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Topic: Why aren't the worlds richest people buying up all the coins? - page 2. (Read 6329 times)

donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
Rich people may have some flaw in their thought models, let's call it "linear thinking". Their current modus operandi rewards them every day with position of power and luxury of life. It is impossible extremely hard to think that something created outside their sphere of influence, with a market cap of just 1 million or 1 billion, would be so crucial to them.

I know a guy who was not rich to begin with, upper middle class maximum, but he already thought so linearly so as to dismiss bitcoin when it was small. "I don't make investments to such small things." When price had gone up 10 times, he finally bought, and invested a conservative 1% of his net worth. This gave him about 1/10000 of all bitcoins, which is clearly a large interest, since it cannot be diluted.

Bitcoin price rose 1000% before the guy in the example understood that it does not matter, how much you pay for your bitcoins, what matters is how many you have. If a person is 100 times richer, and has similar thinking, and buys 100 times higher, he will have the same number of coins at the same relative investment (1% of his worth), and same relative position in bitcoin economy (1/10000 of all coins).

Most of the powercenters in bitcoin economy will be un-establishment. This is not because bitcoin is contraband, but because the mind models of the established people (with few exceptions) prevent them from purchasing bitcoin early on. In my estimation there is only about 10 people who have BTC100,000. The club is still open, but not too many admissions are available.


vqp
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
If their value will increase like everyone thinks, why wouldn't they? To get more wealthy

Bitcoin trading volume has reduced! Your assumption is wrong, that everyone thinks this and that. For "reach" (large volume) people is liquidity very important! If they cant sell anytime, they will not buy to much!
http://i.imm.io/1ihk5.png

But why Bitcoin volume has reduced???
Well, for one you are looking at MtGox volume in USD.  MtGox lost market share and USD lost market share in the last few months.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Hey guys,

Serious question here. Bitcoin has more awareness now than ever, but why aren't people like bill gates and warren buffet just buying all of the coins?

Do you ever wonder that? Like you would think they would be buying up all the coins, and the market cap would be tens of billions right now. Maybe they are going to war against Bitcoin?

A 51% attack controlled by opposition of Bitcoin would be fairly easy with the amount of resources these guys have.

Whats your opinion?


To give an analogous example; Warren Buffet famously shunned gold investment in early 2000 and plowed money into his enterprises that went on to underperformed gold over the proceeding decade. He would have been better off putting the cash into gold and not expending effort on his enterprises.

I think Bitcoin does not fit most people's mental models of how finances work. But then that comes down to a discussion of how allied with 'reality' people's mental models are.

Sure, Buffett "lost out" by not buying gold. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. He did buy a ton of businesses and shares of other companies that grew their earnings at rates generally faster than the economy did, though. Which, after doing his homework, was a prediction that he felt comfortable in making. Had he just piled into gold, there would have been zero earnings and zero earnings growth. His investment returns would have been based purely on hoping that someone else would offer more for it that he paid. Knowing what we know now, yes, he could have done better going that route. But there were zero guarantees of that happening; gold had been a horrible investment for the previous 15 or so years.

Just like Bitcoin; herd mentalities rule. I was getting a lot of inquiries from friends about "what is this bitcoin thing and how do i get into it?" when bitcoin was over $200. When it slipped down the the double digits, none of them expressed any interest whatsoever. Even someone i was dealing with on localbitcoins.com had gone and frantically sold all of his in the mid $90's; I kept inquiring, and he didn't buy back in until well after the trough... not at $60 or $70, but at $110 to $120. In essense, the age old mistake of buy high sell low.

That's disjointed. What i'm trying to say is that you can look at a "hot" commodity in hindsight and say "yeah, obviously everyone should have bought that" but in the real world, most people don't act that way. They see the price of something collapse (because everyone else is selling) and jump ship. And they get excited and buy in only after it's gone up quite a ways. The consensus of the world in 2000 was that gold was still a "go nowhere" investment. And unlike buinesses that grow and create more earnings, the only way for gold (and bitcoin, for that matter) to go up is by other people offering more and more for it. Where as an investment in a company, maybe the shares will be spurned for some time, but if it's operating well, it could generate positive returns for its owners in the form of dividends until that time that the rest of the market catches on.

And here's a point. The wealthy aren't going to buy bitcoin. They'll buy businesses operating in Bitcoin, quite possibly. But they're not going to make purchases of BTC itself on the hope that someone else will buy them from them for more later on. People here can do that, sure, because their purchases don't distort the market. And it takes relatively few bitcoins to make meaningful returns for most people here. If Buffett bought 10% the bitcoins in existence and they doubled in price, AND he was able to sell them all without pushing the price far down, the results would barely move the needle of his overall portfolio. Same goes for Gates and his Foundation, and for many other wealthy investors as well.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Well,

The winklevoss did it, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least one other does.

The thing is, once you're that rich, it doesn't seem like it'd do much harm to anybody to plop down a couple million on what might be called "risky investments" like Bitcoin, but I guess so many similar things (in terms of huge potential hype) go by each year that it must seem like just another flash in the pan for rich folk and they never bother to investigate any given phenomenon anymore. If they did, I'm almost sure more would invest in Bitcoin.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
What's stopping them? Basic economic logic.

Say you have 10 BTC and they offer to buy for $200 per bitcoin, so you sell 2 at that price. Well they are rich and want ALL your coins, so offer $300 and you sell 1 more. You don't want to sell too many with the price rising that fast, of course, so you always keep a chunk in reserve for the big payoff. Fine, they say, wanna play it that way? "$20,000 per coin!" You have 7 left, maybe you sell 4 of them, but not all of them because who knows where this is going? They eventually go ballistic and offer you $10 million for your last few coins. You sell just one, thinking $3 mil oughtta hold down the fort pretty well, and since they keep upping the ante why not wait until they offer a billion? Of course long before this they would run out of money. And well before that you'd start wondering if all that fiat money was even worth anything anymore, so you'd be even more incentivised to hold on to a few coins.

This property defines whether something is Money or not. It is impossible to buy up all bitcoins, or all gold, or all silver in existence, using fiat currency as payment. Long before you can corner all the supply, the exchange rate has shot to the stratosphere and the purchasing medium ceases to be a valid medium of payment i.e. is destroyed.

Of course you can try to corner e.g. all Picassos, and you may end up paying very high price for the last ones, but dollar is not destroyed in the process because it is still needed to function as money.

The reason why an attempt to corner gold, silver or bitcoins will destroy the dollar, is that both the object of the corner and the medium of payment are possible to work as media of exchange. The corner sends the value of the monetary stock of the gold/silver/bitcoins so high that automatic economic adjustment mechanisms debit this from the dollar, the value of which is thus lowered. (The aggregate total purchasing power of all money in existence cannot grow unbounded.)
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
I think the rich guy would prefer to invest in a company that produce ASIC instead of buying Bitcoin, they would earn even more using this strategy.

Buying Bitcoin is the safest investment in a lot of ways but no, a rich person wouldn't touch Bitcoin yet. The ultra rich want to buy control and power over others.

Bitcoin companies aren't run in a way which would give them much control over the community yet. In the future that could change if the community depends too much on Bitcoins and does not diversify into altcoins.

You don't really understand the concept of risk if you're labeling bitcoin the safest investment in -any- way. It's extremely risky as an asset class.
hero member
Activity: 708
Merit: 500
They are highly discouraged from investing in anything that could compete with the $
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
The rich are welcome to buy as much as they want. But they will have no edge over you. That is a beautiful thing about bitcoin, it's egalitarian free market nature.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
Bitcoin companies aren't run in a way which would give them much control over the community yet. In the future that could change if the community depends too much on Bitcoins and does not diversify into altcoins.
Any excuse, not matter how flimsy, to pump scamcoin will do, right?
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 510
I think the rich guy would prefer to invest in a company that produce ASIC instead of buying Bitcoin, they would earn even more using this strategy.

Buying Bitcoin is the safest investment in a lot of ways but no, a rich person wouldn't touch Bitcoin yet. The ultra rich want to buy control and power over others.

Bitcoin companies aren't run in a way which would give them much control over the community yet. In the future that could change if the community depends too much on Bitcoins and does not diversify into altcoins.
hero member
Activity: 906
Merit: 1034
BTC: the beginning of stake-based public resources
Hey guys,

Serious question here. Bitcoin has more awareness now than ever, but why aren't people like bill gates and warren buffet just buying all of the coins?

Do you ever wonder that? Like you would think they would be buying up all the coins, and the market cap would be tens of billions right now. Maybe they are going to war against Bitcoin?

A 51% attack controlled by opposition of Bitcoin would be fairly easy with the amount of resources these guys have.

Whats your opinion?


To give an analogous example; Warren Buffet famously shunned gold investment in early 2000 and plowed money into his enterprises that went on to underperformed gold over the proceeding decade. He would have been better off putting the cash into gold and not expending effort on his enterprises.

I think Bitcoin does not fit most people's mental models of how finances work. But then that comes down to a discussion of how allied with 'reality' people's mental models are.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
I think the rich guy would prefer to invest in a company that produce ASIC instead of buying Bitcoin, they would earn even more using this strategy.
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
No millionaire or billionaire will buy bitcoins from an exchange. They'll go hunting around for a private off-exchange deal. Some people have hundreds or thousands of coins, they will start there.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
the real answer to the question the OP asks is this.

at any one time there are probably only about 200k bitcoins on any one market which if every one of those coins sat at the sell order price of $140 it would cost $28MILLION to buy them.. but they're not all sat at a single order price, they are scattered up the sell wal at ever increasing prices.

at the moment clarkmoody shows there are 35k bitcoins on the MTGOX exchange with a sell point from £149 to $17,933,000,000 each

so ill leave you to imagine the costs to buy just 35kbitcoin in one swoop..  

now thats just 35k bitcoins.. not the 11.8MILLION bitcoins in existance..

member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
I agree I doubt "old money" type billionaires and millionaires will be getting into Bitcoin, but I don't see why young tech millionaires/billionaires wouldn't get into it.

Therefore, old money like Buffet and Gates won't be buying. But new money, like the facebook twins, they already bought.


ah I didn't know that they already bought. I imagine some of them have already made a lot of money off bitcoin if they purchased around the time I did when interest in it was first growing.
newbie
Activity: 34
Merit: 0
Serious question here. Bitcoin has more awareness now than ever, but why aren't people like bill gates and warren buffet just buying all of the coins?


I know I'm prolly going out on a limb here, but their sanity comes to mind as a good reason.

Check
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
Quote
Whats stopping the worlds richest from buying all the coins?

Reasons:
1. Lack of understanding. Professional investors do not invest in things they do not understand.

2. If I were to start using my billions to buy up all the BTC, then the price will skyrocket as I buy. Then it will crash when I stop. The rich and poor compete on a level playing field with bitcoin. 

3. They are buying a lot more coins than ever before. If Bill Gates has a million dollars worth of BTC, how would we know?
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
What's stopping them? Basic economic logic.

Say you have 10 BTC and they offer to buy for $200 per bitcoin, so you sell 2 at that price. Well they are rich and want ALL your coins, so offer $300 and you sell 1 more. You don't want to sell too many with the price rising that fast, of course, so you always keep a chunk in reserve for the big payoff. Fine, they say, wanna play it that way? "$20,000 per coin!" You have 7 left, maybe you sell 4 of them, but not all of them because who knows where this is going? They eventually go ballistic and offer you $10 million for your last few coins. You sell just one, thinking $3 mil oughtta hold down the fort pretty well, and since they keep upping the ante why not wait until they offer a billion? Of course long before this they would run out of money. And well before that you'd start wondering if all that fiat money was even worth anything anymore, so you'd be even more incentivised to hold on to a few coins.
legendary
Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
Do you ever wonder that? Like you would think they would be buying up all the coins, and the market cap would be tens of billions right now.

Buying 90% of all existing bitcoin would drive the price well over 10k each bitcoin.  And we must not forget that each 10 minutes new bitcoins are mined.. so they could never get ALL bitcoins.  I'm pretty sure some super-rich have already think of that, evaluated the move and understood it would never worth it, even to try to destroy it.

IMO, Bitcoin are like the internet, impossible to destroy !  It's there, and will last forever, like gold, but way better Wink



b!z
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1010
Because they are sane people and they don't need all of the Bitcoins.
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