Who sets the bitcoin price? - page 2.

BitcoinHunt3r

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Quote from: akram143 on September 23, 2020, 01:12:07 PM

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on September 20, 2020, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 20, 2020, 03:04:11 AM

Thoughts about whales/organizations do have a solid foundation.
Obviously, large capital holders (both in bitcoin and in dollars and in mining capacities) can influence the market very strongly. Perhaps because of this, someone makes the erroneous conclusion that whales "own" the market.

The market does not belong to the whales but they often play with the price of bitcoin. Whales have the ability to improvise bitcoin price because they have a lot of capital. Supply and demand are thing that forever affect the price of bitcoin and it is trader who do.

I agree that exchange can manipulate bitcoin price within a certain range and we often hear that they also have fake volume and this is purely for the benefit of the organization itself.

Manipulation can bring serious damage if there is a manipulation comes along with some incident related to cryptos, fale volumes not really affect the market but the quick change in the market movement does and more often newbies are the one to get trapped with these kind of whale manipulation.

Maybe with that, people must learn first how to be good trader before they start to do trading, i mean maybe for some people, it is good to learn with practice but for basic, i think it will be good if people learn first at least how to choose good market so they are not trapped into price manipulation.

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Quote from: BITCOIN4X on September 20, 2020, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 20, 2020, 03:04:11 AM

Thoughts about whales/organizations do have a solid foundation.
Obviously, large capital holders (both in bitcoin and in dollars and in mining capacities) can influence the market very strongly. Perhaps because of this, someone makes the erroneous conclusion that whales "own" the market.

The market does not belong to the whales but they often play with the price of bitcoin. Whales have the ability to improvise bitcoin price because they have a lot of capital. Supply and demand are thing that forever affect the price of bitcoin and it is trader who do.

I agree that exchange can manipulate bitcoin price within a certain range and we often hear that they also have fake volume and this is purely for the benefit of the organization itself.

Manipulation can bring serious damage if there is a manipulation comes along with some incident related to cryptos, fale volumes not really affect the market but the quick change in the market movement does and more often newbies are the one to get trapped with these kind of whale manipulation.

pokeronlinestatus

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Probably there are people out there who thinks that "if I can't see it, that means you can't see therefore you can't know it neither" idea as well, obviously this is not true because even though we can't see it we know the idea that bitcoin can't be something that could be controlled by anyone.

However all these tinfoil hat people keep thinking and saying that whales could buy and sell to manipulate the market, which I am not going to deny, they are sort of right by the fact that the "price" of bitcoin can be controlled, even if bitcoin itself can't but if a person is rich enough, like let's say they have 30k bitcoin or have 200 million dollars, they could simply just buy or sell and make the price move, however as long as we do not allow them they can't do anything in control part of the deal.

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Quote from: BITCOIN4X on September 20, 2020, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on September 20, 2020, 03:04:11 AM

Thoughts about whales/organizations do have a solid foundation.
Obviously, large capital holders (both in bitcoin and in dollars and in mining capacities) can influence the market very strongly. Perhaps because of this, someone makes the erroneous conclusion that whales "own" the market.

The market does not belong to the whales but they often play with the price of bitcoin. Whales have the ability to improvise bitcoin price because they have a lot of capital. Supply and demand are thing that forever affect the price of bitcoin and it is trader who do.

I agree that exchange can manipulate bitcoin price within a certain range and we often hear that they also have fake volume and this is purely for the benefit of the organization itself.

So whales are completely not market controllers but they have strong support in capital to be played with in terms of prices in the market, maybe there is an organization where they will act with strong capital and that can also affect prices and supply and demand can be changed by those who are capable of the organization.

But I believe the whales are only slightly fixed with the price movements in the market because of the trend or news that causes all traders to act not only the whales but still not dependent on the news from the whales.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: KTChampions on September 20, 2020, 03:04:11 AM

Thoughts about whales/organizations do have a solid foundation.
Obviously, large capital holders (both in bitcoin and in dollars and in mining capacities) can influence the market very strongly. Perhaps because of this, someone makes the erroneous conclusion that whales "own" the market.

The market does not belong to the whales but they often play with the price of bitcoin. Whales have the ability to improvise bitcoin price because they have a lot of capital. Supply and demand are thing that forever affect the price of bitcoin and it is trader who do.

I agree that exchange can manipulate bitcoin price within a certain range and we often hear that they also have fake volume and this is purely for the benefit of the organization itself.

lepbagong

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Quote from: bitbunnny on September 19, 2020, 01:55:48 PM

It seems that this question is bothering some users from time to time. If you are focused on traditional finances it's hard to be convinced that Bitcoin is independent currency that is not tied to any financial authority, central bank or similar. Some even think that whales control Bitcoin fully including determing of price. Some also believe that some individuals or organisation are standing behind Bitcoin and influence the price.
For nothing of that there is no proof so Bitcoin price is defined by market, by demand and supply ratio.

it is understandable that not all also know what you say because all still think that your bitcoin controls and manages it so that to benefit someone, this still often happens to the minds of people who are new to know even maybe it's old but still influenced by something that is not occurred to them.
hopefully what you explain can explain well and no longer be a polemic to be questioned.

all colleagues can understand the explanation in the last paragraph.

KTChampions

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Quote from: bitbunnny on September 19, 2020, 01:55:48 PM

It seems that this question is bothering some users from time to time. If you are focused on traditional finances it's hard to be convinced that Bitcoin is independent currency that is not tied to any financial authority, central bank or similar. Some even think that whales control Bitcoin fully including determing of price. Some also believe that some individuals or organisation are standing behind Bitcoin and influence the price.
For nothing of that there is no proof so Bitcoin price is defined by market, by demand and supply ratio.

Thoughts about whales/organizations do have a solid foundation.
Obviously, large capital holders (both in bitcoin and in dollars and in mining capacities) can influence the market very strongly. Perhaps because of this, someone makes the erroneous conclusion that whales "own" the market.
As for organizations (exchanges), there are similarly certain grounds for such thoughts: now most of the bitcoin trading takes place there and the price of bitcoin is determined there. If we take into account the factor of fake volumes, then we must admit that the exchanges have great opportunities to manipulate (within certain limits) the price of bitcoin.

bitbunnny

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It seems that this question is bothering some users from time to time. If you are focused on traditional finances it's hard to be convinced that Bitcoin is independent currency that is not tied to any financial authority, central bank or similar. Some even think that whales control Bitcoin fully including determing of price. Some also believe that some individuals or organisation are standing behind Bitcoin and influence the price.
For nothing of that there is no proof so Bitcoin price is defined by market, by demand and supply ratio.

STT

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Bitcoin also has a cost to it, opportunity cost, technology cost and power is quite a large amount of the cost of running it. Theres a large cost behind BTC to be part of the network, its scaled over time on purpose and its part of the protocol to control supply and competition on the network.

Quote

you spend at least few thousand dollars on that paper,

Paper money is far cheaper to create, most of the dollar supply is never printed just entered on a spreadsheet with another zero on the end it couldn't be easier and the supply has no control besides politics which has corrupted any proper dollar standard.

peter0425

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Quote from: Ayiranorea on September 19, 2020, 08:43:44 AM

The demand to the supply is the factor that decides the value. This doesn't have any intrinsic value same as that gold has got. At times the miners were also responsible for the fluctuation with the market price of bitcoin. The large volume holders have the ability to manipulate the market, but this too is limited. Beyond certain point this gets served as a wave and the market moves irrespective of the demand to supply.

In clear answer?no one controls the price of Bitcoin but Us who buy and sell/use this right?
and also to @OP never compared Bitcoin into anything as same value because this is different specially in Gold and Fiat.

Quote from: okala on September 16, 2020, 01:43:07 AM

To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

manipulation?this has not proven so until now we are just thinking that this is happening but we are blind in reality.

Ayiranorea

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The demand to the supply is the factor that decides the value. This doesn't have any intrinsic value same as that gold has got. At times the miners were also responsible for the fluctuation with the market price of bitcoin. The large volume holders have the ability to manipulate the market, but this too is limited. Beyond certain point this gets served as a wave and the market moves irrespective of the demand to supply.

justdimin

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The greatest supply and demand product in history is definitely bitcoin right now, I do not think I have seen any that was as this much as before. Think about it, gold and all other things in finance, including fiat, everything had a material worth, even paper money has paper cost, when you print out 1 billion dollars, you spend at least few thousand dollars on that paper, probably more than we assume and you are destroying plants and trees and hurt the world so forth, there is a lot of stuff.

Gold the same way, there are ways you can use gold that is not financial, it could be used to make stuff as well. Bitcoin is not like that, bitcoin only has value because we give it value and it is not like art where only few does it, it is quite hugely common and big enough that there are tens of thousands, maybe millions give it value.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 16, 2020, 07:09:45 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on September 16, 2020, 04:48:23 AM

Quote from: okala on September 16, 2020, 01:43:07 AM

To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

I was always thinking, that the price is regulated by supply and demand. I disagree that Bitcoin price is regulated by whales. Do you know that top10-100 bitcoin whale address are known (as blockchain is transparent) and

It level of demand and supply of Bitcoin in the market that determine the price of Bitcoin in the market, what Okala dont understand is that the whales only influence the market and not by any way set Bitcoin market price.

Quote from: bakasabo on September 16, 2020, 04:48:23 AM

everyone can observe what whales do with their Bitcoin. That means everyone is free to predict what whales plan to do next.

With the help of coinjoin and others privacy waller all the whales activities can be observed and it not every crypto investors that have knowledge in market analysis.

I do tend to agree that by now it is a supply and demand issue and less determined by whales or groups. In the past for sure it was manipulated as volume was much lower than now. But massive buys and sells get swallowed so quickly now.

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Quote from: bakasabo on September 16, 2020, 04:48:23 AM

Quote from: okala on September 16, 2020, 01:43:07 AM

To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

I was always thinking, that the price is regulated by supply and demand. I disagree that Bitcoin price is regulated by whales. Do you know that top10-100 bitcoin whale address are known (as blockchain is transparent) and

It level of demand and supply of Bitcoin in the market that determine the price of Bitcoin in the market, what Okala dont understand is that the whales only influence the market and not by any way set Bitcoin market price.

Quote from: bakasabo on September 16, 2020, 04:48:23 AM

everyone can observe what whales do with their Bitcoin. That means everyone is free to predict what whales plan to do next.

With the help of coinjoin and others privacy waller all the whales activities can be observed and it not every crypto investors that have knowledge in market analysis.

glowing10

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Quote from: okala on September 16, 2020, 01:43:07 AM

To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

Not always whales can set the price, but yes when the whales buy in bulk or sell in bulk it does affect the price and accordingly it moves but also there are millions of other investors or traders who also buy/sell and when all of them start to sell or buy it will also play a major role. So, it’s going to be the demand and supply that decides on which side the major quantity exists either it is for buy or for sell and accordingly the price is in market.

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Quote from: okala on September 16, 2020, 01:43:07 AM

To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

I was always thinking, that the price is regulated by supply and demand. I disagree that Bitcoin price is regulated by whales. Do you know that top10-100 bitcoin whale address are known (as blockchain is transparent) and everyone can observe what whales do with their Bitcoin. That means everyone is free to predict what whales plan to do next. You can spot that large amount of Bitcoins are moved to an exchange - means they are going to make an impact on the price. But in reality that does not work that way. In fact, part of the whales simply hold Bitcoins in their wallets. So how can holding or foreseen movement really impact on the price ?

No, the whales does not set the price.

arwin100

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Quote from: STT on September 15, 2020, 03:29:06 PM

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Bitcoin is managed by a company

The whole point of crypto is that its not centralised but then some people think Ripple is the future and is perfectly comparable and superior even to BTC so go figure, we'll have to work through why thats not true and hopefully regain the value in BTC thats lost to FIAT digital like that.

Nobody sets the BTC price, its off the leash and there is multiple layers to how it transforms over time. The base price for BTC is quite different to the speculative waves that hit us and are quite obvious running in line with main market sentiments. I know I trade crypto on the same account I share with shares and all kinds of conventional assets, so I imagine its quite common now that the currency flows are speculated.

Many think that whales are in full control of the market condition of bitcoin but actually this scenario is totally not true since whales need a full cooperation of community that's why some of them creates fud just to create panic and make the market dumped, We see this fud scene keep coming and we don't see whales controlling the market although they have a highest advantages since they have big funds to trade but that is not enough.

Quote from: okala on September 16, 2020, 01:43:07 AM

To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

I believe this is not true.

okala

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To my understanding, the bitcoin price is set by the whales. Many time we see were market will be moving in a particular direction only for it to be push in an opposite direction because of interest of whales.

STT

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Quote

Bitcoin is managed by a company

The whole point of crypto is that its not centralised but then some people think Ripple is the future and is perfectly comparable and superior even to BTC so go figure, we'll have to work through why thats not true and hopefully regain the value in BTC thats lost to FIAT digital like that.

Nobody sets the BTC price, its off the leash and there is multiple layers to how it transforms over time. The base price for BTC is quite different to the speculative waves that hit us and are quite obvious running in line with main market sentiments. I know I trade crypto on the same account I share with shares and all kinds of conventional assets, so I imagine its quite common now that the currency flows are speculated.

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Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on September 08, 2020, 05:40:56 PM

Quote from: Robertshon on September 04, 2020, 03:31:43 PM

Many people who new in the crypto world think that Bitcoin is managed by a company and the owners hold all of the Bitcoin and they are selling them into the market when they need the money that's why Bitcoin price is change daily.

Don't think this statement is true instead it's more like most new comers think this business is like that of a ponzi scheme that the early Investors holding lots of bitcoin bags offload it to the new comers. This false reasoning make them fomo into buying bitcoin at its peak with the hopes of having the privilege over the others that'll join the market after they did.

Majority of the users joining the industry are doing so for the fast or quick gains the industry provides. They're are great opportunity to double and some times even 10x your capital in matter of weeks or even days. This cloud the new Investors reasoning which make they fall prey to manipulation from the whales. Since they (the whales) can manipulate the way we see the market in regards to supply and demand, I think it's safer to say they set the price of the market.

For altcoin or shitcoins then this one is indeed true and applicable but for Bitcoin and other top altcoins which do have high liquidity its impossible to think that whales would have always the full control.
Of course they do had impact since they are financially capabled but the market cant really be just easy to manipulate as they like.It always goes to sellers and buyers when we do talk about bitcoin price.
Theres no institution nor group do set the price in the market.It all matters with that basic economics class subject but we cant deny the other factors that can heavily affect it.
Its really just a bad perception or way of introduction on why other people fall into this industry without even knowing the reality.

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