'. I'd love to know how many contributions from total outsiders have been integrated. I'm going to guess it's not very many.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
July 13, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
#9
Who put those 12 people in charge of Bitcoin?

The 12 people dont really have all too much to say.

Some people say they r clowns, or public faces, or developers.

Some of these attributes, or all or any of these attributes may or may not apply

But Bitcoin is more than any people could ever be because it is a different breed

It is open source blockchain technology from the future for now and beyond

~CfA~

Well, these 12 people have the ultimate power to approve the new code, which is too much of a power!

Being Open Source doesn't give you or the community any control over the codebase...
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