And who keeps them and awards them to miners??
Just asking, newbie here
Topic: Why 21,000,000 Supply? (Read 582 times)
If all these coins have to be mined, where are they stored?
And who keeps them and awards them to miners??
Just asking, newbie here
And who keeps them and awards them to miners??
Just asking, newbie here
Maybe he meant it to be the 21st century money xD
I have another theory. I think 21.000.000 is a personal number.
In 2009 there were roughly 21.000.000 Romanians in our country. I believe the real motivation was the liberation of his/their people from the money slavery.
We can all agree that this idea stands against the entire power structure of the monetary system. Which means he/they made a lot of powerful enemies.
This enemies realized this was a real problem for them when Bitcoin got to $1000. But waited patiently until the market got low enough, then they pinned him/them here for the strike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fire
But the result was the opposite of their expectations, the price of Bitcoin spiked to almost double in a few days. Check the CoinMarketCap for around 30 oct 2015.
Now I'm afraid we will have an attack on the entire country after the current big spike, especially since Facebook positioned itself against Bitcoin. Probably Google will too
But this is just a theory
It worth being investigated though.
Are you from another world or something?In 2009 there were roughly 21.000.000 Romanians in our country. I believe the real motivation was the liberation of his/their people from the money slavery.
We can all agree that this idea stands against the entire power structure of the monetary system. Which means he/they made a lot of powerful enemies.
This enemies realized this was a real problem for them when Bitcoin got to $1000. But waited patiently until the market got low enough, then they pinned him/them here for the strike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fire
But the result was the opposite of their expectations, the price of Bitcoin spiked to almost double in a few days. Check the CoinMarketCap for around 30 oct 2015.
Now I'm afraid we will have an attack on the entire country after the current big spike, especially since Facebook positioned itself against Bitcoin. Probably Google will too
But this is just a theory
It worth being investigated though.
Your theory was based entirely from nonsense and FUD.
You can write a story with your imagination.
This thread already discussed most of the factors for the 21m supply, but not in relation with the 8 decimal per unit. That would be supplemental.
Clearly I am from another world, but Bitcoin is too. Why would you invent something like this if you would be happy with your current monetary system.
And you're right. My theory is based entirely from nonsense and FUD. But that is all I see around me.
Every Romanian I know personally is not talking about Bitcoin entirely because of pure FEAR.
All the banks are closing Bitcoin related accounts.
Facebook says that ICO and Cryptocurrency are Prohibited Financial Product and they are isolating my page only because I had an idea of a Cryptocurrency.
I am seriously afraid for my life at the moment, but I'm sure that will pass
Our government and parliament are passing totally immoral laws like it's nothing. And one person that we all know he should be behind bars is coordinating everything, Liviu Dragnea.
In this country there are probably the most stupid people in the world. But nature is balancing this so here are also a lot of smart people.
Clearly, because they are smart, they are leaving this country full of stupid people.
It is so far stretched to say that a few of them realized that the current system is the one that is dumbing us down, and we decided to fight back?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te5kBUKN0iM
Do you believe that in this era we still need to have words censored on TV? I don't. But PULA is a word that we use all the time in our day to day basis, like fuck. You don't see fuck censored, PULA is still censored everywhere here. But there's a deeper meaning about this, PULA can also be acronym for Payment Unit for Labor Absolution and that would interfere with the monetary structure. If you make that a coin and you control it, you can control the world. So that shouldn't be. But if you create a decentralized system, when everybody can create their own coin, that's better. You really need to be a genius to understand exactly how to play this out without getting yourself killed. And you need a much higher purpose than just getting rich.
My book will be called "The PULA conspiracy"
You gave me a great idea. I will start writing it.
thats a big news thing but I don't know if other people here knows that bitcoin have no limit in value the value of bitcoin decide to investors and users I think if bitcoin have more people supporting crypto bitcoin will be grow and grow
I think Satoshi picked up this numbers because he was being safe on the future value of bitcoin. He must be expecting that bitcoin would go this far and what he chose was just in the middle of extreme possibilities. Even though we do not know if this reason is valid, still the numbers which Satoshi has chosen matches the current values of Bitcoin
I have another theory. I think 21.000.000 is a personal number.
In 2009 there were roughly 21.000.000 Romanians in our country. I believe the real motivation was the liberation of his/their people from the money slavery.
We can all agree that this idea stands against the entire power structure of the monetary system. Which means he/they made a lot of powerful enemies.
This enemies realized this was a real problem for them when Bitcoin got to $1000. But waited patiently until the market got low enough, then they pinned him/them here for the strike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fire
But the result was the opposite of their expectations, the price of Bitcoin spiked to almost double in a few days. Check the CoinMarketCap for around 30 oct 2015.
Now I'm afraid we will have an attack on the entire country after the current big spike, especially since Facebook positioned itself against Bitcoin. Probably Google will too
But this is just a theory
It worth being investigated though.
In 2009 there were roughly 21.000.000 Romanians in our country. I believe the real motivation was the liberation of his/their people from the money slavery.
We can all agree that this idea stands against the entire power structure of the monetary system. Which means he/they made a lot of powerful enemies.
This enemies realized this was a real problem for them when Bitcoin got to $1000. But waited patiently until the market got low enough, then they pinned him/them here for the strike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fire
But the result was the opposite of their expectations, the price of Bitcoin spiked to almost double in a few days. Check the CoinMarketCap for around 30 oct 2015.
Now I'm afraid we will have an attack on the entire country after the current big spike, especially since Facebook positioned itself against Bitcoin. Probably Google will too
But this is just a theory
It worth being investigated though.
There was actually a reason behind it that had to do with how bytes are divided or something like that, or maybe with the gold supply... I remember reading some theory about it, so it was not fully arbitrary, there was some thought put into it.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's detailed here - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
Truth to be told I don't know about blockchain.
TLDR: I just thought 21 million supply is just a hunch, I think Satoshi knows that he/she/they will/would not live in the year of 21st century that is why it was calculated 21 million instead of 1 million supply or it is just my intuition.
Limiting Bitcoin to 21,000,000 is an effort to prevent inflation. Bitcoin value was tried to be kept high on this count. Everyone is wondering what the Bitcoin price will be when this limit is completed.
i don't know what about supply,tomorrow i will ask satoshi for this one then inform you 
It is difficult to ponder why 21 million was chosen. Like mentioned above it might involve variables and elliptic curve arithmetic or a much simpler mathemathical explanation (not exactly accurate) like this one:
Calculate the number of blocks per 4 year cycle:
6 blocks per hour
* 24 hours per day
* 365 days per year
* 4 years per cycle
= 210,240
~= 210,000
Sum all the block reward sizes:
50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + 3.125 + ... = 100
Multiply the two:
210,000 * 100 = 21 million.
Or as mentioned in one of the mails (not sure if they are legit) between Mike Hearn and Satoshi Nakamoto, it was just an educated guess, picking something that was neither too small nor too large, in the middle.
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8439/why-was-21-million-picked-as-the-number-of-bitcoins-to-be-created
https://pastebin.com/Na5FwkQ4
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-satoshi-emails-2080206
Calculate the number of blocks per 4 year cycle:
6 blocks per hour
* 24 hours per day
* 365 days per year
* 4 years per cycle
= 210,240
~= 210,000
Sum all the block reward sizes:
50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + 3.125 + ... = 100
Multiply the two:
210,000 * 100 = 21 million.
Or as mentioned in one of the mails (not sure if they are legit) between Mike Hearn and Satoshi Nakamoto, it was just an educated guess, picking something that was neither too small nor too large, in the middle.
Quote
My choice for the number of coins and distribution schedule was an educated guess. It was a difficult choice, because once the network is going it's locked in and we're stuck with it. I wanted to pick something that would make prices similar to existing currencies, but without knowing the future, that's very hard. I ended up picking something in the middle. If Bitcoin remains a small niche, it'll be worth less per unit than existing currencies. If you imagine it being used for some fraction of world commerce, then there's only going to be 21 million coins for the whole world, so it would be worth much more per unit. Values are 64-bit integers with 8 decimal places, so 1 coin is represented internally as 100000000. There's plenty of granularity if typical prices become small.
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8439/why-was-21-million-picked-as-the-number-of-bitcoins-to-be-created
https://pastebin.com/Na5FwkQ4
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-satoshi-emails-2080206
I've read many of Satoshi's previous posts and writings, it's mind blowing how Satoshi was expecting bitcoin to come this far and he was prepared for it. Even in one of his posts he says he placed 8 decimals for upcoming decades... I've looked but couldn't find any info about what made him choose 21,000,000 as number of supply? Is there any logic/reason behind choosing that number? would love to know!
I firmly believe that the amount of 21,000.00 is made so that bitcoin has a limit.because if bitcoin is not limited then bitcoin prices will not be as expensive as this and this is very reasonable if bitcoin is made to facilitate us in transacting and investing
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Code:
"The 21 Million BTC limit
One somewhat controversial property of Bitcoin is its fixed currency supply. There are currently 25 BTC being generated every 10 minutes, and this amount cuts in half every four years. All in all, there will never be more than 21 million BTC in existence. On the other hand, each bitcoin can be split into 100 million pieces (called "satoshis"), so it will not become difficult to use Bitcoin if its value goes up the same way it would become problematic to trade with dollars if each penny was enough to buy a car. Thus, all in all, the total number of currency units that will ever exist stands at 2,100,000,000,000,000: 2.1 quadrillion, or about 250.899. In choosing this figure, Satoshi was much luckier, or wiser, than most people realize. First of all, the number is considerably less than 264 - 1, the largest integer that can be stored in a standard integer on a computer - go above that, and the integers wrap around to zero like an odometer.
Second, however, there is another, lower threshold that the total satoshi count manages to fall just below: the largest possible integer that can be exactly represented in floating point format. Integers are not the only kind of number that computers can store; to handle decimal numbers, computers use a format known as floating point representation. Floating point representation is essentially a binary version of scientific notation. For example, here are some values that you may be familiar with if you studied any physics:
Mass of the Earth: 5.972 * 1024 kg
Mass of the Sun: 1.989 * 1030 kg
Speed of light: 2.998 * 108 m/s
One lightyear: 9.460 * 1015 m
Mass of a proton: 1.672 * 10-27 kg
Planck length: 1.616 * 10-35 m
Notice how scientific notation allows you to express all of these values with reasonable accuracy despite their wildly varying scales. Floating point notation is essentially scientific notation in binary; when you store the number 9.625, your computer stores "1.001101 * 1011" (or rather, it stores 01000000 00100011 01000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000, which is the same thing in high-precision serialized form). In this high-precision form, the "significand" (the part that's not the exponent) has 52 bits. What this means is that high-precision (more precisely, "double precision") floating point numbers are good enough to exactly store integers up to 253, but not higher - if you go higher, you start lopping off digits at the end. Bitcoin's 250.9 satoshis are, in exponential terms, just below this maximum. "
One somewhat controversial property of Bitcoin is its fixed currency supply. There are currently 25 BTC being generated every 10 minutes, and this amount cuts in half every four years. All in all, there will never be more than 21 million BTC in existence. On the other hand, each bitcoin can be split into 100 million pieces (called "satoshis"), so it will not become difficult to use Bitcoin if its value goes up the same way it would become problematic to trade with dollars if each penny was enough to buy a car. Thus, all in all, the total number of currency units that will ever exist stands at 2,100,000,000,000,000: 2.1 quadrillion, or about 250.899. In choosing this figure, Satoshi was much luckier, or wiser, than most people realize. First of all, the number is considerably less than 264 - 1, the largest integer that can be stored in a standard integer on a computer - go above that, and the integers wrap around to zero like an odometer.
Second, however, there is another, lower threshold that the total satoshi count manages to fall just below: the largest possible integer that can be exactly represented in floating point format. Integers are not the only kind of number that computers can store; to handle decimal numbers, computers use a format known as floating point representation. Floating point representation is essentially a binary version of scientific notation. For example, here are some values that you may be familiar with if you studied any physics:
Mass of the Earth: 5.972 * 1024 kg
Mass of the Sun: 1.989 * 1030 kg
Speed of light: 2.998 * 108 m/s
One lightyear: 9.460 * 1015 m
Mass of a proton: 1.672 * 10-27 kg
Planck length: 1.616 * 10-35 m
Notice how scientific notation allows you to express all of these values with reasonable accuracy despite their wildly varying scales. Floating point notation is essentially scientific notation in binary; when you store the number 9.625, your computer stores "1.001101 * 1011" (or rather, it stores 01000000 00100011 01000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000, which is the same thing in high-precision serialized form). In this high-precision form, the "significand" (the part that's not the exponent) has 52 bits. What this means is that high-precision (more precisely, "double precision") floating point numbers are good enough to exactly store integers up to 253, but not higher - if you go higher, you start lopping off digits at the end. Bitcoin's 250.9 satoshis are, in exponential terms, just below this maximum. "
It is really interesting. 21m is a lot, but its small enough to allow bitcoin to reach $10k's+ which is very eye catching for a lot of people. So I am sure that played some sort of role.
I've read many of Satoshi's previous posts and writings, it's mind blowing how Satoshi was expecting bitcoin to come this far and he was prepared for it. Even in one of his posts he says he placed 8 decimals for upcoming decades... I've looked but couldn't find any info about what made him choose 21,000,000 as number of supply? Is there any logic/reason behind choosing that number? would love to know!
It seems to be just an arbitrary choice. He could have set any limit. I don't remember it being mentioned by anyone that he posted any reasons for it. It's just what he decided on, for reasons only he knows. Personally I would have like it to be 42M.
I would not have any problem had it been set to have the maximum of 100 Million Bitcoin...that would have been much better though of course we don't really know as to why Satoshi Nakamoto decided to fixed the supply at 21 Million. I am sure he can provide an explanation for this but since it would be impossible for us to contact the gifted guy then we will just leave it at that...am sure we can read some speculations on why this is so but all of those are just speculations and can not be verified. Right now, we can see that this limited supply against the increasing demand is one of the biggest factors why the price or value of Bitcoin surging by leaps and bounds.
There was actually a reason behind it that had to do with how bytes are divided or something like that, or maybe with the gold supply... I remember reading some theory about it, so it was not fully arbitrary, there was some thought put into it.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's detailed here - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
There was actually a reason behind it that had to do with how bytes are divided or something like that, or maybe with the gold supply... I remember reading some theory about it, so it was not fully arbitrary, there was some thought put into it.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's detailed here - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
Thanks for sharing! I Will definitely check that out. Indeed, it's really hard to believe all this was done by a person..
It's detailed here - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
Excellent info. Thanks for posting that.
I still think David Kleiman who passed away in 2013, was Satoshi:
https://gizmodo.com/the-strange-life-and-death-of-dave-kleiman-a-computer-1747092460
I always thought that bitcoin's supply would be a number that was an exponent of 2 or devised to fit inside standardized variables, or some other unit of measure. It makes sense from an IT engineering perspective. I never knew that addresses were a hash of a public key though, rather than the public key itself. The part about elliptic curves is also very interesting although way over my head.
I´m going with this:
1 X 3 X 7 = 21
There was actually a reason behind it that had to do with how bytes are divided or something like that, or maybe with the gold supply... I remember reading some theory about it, so it was not fully arbitrary, there was some thought put into it.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's detailed here - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
So from what I can tell there's no particular reason that it's exactly 21m but there is a reason it's under a certain amount and that is with regard to how computers can process integers, interesting, still think there must be something behind 21, based on what I read it could have been 22m or any number close to it.
There was actually a reason behind it that had to do with how bytes are divided or something like that, or maybe with the gold supply... I remember reading some theory about it, so it was not fully arbitrary, there was some thought put into it.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's similar to the 1MB blocksize, it is what it is, but there is also thought put behind the number. Satoshi didn't simply roll a dice and choose these numbers.
It's detailed here - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet-1382996984/
Quite stunning how much thought went into every possible aspect. That's why I think it was a group that did. A bunch of heads finds many more potential holes than one.
I think that his purpose was to create scarcity. When bitcoin mining became unsustainable, the value is going to raise like never before, and the coin itself will be seen has a good, not a exchange object, like normal coins.
When that time arrives, other coin(s) will take the role of bitcoin as the reference coin.
Like what happens now, bitcoin price unceasingly moves upward because the supply of bitcoin is much lower than other altcoins. When the demand goes high the supply goes down. When that happens price of bitcoin continuously goes up. Logically speaking, bitcoin calculated the amount of bitcoin that will circulate in the global economy. If the number of bitcoin is 21 million above do you think it will have value for now? Yes, it has but for sure it is not the same as today. If the number of bitcoin is less than 21 million, for sure that will lead to scarcity. When that time arrives, other coin(s) will take the role of bitcoin as the reference coin.
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