Why all miners need to mine on a pool that pays them the tx fees.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: danieleither on April 27, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

this is not up to date. blocks with huge fees occurred for a long time. it is not happening anymore.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thanks! Also, would it be worthwhile to investigate ZEC pools as well given that ZEC's algo is built on the same algo (with additions, of course). Could there be similar discrepancies between pools that pay tx fees and those that do not there or is this a problem specific to BTC pools?

Quote from: danieleither on April 27, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

The conditions are changed. oversized manipulated tx fees are not happening at this time.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: ?? on ??

I tagged him. at the least it is spam. at the worst it is a bad link

As did I. “Boy bye scammer”. Heheheh. Also to Tracy repeating it won’t get you any more leads lol

Br

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

I have unlocked this as we are now experiencing high fees again.

Last 2 weeks 1 btc per block has been common.

Is this means you need to go for pools giving you at least some of that 1 btc.

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer?utm_campaign=dcomnav_explorer

some blocks below made this sunday the 2nd of august.

641927 0.537 in btc
641926 0.442
641925 0.728
641924 1.593
641923 0.617
641922 0.494
641921 0.297
641920 1.265

as you can see some fees are well over 1 btc smallest was .297 btc.

VIABTC.com is a pps+ pool they pay part of the fees

they are at 111% payout average right now due to high fees

https://www.viabtc.com/pool/state

solo.ckpool pays almost all the tc fees to you
mmpool.org will give the block winner the entire tx a huge bonus.
kano.is gives out the fees to the miners.

whenever we get to tx fees at 10% + look for pools giving this out to you.

as to how long these .5btc to 2.0 btc tx fees will last this time i don't know but pick pools that will share it to you.

I was asked if this applies to other coins.
It does but in each case you need to see how high that coin is charging for fees.

BTC = 112.06% at viabtc
LTC =. 96.16% at viabtc

viabtc starts at 96% many pps+ pools start at that point.

You can see just how high the btc fees are compared to ltc.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

This is not happening any more.
It has become out of date.

Oversized tx fees are not happening as they were when this was written.

Quote from: danieleither on April 27, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

The conditions are changed. oversized manipulated tx fees are not happening at this time.

danieleither

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Quote from: potificate on March 11, 2020, 04:24:19 AM

I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

I have just seen this - it's a shame that nobody has replied. I'm also new to mining and just wondered which pool you picked and why?

Further, if anyone else is able to offer some advice that would be great

Regards,

Danny

potificate

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I'm new to BTC mining.... is there an updated list of the full paying pools?

Many thanks for your research!

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

@ kano my personal solution is two fold

1) mine at a full fee payment pool with some hash and mine at a 50% fee payment pool with the rest.

Not perfect only okay

28 th on a partial pool

17 th on a full pay tx pool

So I get about 75% of fees paid back .

2) mine gpus and alt coins

I have about 20k worth of s-9s
I have about 50k worth of 1080tis

I try using ltc to move funds around as it cost less.

I figure a simple move to 8 million size for transactions ends the fee problem for a few years.
I know 32 million is max we can go to.

Which should cover issue for a decade.
My hope is a strong attempt to boost fees using the method about does not happen.

1000 sats for a 227 size tx is 0.00227000 btc about 30 usd this could be the new norm for moving coins.

rifleman74

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4 s9's 2 821's

Quote from: kano on January 08, 2018, 06:14:20 PM

There's also a 2nd very obvious possibility about what's going on:

Since fees are so high that you can only really spend thousands of dollars with BTC to get lower fees than using a credit card or paypal, that means that people will want a way to make small BTC transactions (hundreds of dollars or less)

If Core keeps the block size at 1M and SegWit isn't a block size solution (as was obvious before it was implemented) then anyone who wants people to use off chain transactions will be happy with the current BTC problem (that of course still hasn't been solved by SegWit)

That would mean payment channels and side chains ... hmm I wonder who wants to make people use that ...

Roger Roger Roger Roger

kano

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There's also a 2nd very obvious possibility about what's going on:

Since fees are so high that you can only really spend thousands of dollars with BTC to get lower fees than using a credit card or paypal, that means that people will want a way to make small BTC transactions (hundreds of dollars or less)

If Core keeps the block size at 1M and SegWit isn't a block size solution (as was obvious before it was implemented) then anyone who wants people to use off chain transactions will be happy with the current BTC problem (that of course still hasn't been solved by SegWit)

That would mean payment channels and side chains ... hmm I wonder who wants to make people use that ...

JaredKaragen

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My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?

TBH I caught yobit skimming during the full-block days.

See; When the blocks were full several months ago, They released a a statement that they would be increasing their withdraw fee to make for faster transaction times. Totally fine with that. They even announced it in their twitter.

Next, TX fees were lowering; the network was less congested ~.5-1 month after the BTC/BCC fork. (or was it the BTC/BTG fork??)

I noticed when I did a withdraw from yobit; the fees for withdraw were still over 0.0025mbtc. When I checked the Tx for my incoming payment from them; I noticed total TX fees were 0.0009xx. Totally not what they said. There were only 2 transfers in that single txid; and I think one of the two was providing the change back to one of their wallets.

I opened a support ticket; they said the tx fees were clearly mentioned before and there was "no problem here".

I referenced this tweet in my support ticket: https://twitter.com/yobitexchange/status/872855875299442689?lang=en
also quoting the txid that a WAY different number has been used to "speed up confirmation" which was lightyears less than what they took out to do the withdraw (they took over 0.0025)
Here's the Tx from them: https://blockchain.info/tx/76de2aa961a5a2edfcf9c81179b025ecac6195b443315b53458808294c289573

So... they ended up silently changing their withdraw fee. My response proving their support ticket lie; is still un-answered.... which is.....

See; Everyone is always tempted to steal or take a cut wherever they can.

The US government is a prime example of this standard disheartening activity.

I really highly suggest that people blow this up.... I mean, as far out as possible. If we can stomp down the fatties; they will feel the pains of their dishonest behavior.

Not telling the truth is dishonest.
Withholding vital pertinent information is dishonest.

We should do what we can to squeeze out as much of this in our community as possible.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

So I pay 0.0001 for a 1335 byte transaction

while the average pay 0.0052 btc to 0.0117 for a 1335 transaction

under 8 sats a byte vs 400 sats a byte

the transactions above were 1 per day small scale I found them because I was one of the payee's on each one.

By itself that is not so bad for the payee to do this with a side deal from a pool.

If the pool returns the vast majority of the tx fees to the miners.

but lets say antpool and btc.com

return ½ the tx fees not 100%

they mine 40% of all coins between them so ½ fee payback = 20% of all fees they keep.

so the transactions I show

0.0001 for 1335 bytes makes about fortyfour 227 sized tx later or 10000 bytes later on

and at .004 for 1000 it is 0.04 in fees later and as high as 0.09 in fees on one of the higher days.

at best antpool+btc.com keeps 20% of all network fees each day so 20% of 0.04 = 0.008

so for each 0.0001 spent they get 0.0080 an 80 fold increase for them

worse case was 0.09 x say 25% = 0.0225 for spending 0.0001 or a 225 to 1 increase.

this is not good as it can make it next to impossible to move coins

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Here is my issue with the transactions above.

read the post above the fees here for a 1335 byte transaction that creates 30 to 50 227 byte sized transaction
most of those 1335 byte transaction were white listed at 0.0001 btc

yet a normal 1000 byte transaction cost 0.004 to 0.009 if you

Study these charts below

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

kano

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Quote from: TheYankeesWin! on December 26, 2017, 09:50:39 AM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mining-pool-payout-transparency-2649096

Thanks to d57heinz

Here is a chart From this link. Last 30 days of mining.

https://poolprofit.io/en/

It shows the top 12 pools

...

Doesn't list any small pools - or the best paying one - so it's pointless Tongue

TheYankeesWin!

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https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mining-pool-payout-transparency-2649096

Thanks to d57heinz

Here is a chart From this link. Last 30 days of mining.

https://poolprofit.io/en/

It shows the top 12 pools

SlushPool pays rewards method B------------------14.61144 coins
GBMiners pays Partial rewards method C----------14.51882 coins

ViaBTC pays reward method B PPLNS ------------14.41793 coins
ViaBTC pays partial rewards Method C PPS+ -----------14.16793 coins

on the darker side

Antpool PPS+ pays Partial reward method C ----------------- 14.369 grabbing 0.541 coins a block
Antpool PPS pays Partial reward method C -----------------13.125 grabbing 1.79 coins a block
Antpool PPLNS pays Score reward method A ------------------ 12.50 grabbing 2.41 coins a block
Antpool Solo pays Score reward Method A --------------------- 12.375 grabbing 2.54 coins a block

Why on earth would anyone in the world mine antpool solo instead of ck pool solo?

last I looked ck would take under .3 btc on a solo hit while antpool takes 2.54 btc.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: MaxiMan on December 25, 2017, 07:06:55 PM

Interesting... but this applies to just Bitcoin mining ?
How about the multi algo pools?
Zpool, Nicehash, Prohashing?

That is a really hard question to answer.

But I see only BTC in trouble as the math is dead solid correct that BTC can have fee rate jacked up with ease.

Do I mine at Zpool yes not BTC
Do I mine at NiceHash yes not BTC
Do I mine at Miningpoolhub yes not BTC

At the moment BTC has an easy way to manipulate fees by the top Six pools

the math is there.

You can argue that mining with

https://pool.viabtc.com/pool/btc/profit/ALL/

that they pay back some of the fees. all of the coins above 100% is some of the fees.

So to make sure I am not feeding the fee monster and not getting killed by variance.

I mine 2 s-9s on viabtc.--------- no variance
I mine 2 s-9s on mmpool. ------ high variance

If alot of miners did this problem goes away
and you will not get crushe with high fees or high variance.

so ½ on viabtc pps ---------- no variance
½ on kano-------------------- high variance

or ½ on viabtc pps ---------- no variance
½ on mmpool---------------- high variance

or
½ on viabtc pps --------------no variance
½ on ck's pool ----------------high variance

any pattern like the one above

would be helpful

Date   Hashrate   Total Profit   Unit Output(TH/s)   PPS Profit   PPLNS Profit   SOLO Profit   PPS+ Rate
2017-12-26   22.844T   0.00166932   0.00015943   0.00135316   0.00031616   0   118.43%
2017-12-25   22.541T   0.00377373   0.00016741   0.00290061   0.00087312   0   124.9%
2017-12-24   22.719T   0.00425017   0.00018707   0.0029248   0.00132537   0   139.5%
2017-12-23   22.555T   0.00494303   0.00021915   0.0029121   0.00203093   0   162.95%
2017-12-22   22.510T   0.00536606   0.00023838   0.00289729   0.00246877   0   177.8%
2017-12-21   22.788T   0.00492021   0.00021591   0.00294698   0.00197323   0   160.28%
2017-12-20   22.867T   0.00415326   0.00018162   0.00294023   0.00121303   0   135.61%
2017-12-19   22.492T   0.00376132   0.00016723   0.00289554   0.00086578   0   124.7%
2017-12-18   22.656T   0.00438107   0.00019337   0.00341745   0.00096362   0   123.07%
2017-12-17   24.742T   0.0046689   0.00018870 0.00377236   0.00089654   0   118.81%
2017-12-16   27.328T   0.00523549   0.00019158   0.00415086   0.00108463   0   121.08%
2017-12-15   27.102T   0.00501499   0.00018504   0.00412332   0.00089167   0   116.76%
2017-12-14   27.754T   0.00533809   0.00019233   0.00420781   0.00113028   0   121.78%
2017-12-13   27.653T   0.00518566   0.00018752   0.00419169   0.00099397   0   118.76%

As you see above they do pay some back extra.

The math for excluding this style of mining on their pool is not as compelling.

I run 2 s-9's there see above
I run my other 2 s-9's here

http://mmpool.org/statistics
Estimated Payout

Rank...Id........DGM Estimate......PPS.....................   Shares.............   Rate (MHash/s)
1   a5d78fff   9.74241459   0.00000000   130,161,014,576_____   0

2   71602a00   0.43753559   0.00000000   20,405,489,465______   23,917,084

3   2d0ba29d   0.21326891   0.00000000   12,671,491,314______   5,583,990
4   c932f3ed   0.23847335   0.00000000   11,985,725,219______   0
5   5e935067   0.05308415   0.00000000   3,806,752,856_______   13,209,683
6   433aa491   0.07248369   0.00000000   3,183,604,233_______   1,072,527
7   0f7b9499   0.03441520   0.00000000   2,603,052,116_______   0
8   d7ec4cdf   0.02936538   0.00000000   2,460,009,494_______   5,852,435
9   8dae603b   0.02509840   0.00000000   1,746,057,383_______   0
10   6bee0a6a   0.03466155   0.00000000   1,735,497,157_______   1,058,581
11   5f5049cc   0.01200661   0.00000000   1,043,206,076_______   0
12   7a6d3ba4   0.01335813   0.00000000   957,114,215_________   1,104,451
13   8b36feaa   0.01720647   0.00000000   919,463,117_________   442,747
14   8f21a6e7   0.00845201   0.00000000   804,922,346_________   12,844,869
15   922fcd5c   0.01101717   0.00000000   656,867,328_________   0

So ½ my hash rate of s-9's is on a pool that full pays tx fees to the miners -------MMPOOL.org
and to prevent crazy bad variance ½ my hashrate is on a pool that pays some of its tx fees to the miners---- viabtc.org

NotFuzzyWarm

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Quote from: MaxiMan on December 25, 2017, 07:06:55 PM

Interesting... but this applies to just Bitcoin mining ?
How about the multi algo pools?
Zpool, Nicehash, Prohashing?

good point but - this is the BITCOIN area so not the place to discuss that.
If there isn't one already, start a thread about it in the altcoin discussion area.

MaxiMan

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Interesting... but this applies to just Bitcoin mining ?
How about the multi algo pools?
Zpool, Nicehash, Prohashing?

digaran

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🖤😏

Thank you frodocooper for the sticky, this is really important, theymos must put a link in the news header for every body to see, there is nothing stopping them now, if they are not sharing the fees with miners, it means that they are using your hash rate to manipulate the fees without paying you any thing from it, if every body just leaves them and starts mining on the pools sharing block reward and the fees, I'd tell you how the fees will go back to normal because these greedy pools would run out of money. think about the long term, don't help them to keep the fees high, in long term people would switch to other coins and when they do that, bringing them back would be extremely hard.

frodocooper

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I've stickied this topic to help spread the message.

Quote from: Shazam!!! on December 23, 2017, 09:04:46 PM

If anyone else needs to be added, please let me know and I'll add them.

Do consider adding P2Pool — both mainnet and jtoomim's fork.

Here is a simple step-by-step guide to setting up a PyPy-based jtoomimnet P2Pool node on Ubuntu 16.04 and later.

Edit: The guide assumes that your system is running an up-to-date and fully-synced Bitcoin full node — e.g., Bitcoin Core — with the -server, -rpcuser=, and -rpcpassword= command-line options enabled, and that your firewall allows incoming connections on ports 8333 (Bitcoin's P2P port), 9332 (P2Pool's default worker port), and 9333 (P2Pool's P2P port).

jonnybravo0311

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Mine at Jonny's Pool

Preach on, Brother Phil! I fail to understand why people continue to donate their coins at such an alarmingly high rate. Maybe they're just so used to paying taxes, that losing 30% seems normal...

kano

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Quote from: ukjack on December 24, 2017, 06:43:19 AM

What does it mean when btc tweets things like this? https://twitter.com/btccom_official/status/944844422616944641

180% earnings?
How does this compare with Kano etc?

The problem is that they aren't telling you what % of the block's BTC they are keeping coz it's PPS.
On my pool it's 0.9% of total BTC that comes in - 99.1% of all incoming BTC goes back to miners - way more then them - (though it's 100% at the moment til the end of the year)

On a PPS pool they'd have to actually tell you what they are keeping and giving out over a month to determine what % they are keeping.
It will be higher than 0.9% and extremely likely many times higher.

All PPS pools like to provide ambiguous information about their payouts - yes they all do - so that people don't realise how high the fees really are.

ukjack

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What does it mean when btc tweets things like this? https://twitter.com/btccom_official/status/944844422616944641

180% earnings?
How does this compare with Kano etc?

Shazam!!!

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#takeminingback

The more I think about this, the more it gets me going! I really want to help do something to
help out. So.....I took some time and threw together some code for a Signature to show some
support, and to help spread the word a little. It's nothing flashy, but it gets the message out.

@phlipma, I linked back to this thread for others to read. If not allowed I'll remove it.

@kano,@-ck,@Jonny bravo--I added links out to your pools. If you'd like to not be on there, I'll remove it.

If anyone else needs to be added, please let me know and I'll add them.

If You would like to Help Support Our Mining Community with this Signature, Please paste it in your profile. Thank You!!!

Example:

Corporate Mining Pools are Stealing Your Money and Centralizing BTCitcoin!!!

Learn the Truth about Big Corporate Mining Pools!!! Be Part of The BTCitcoin Community!!!

Mine at Pools That Support BTCitcoin!!! Kano's Pool -ck's Pool Jonny's Pool p2pool

Code:

[center][b]Corporate Mining Pools are [I] Stealing[/I] Your Money and Centralizing [btc]itcoin!!![/b][/center][center][b]Learn the [/b][url=https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-all-miners-need-to-mine-on-a-pool-that-pays-them-the-tx-fees-2634505][b][u][size=15pt]Truth [/size][/u][/b][/url][b] about Big Corporate Mining Pools!!! [/b][b] Be Part of The [btc]itcoin Community!!! [/b][/center] [center][b][u] Mine at Pools That Support [btc]itcoin!!! [/u][/b] [b][u][url=https://kano.is/] Kano's Pool [/url][url=http://ckpool.org/] -ck's Pool [/url] [url=http://www.bravo-mining.com/] Jonny's Pool [/url] [url=http://p2pool.in/] p2pool [/url][/center]

134vc
Updated 01/28/18, 02/26/18, 04/06/18

beltsniffer

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Quote from: philipma1957 on December 22, 2017, 10:52:30 PM

I looked at it more closely since the top six keep fees but via.btc does give back some of them at the monment.

So the top five are a no go zero money sense to mine on them.

Viabtc is more complex. they are paying more then the block but not all the fees to the miners.

but the top five simply can not be used.

I'm not pushing viabtc, but that is only their pps+ that pays partial fees. The pplns pays fees and they actually use a 5nd method like kano.is

The do however charge a 2% fee like slush which is more than double the normal kano.is rate.

CrypotoCreanis

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Quote from: kano on December 22, 2017, 09:27:00 PM

Quote from: Shazam!!! on December 22, 2017, 08:59:48 PM

Very insightful Philipma! I've been doing a lot of research about pools trying to choose one for when I get set up again.
A lot has changed since 2015 that's for sure! I've been seeing a lot of people talk about this in different threads, but
you hit the nail on the head. At what point can we get a miners club going that only includes people with this mindset?
I don't want to use the word "union", but a group of people who stick to a certain set of rules, to take back power from
the big pools. I for one do not like what I see from the big pools, and wish there was something WE could do about it.

Ah - it's simple - mine at a pool that pays the miners transaction fees ... like mine

As a noob who has been researching and learning and soaking up everything I can for the past 1.5 months while I wait for my S9's, the last piece of my puzzle is what pool to use. After all of my reading the recommendations on this forum, I will use Kano.

A bit daunting for a noob to setup but I am sure once I actually try with my miners in hand, I will have no problem. Looks like you have really put together a solid trustworthy pool in a field of greedy pool owners. Kudos!

wavelengthsf

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It also helps to circulate lists of pools that we know don't pay fees. I posted on reddit about Antpool, and people pointed out that only the PPNS and Solo pools keep the fees, the PPS version charges a percentage of the fees.

Aside from Antpool - does BTC.com pay fees? Who else withholds these?

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

I looked at it more closely since the top six keep fees but via.btc does give back some of them at the monment.

So the top five are a no go zero money sense to mine on them.

Viabtc is more complex. they are paying more then the block but not all the fees to the miners.

but the top five simply can not be used.

Kano = okay
ck solo = okay
the other ck = okay
mmpool = okay

nicehash is a no go as the rentals could point to the top five.

I have to study this but this is a different 50% attack

then block with-holding it is fucking worse really bad truly will kill btc while the top pools make more profit doing it then not doing it.

A fix is very important some say segwit but I think not.

A simple jump to 4,000,000 size blocks would work for now.

or everyone boycotts those top five.

mdude77

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Quote from: Shazam!!! on December 22, 2017, 08:59:48 PM

Very insightful Philipma! I've been doing a lot of research about pools trying to choose one for when I get set up again.
A lot has changed since 2015 that's for sure! I've been seeing a lot of people talk about this in different threads, but
you hit the nail on the head. At what point can we get a miners club going that only includes people with this mindset?
I don't want to use the word "union", but a group of people who stick to a certain set of rules, to take back power from
the big pools. I for one do not like what I see from the big pools, and wish there was something WE could do about it.

There is something WE can do about it.

Mine elsewhere. Support the little guys. Like Kano's pool.

And spread the word. Recruit.

M

Shazam!!!

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#takeminingback

Quote from: kano on December 22, 2017, 09:27:00 PM

Quote from: Shazam!!! on December 22, 2017, 08:59:48 PM

Very insightful Philipma! I've been doing a lot of research about pools trying to choose one for when I get set up again.
A lot has changed since 2015 that's for sure! I've been seeing a lot of people talk about this in different threads, but
you hit the nail on the head. At what point can we get a miners club going that only includes people with this mindset?
I don't want to use the word "union", but a group of people who stick to a certain set of rules, to take back power from
the big pools. I for one do not like what I see from the big pools, and wish there was something WE could do about it.

Ah - it's simple - mine at a pool that pays the miners transaction fees ... like mine

Actually, not tryin to blow smoke, but Your pool is at the top of my list. Has been for about a week. I can honestly say that
I really like what I see. I spent about 4hrs alone just reading back through your thread. Very nice work!

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: Shazam!!! on December 22, 2017, 08:59:48 PM

Very insightful Philipma! I've been doing a lot of research about pools trying to choose one for when I get set up again.
A lot has changed since 2015 that's for sure! I've been seeing a lot of people talk about this in different threads, but
you hit the nail on the head. At what point can we get a miners club going that only includes people with this mindset?
I don't want to use the word "union", but a group of people who stick to a certain set of rules, to take back power from
the big pools. I for one do not like what I see from the big pools, and wish there was something WE could do about it.

Ah - it's simple - mine at a pool that pays the miners transaction fees ... like mine

Shazam!!!

full member

Activity: 350

Merit: 158

#takeminingback

Very insightful Philipma! I've been doing a lot of research about pools trying to choose one for when I get set up again.
A lot has changed since 2015 that's for sure! I've been seeing a lot of people talk about this in different threads, but
you hit the nail on the head. At what point can we get a miners club going that only includes people with this mindset?
I don't want to use the word "union", but a group of people who stick to a certain set of rules, to take back power from
the big pools. I for one do not like what I see from the big pools, and wish there was something WE could do about it.

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

+1 for Kano's pool!

M

TheYankeesWin!

sr. member

Activity: 464

Merit: 301

Actually Phil is wrong it is worse then he said. The tx fees were 1495 coins.

The transactions were 370,000.

So if the top 3 pools did 52.2% of the blocks they would have earned 780 coins in fees.

So if they spent 300 coins to do 300,000 sends of 0.001 + 0.001 in fees they net 780 - 300 = 480 coins.

Since the average fee is 1495 / 370, 000 = 0.00404 and they jammed the network with 0.001 fees not 0.00404 they score big time.

We must mine on pools that share the fees or we will die here.

While no one can prove the top 3 pools are doing what Phil says the fact is they would make a huge profit if they are doing it.

We as miners must not mine at these pools.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

I was doing some math so here goes.

Tx fees are nuts 600 sats are not high enough.

Block fees are 5 or 6 even 8 and 9 btc.

Simple math is a block can have about 1000000 in room and the smallest transaction is 250
That is 4000 transaction as a max. Close estimate.

So. Big pools make 20% of the blocks and do not pay tx fees to miners they keep the fees.

So 20% of 144 is 29 blocks say that is 200 coins.

If they. Do 100000. Sends of 0.001 and pay 0.001. They are doing 1/3 of the networks capablity for that day.

so 100,000 x 0.002 = 200

but ½ is fees and ½ comes back to them

so each day they make 100 coins in fees and they ensure the network stays clogged up.

Instead of losing money doing 100,000 x 0.001 in tx fees they make a profit.

So if you mine at antpool, btc.com, viabtc.com or rent to nicehash and don't do any sends the big pools can simply clog the network and make money doing it.

My math is solid As I use one 20% pool and we know there are more then one 20% pool.

Based on this I now mine at mmpool.org as they pay the tx fees to the block hitter.

This is not speculation this is math founded in fact.

https://btc.com/

            24 Hours Change   3 Days Lucky

1    BTC.com---------2506.00 PH/s
2    AntPool----------2417.21 PH/s
3    BTC.TOP---------2111.00 PH/s
4    SlushPool--------1537.66 PH/s
5    ViaBTC-----------1522.87 PH/s
6    F2Pool-----------1112.35 PH/s

so if the top 3 do what I say

there is a big time issue for all of us.

https://btc.com/stats/diff

13400 ph is the current hashrate.

Antpool and btc.com are the same company that is 4900 of 13400

or 36.56%

lets break it down again using top 2 pools

36.56 x 144 daily blocks = 52.6 blocks a day with fees of 7 coins = 368.2 coins

150,000 sends of 0.001 + 0.001 tx fee = 300 coins since you are doing sends of 0.001 you get ½ back or 150 coins and you spend 150 coins.

Since you collect 368 coins you net 218 coins for your 52.6 blocks which is a sweet 4.14 coins in fees.

since the max transactions in a day is only 4000 x 144 = 560,000 and that is based on 227kb sends which are only some.

we do around

https://blockchain.info/stats

370,000 transactions a day.

if antpool and btc.com are taking 150,000 a day in the way I say the other transaction will be costly.

Lets make this more clear.

top 3 pools get in on this

this comes to 7000 /13400 hash = 52.2 %

lets say they do 220,000 sends of 0.001 + 0.001 tx fee

they would be taking 220,000 of 370,000 sends which is 59.4% of the sends

since 52.2% x 144 = 75.168 block with fees of 7 coins it is 526 coins in fees collected by the 3 of them combined

since 220,000 x 0.001 = 220 coins paid they gain 306 coins by doing this as a team of 3 pools

this is not block with holding it is fee manipulation .

My math is dead solid factual no speculation here.

To combat this all miners need to mine on fee sharing pools. and stop mining on pools that keep fees.

The math above shows the top 3 pools will not stop doing this since it makes them a shit ton of extra money.

So all you big guys leave those pools . Mine on pools that share the fees.

check these charts

the math shows this to be the reason.

Topic: Why all miners need to mine on a pool that pays them the tx fees. (Read 31986 times)