Why all miners need to mine on a pool that pays them the tx fees.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: danieleither on April 27, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

this is not up to date. blocks with huge fees occurred for a long time. it is not happening anymore.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thanks! Also, would it be worthwhile to investigate ZEC pools as well given that ZEC's algo is built on the same algo (with additions, of course). Could there be similar discrepancies between pools that pay tx fees and those that do not there or is this a problem specific to BTC pools?

Quote from: danieleither on April 27, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

The conditions are changed. oversized manipulated tx fees are not happening at this time.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: ?? on ??

I tagged him. at the least it is spam. at the worst it is a bad link

As did I. “Boy bye scammer”. Heheheh. Also to Tracy repeating it won’t get you any more leads lol

Br

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

I have unlocked this as we are now experiencing high fees again.

Last 2 weeks 1 btc per block has been common.

Is this means you need to go for pools giving you at least some of that 1 btc.

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer?utm_campaign=dcomnav_explorer

some blocks below made this sunday the 2nd of august.

641927 0.537 in btc
641926 0.442
641925 0.728
641924 1.593
641923 0.617
641922 0.494
641921 0.297
641920 1.265

as you can see some fees are well over 1 btc smallest was .297 btc.

VIABTC.com is a pps+ pool they pay part of the fees

they are at 111% payout average right now due to high fees

https://www.viabtc.com/pool/state

solo.ckpool pays almost all the tc fees to you
mmpool.org will give the block winner the entire tx a huge bonus.
kano.is gives out the fees to the miners.

whenever we get to tx fees at 10% + look for pools giving this out to you.

as to how long these .5btc to 2.0 btc tx fees will last this time i don't know but pick pools that will share it to you.

I was asked if this applies to other coins.
It does but in each case you need to see how high that coin is charging for fees.

BTC = 112.06% at viabtc
LTC =. 96.16% at viabtc

viabtc starts at 96% many pps+ pools start at that point.

You can see just how high the btc fees are compared to ltc.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

This is not happening any more.
It has become out of date.

Oversized tx fees are not happening as they were when this was written.

Quote from: danieleither on April 27, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

The conditions are changed. oversized manipulated tx fees are not happening at this time.

danieleither

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Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

potificate

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I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

@ kano my personal solution is two fold

1) mine at a full fee payment pool with some hash and mine at a 50% fee payment pool with the rest.

Not perfect only okay

28 th on a partial pool

17 th on a full pay tx pool

So I get about 75% of fees paid back .

2) mine gpus and alt coins

I have about 20k worth of s-9s
I have about 50k worth of 1080tis

I try using ltc to move funds around as it cost less.

I figure a simple move to 8 million size for transactions ends the fee problem for a few years.
I know 32 million is max we can go to.

Which should cover issue for a decade.
My hope is a strong attempt to boost fees using the method about does not happen.

1000 sats for a 227 size tx is 0.00227000 btc about 30 usd this could be the new norm for moving coins.

rifleman74

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4 s9's 2 821's

Quote from: kano on January 08, 2018, 06:14:20 PM

There's also a 2nd very obvious possibility about what's going on:

Since fees are so high that you can only really spend thousands of dollars with BTC to get lower fees than using a credit card or paypal, that means that people will want a way to make small BTC transactions (hundreds of dollars or less)

If Core keeps the block size at 1M and SegWit isn't a block size solution (as was obvious before it was implemented) then anyone who wants people to use off chain transactions will be happy with the current BTC problem (that of course still hasn't been solved by SegWit)

That would mean payment channels and side chains ... hmm I wonder who wants to make people use that ...

Roger Roger Roger Roger

kano

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There's also a 2nd very obvious possibility about what's going on:

Since fees are so high that you can only really spend thousands of dollars with BTC to get lower fees than using a credit card or paypal, that means that people will want a way to make small BTC transactions (hundreds of dollars or less)

If Core keeps the block size at 1M and SegWit isn't a block size solution (as was obvious before it was implemented) then anyone who wants people to use off chain transactions will be happy with the current BTC problem (that of course still hasn't been solved by SegWit)

That would mean payment channels and side chains ... hmm I wonder who wants to make people use that ...

JaredKaragen

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My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?

TBH I caught yobit skimming during the full-block days.

See; When the blocks were full several months ago, They released a a statement that they would be increasing their withdraw fee to make for faster transaction times. Totally fine with that. They even announced it in their twitter.

Next, TX fees were lowering; the network was less congested ~.5-1 month after the BTC/BCC fork. (or was it the BTC/BTG fork??)

I noticed when I did a withdraw from yobit; the fees for withdraw were still over 0.0025mbtc. When I checked the Tx for my incoming payment from them; I noticed total TX fees were 0.0009xx. Totally not what they said. There were only 2 transfers in that single txid; and I think one of the two was providing the change back to one of their wallets.

I opened a support ticket; they said the tx fees were clearly mentioned before and there was "no problem here".

I referenced this tweet in my support ticket: https://twitter.com/yobitexchange/status/872855875299442689?lang=en
also quoting the txid that a WAY different number has been used to "speed up confirmation" which was lightyears less than what they took out to do the withdraw (they took over 0.0025)
Here's the Tx from them: https://blockchain.info/tx/76de2aa961a5a2edfcf9c81179b025ecac6195b443315b53458808294c289573

So... they ended up silently changing their withdraw fee. My response proving their support ticket lie; is still un-answered.... which is.....

See; Everyone is always tempted to steal or take a cut wherever they can.

The US government is a prime example of this standard disheartening activity.

I really highly suggest that people blow this up.... I mean, as far out as possible. If we can stomp down the fatties; they will feel the pains of their dishonest behavior.

Not telling the truth is dishonest.
Withholding vital pertinent information is dishonest.

We should do what we can to squeeze out as much of this in our community as possible.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

So I pay 0.0001 for a 1335 byte transaction

while the average pay 0.0052 btc to 0.0117 for a 1335 transaction

under 8 sats a byte vs 400 sats a byte

the transactions above were 1 per day small scale I found them because I was one of the payee's on each one.

By itself that is not so bad for the payee to do this with a side deal from a pool.

If the pool returns the vast majority of the tx fees to the miners.

but lets say antpool and btc.com

return ½ the tx fees not 100%

they mine 40% of all coins between them so ½ fee payback = 20% of all fees they keep.

so the transactions I show

0.0001 for 1335 bytes makes about fortyfour 227 sized tx later or 10000 bytes later on

and at .004 for 1000 it is 0.04 in fees later and as high as 0.09 in fees on one of the higher days.

at best antpool+btc.com keeps 20% of all network fees each day so 20% of 0.04 = 0.008

so for each 0.0001 spent they get 0.0080 an 80 fold increase for them

worse case was 0.09 x say 25% = 0.0225 for spending 0.0001 or a 225 to 1 increase.

this is not good as it can make it next to impossible to move coins

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Here is my issue with the transactions above.

read the post above the fees here for a 1335 byte transaction that creates 30 to 50 227 byte sized transaction
most of those 1335 byte transaction were white listed at 0.0001 btc

yet a normal 1000 byte transaction cost 0.004 to 0.009 if you

Study these charts below

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

kano

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Quote from: TheYankeesWin! on December 26, 2017, 09:50:39 AM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mining-pool-payout-transparency-2649096

Thanks to d57heinz

Here is a chart From this link. Last 30 days of mining.

https://poolprofit.io/en/

It shows the top 12 pools

...

Doesn't list any small pools - or the best paying one - so it's pointless Tongue

TheYankeesWin!

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https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mining-pool-payout-transparency-2649096

Thanks to d57heinz

Here is a chart From this link. Last 30 days of mining.

https://poolprofit.io/en/

It shows the top 12 pools

SlushPool pays rewards method B------------------14.61144 coins
GBMiners pays Partial rewards method C----------14.51882 coins

ViaBTC pays reward method B PPLNS ------------14.41793 coins
ViaBTC pays partial rewards Method C PPS+ -----------14.16793 coins

on the darker side

Antpool PPS+ pays Partial reward method C ----------------- 14.369 grabbing 0.541 coins a block
Antpool PPS pays Partial reward method C -----------------13.125 grabbing 1.79 coins a block
Antpool PPLNS pays Score reward method A ------------------ 12.50 grabbing 2.41 coins a block
Antpool Solo pays Score reward Method A --------------------- 12.375 grabbing 2.54 coins a block

Why on earth would anyone in the world mine antpool solo instead of ck pool solo?

last I looked ck would take under .3 btc on a solo hit while antpool takes 2.54 btc.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: MaxiMan on December 25, 2017, 07:06:55 PM

Interesting... but this applies to just Bitcoin mining ?
How about the multi algo pools?
Zpool, Nicehash, Prohashing?

That is a really hard question to answer.

But I see only BTC in trouble as the math is dead solid correct that BTC can have fee rate jacked up with ease.

Do I mine at Zpool yes not BTC
Do I mine at NiceHash yes not BTC
Do I mine at Miningpoolhub yes not BTC

At the moment BTC has an easy way to manipulate fees by the top Six pools

the math is there.

You can argue that mining with

https://pool.viabtc.com/pool/btc/profit/ALL/

that they pay back some of the fees. all of the coins above 100% is some of the fees.

So to make sure I am not feeding the fee monster and not getting killed by variance.

I mine 2 s-9s on viabtc.--------- no variance
I mine 2 s-9s on mmpool. ------ high variance

If alot of miners did this problem goes away
and you will not get crushe with high fees or high variance.

so ½ on viabtc pps ---------- no variance
½ on kano-------------------- high variance

or ½ on viabtc pps ---------- no variance
½ on mmpool---------------- high variance

or
½ on viabtc pps --------------no variance
½ on ck's pool ----------------high variance

any pattern like the one above

would be helpful

Date   Hashrate   Total Profit   Unit Output(TH/s)   PPS Profit   PPLNS Profit   SOLO Profit   PPS+ Rate
2017-12-26   22.844T   0.00166932   0.00015943   0.00135316   0.00031616   0   118.43%
2017-12-25   22.541T   0.00377373   0.00016741   0.00290061   0.00087312   0   124.9%
2017-12-24   22.719T   0.00425017   0.00018707   0.0029248   0.00132537   0   139.5%
2017-12-23   22.555T   0.00494303   0.00021915   0.0029121   0.00203093   0   162.95%
2017-12-22   22.510T   0.00536606   0.00023838   0.00289729   0.00246877   0   177.8%
2017-12-21   22.788T   0.00492021   0.00021591   0.00294698   0.00197323   0   160.28%
2017-12-20   22.867T   0.00415326   0.00018162   0.00294023   0.00121303   0   135.61%
2017-12-19   22.492T   0.00376132   0.00016723   0.00289554   0.00086578   0   124.7%
2017-12-18   22.656T   0.00438107   0.00019337   0.00341745   0.00096362   0   123.07%
2017-12-17   24.742T   0.0046689   0.00018870 0.00377236   0.00089654   0   118.81%
2017-12-16   27.328T   0.00523549   0.00019158   0.00415086   0.00108463   0   121.08%
2017-12-15   27.102T   0.00501499   0.00018504   0.00412332   0.00089167   0   116.76%
2017-12-14   27.754T   0.00533809   0.00019233   0.00420781   0.00113028   0   121.78%
2017-12-13   27.653T   0.00518566   0.00018752   0.00419169   0.00099397   0   118.76%

As you see above they do pay some back extra.

The math for excluding this style of mining on their pool is not as compelling.

I run 2 s-9's there see above
I run my other 2 s-9's here

http://mmpool.org/statistics
Estimated Payout

Rank...Id........DGM Estimate......PPS.....................   Shares.............   Rate (MHash/s)
1   a5d78fff   9.74241459   0.00000000   130,161,014,576_____   0

2   71602a00   0.43753559   0.00000000   20,405,489,465______   23,917,084

3   2d0ba29d   0.21326891   0.00000000   12,671,491,314______   5,583,990
4   c932f3ed   0.23847335   0.00000000   11,985,725,219______   0
5   5e935067   0.05308415   0.00000000   3,806,752,856_______   13,209,683
6   433aa491   0.07248369   0.00000000   3,183,604,233_______   1,072,527
7   0f7b9499   0.03441520   0.00000000   2,603,052,116_______   0
8   d7ec4cdf   0.02936538   0.00000000   2,460,009,494_______   5,852,435
9   8dae603b   0.02509840   0.00000000   1,746,057,383_______   0
10   6bee0a6a   0.03466155   0.00000000   1,735,497,157_______   1,058,581
11   5f5049cc   0.01200661   0.00000000   1,043,206,076_______   0
12   7a6d3ba4   0.01335813   0.00000000   957,114,215_________   1,104,451
13   8b36feaa   0.01720647   0.00000000   919,463,117_________   442,747
14   8f21a6e7   0.00845201   0.00000000   804,922,346_________   12,844,869
15   922fcd5c   0.01101717   0.00000000   656,867,328_________   0

So ½ my hash rate of s-9's is on a pool that full pays tx fees to the miners -------MMPOOL.org
and to prevent crazy bad variance ½ my hashrate is on a pool that pays some of its tx fees to the miners---- viabtc.org

NotFuzzyWarm

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

Quote from: MaxiMan on December 25, 2017, 07:06:55 PM

Interesting... but this applies to just Bitcoin mining ?
How about the multi algo pools?
Zpool, Nicehash, Prohashing?

good point but - this is the BITCOIN area so not the place to discuss that.
If there isn't one already, start a thread about it in the altcoin discussion area.

MaxiMan

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Interesting... but this applies to just Bitcoin mining ?
How about the multi algo pools?
Zpool, Nicehash, Prohashing?

digaran

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🖤😏

Thank you frodocooper for the sticky, this is really important, theymos must put a link in the news header for every body to see, there is nothing stopping them now, if they are not sharing the fees with miners, it means that they are using your hash rate to manipulate the fees without paying you any thing from it, if every body just leaves them and starts mining on the pools sharing block reward and the fees, I'd tell you how the fees will go back to normal because these greedy pools would run out of money. think about the long term, don't help them to keep the fees high, in long term people would switch to other coins and when they do that, bringing them back would be extremely hard.

Topic: Why all miners need to mine on a pool that pays them the tx fees. (Read 31371 times)