Topic: Why BitCoin is about to explode again - page 2. (Read 6553 times)

Wow Ashley, I'm so sorry what happened to your money. People have killed for less.

All of europe though? the UK has a depositor bail-in? Well... shit. Maybe it's time to visit home and purchase silver.

I suppose in the end, at least in Bitcoin you actually have control. With a bank account in this world right now your "choice" is whatever the bank thinks is best for the bank. I'll trust my fellow tech nerds over the bankster thieves.

Bitcoin Ashley that is heinous 

I agree that if I were in Cyprus, I would have chosen Bitcoin over the banks (being already a bitcoiner of course). As a non-bitcoiner businessman with full knowledge of my company's legal requirements and responsibilities, much less accountability to investors or shareholders if any? Doubtful. As a business owner in any other country that doesn't seem to be in ruin like Cyprus? Most definitely *not*.

So I'm a business in Cyprus (or another country with depositor bail-ins authorized, which is an increasing number of countries incl. USA, Canada, all of Europe, New Zealand, Japan, etc.)

I have $800,000 in my account for operating expenses.

After bail-in, I only have $100,000.

If I had put half of that $800,000 in Bitcoin, depending on when I invested -
-I might have twice that amount or 10 times that amount
-I might have exactly the same as that amount
-If I invested towards the top of the bubble, I might have half that amount.
In any case, I'd still have more money than the $100,000 that is left after the bail-in.

For comparison; if I had some in PMs I'd be able to sell it at ~25% below spot, which is STILL less of a loss than taking the bail-in head on, but PMs are much harder to use for the operating budget. (It's easy to convert BTC back and forth, and some companies pay employees in bitcoin and pay for web services, etc.)

I don't think the risk that bitcoin will flop is higher than the risk that a bail-in will occur in any given country. Remember, risk, in the end (beyond all the actuarial algorithms) comes down to judgement. One person can look at the financial news and say "Oh, that won't happen here ayntime soon; I'm safer in Fiat right now." Another person can look at the same news and say "A haircut could happen here any day; I don't want to be the fool who's all-in Fiat monday morning when the bank holiday is announced."

Remember, nobody in Cyprus had any idea it was coming (except those who were forewarned.) They woke up one day and all of a sudden the government had frozen their bank accounts and was talking about taking thousands upon thousands of dollars of their money. This strategy has been authorized in many other countries since then, and most of these countries are, for all intensive purposes, financially insolvent and hanging by a thread. The one thing I know for certain is that if there is a depositor haircut in my country, I am not going to know about it days in advance. And the strategy is already authorized by my government. I'm not a fool.

I know the cultists will hate me saying this, but what's more likely-- a bank in your home country stealing your money or the price of bitcoin tanking as it's still a beta project of nerds that even the main developer says "don't put more into it than you can afford to lose"?

Moving your funds to Bitcoin, a place where no bank can touch you, certainly would beat out having your money stolen by your own bank. Is it any more risky to leave your money with an institution that can just steal it whenever they want to? If your money is in a bank, you no longer own it, the bank does.


More about Japan, set to be Cyprus 2.0

http://larouchepac.com/node/26931

in fact that was not a hippies calculation, but made by J Forrester father of System Dynamics and nowadays scenario not much different from how he described it in late 70s in his first book.

Im not so sure this is something to celebrate about.

I dont think that even one cvprus citizen bought a bitcoin. When they seized your bucks the last think you want to do is put yourlast coins in a highly speculative market like btc is. Dont buy the press. I read the press that in Argentina we re almost paying in the supermarket with bitcoins because our outrageous crisis. None of them is true too.

BTC will really rise if it gets into the real economy (starbucks, real estate, restaurantes...) accepting it. This is why for me the new start ups that are now being funded are the real middle-term very good news.

But we need the magical number of 10 billion to mimic the neurons in a human brain, so as to promote "global consciousness"
 

Those calculations completely ignore the plummeting (and entirely unpredicted) global fertility rate that is right now hovering just barely over the replacement level. We'll see population growth stop and then gradually reverse within the next few decades because women are choosing to have fewer children as populations move away from subsistence level standards of living. The population will probably flatten out and then start a very slow decline at just under 10 billion.

According to contemporary economists exponential growth forever.
According to a bunch of calculating hippies from the 1970s the bubble's gona pop.   

 According to some calculation which been made in 1970s, around 60% world population will be killed during one year, and then situation will stabilize. Historically world been solving unsolvable problems by migrating, making economical growth or technological advancements, or by using military force. Non of other options on the table by military force at this time.

I can't help but think the demand for alternatives will keep rising as the central planners and the death of socialism keeps on trucking...

You are definitely not alone and I share the same worries that you have stated.

Not only we live in a world were we are now worse off than our parents, but I am sure that if this trend continues where the rich get even richer and the middle class is squeezed to nothing, our children will end up much worse off than this generation. I believe it is time to advocate our right to the city and it is there where people SHOULD make a stand (Read Levebre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_the_city). The problem is that too many people are either busy, home-owners or are dependent by others or are simply oblivious of the situation.

Thanks for the thorough explanation. What is happening to PE ratios during this time? I mean are things getting back to the Internet bubble valuation days?

The interesting thing, which you alluded to, is that we the people are not really getting any of the money. It would be great if, like Max Keisser said, instead of giving the money to banks, they used some to raise the minimum wage rate to $20 hr.     

I just wonder how long this can continue? Bernanke said that they are going to ease up on QE. But if they touch interest rates, things might go BOOM. The USD will probably not fail before some other currencies go though.

They (we) are between a rock and a hard place, more like between two pieces of depleted uranium...

Shouldn't this be in Speculation?

Basically by inflating the markets this way it creates a false economy that is not in line with actual supply and demand, since the supply is artificial.

Imagine a game of Monopoly. The banker just gives you money from the box for the asking instead of making you actually earn it, which itself is paper and inherently worthless and more can be printed at any time. You use that money to buy houses and hotels to put on your properties also bought with this money. The problem is you can overbuild past demand because you can just keep getting more and more money. This creates an artificial economy. Building hotels on properties without any actual demand or need for them soon makes them insolvent as no one stays there. Soon the loans need paid back, and there is no rent coming in for these properties you built. You default on the loan, the bank has to add it to a mounting pile of unpaid debt. Otherwise called "insolvency". Soon your wive leaves you, you lose your house and become homeless, and probably use what you have left to start a drug addiction.

China has been doing exactly this, however they are building entire cities that are inhabited by no one and give nothing back to their real economy. The building keeps people employed, and construction businesses alive, and commodities markets alive to provide the raw materials. Without large bank loans to fund this construction, it would all grind to a halt because these cities are not generating any revenue to repay the loan needed to create them. 50 million workers would no longer have jobs, and the economy takes a serious hit when the reality of supply and demand snap back in line with how it really is. Businesses close, commodities markets bust, stock market goes down in flames, etc. This is in the process of happening right now.

This is going on all over the world thanks to Bernake's money press pumping funny money into the system constantly just to keep it all moving. There is no demand for the supply, because the supply is being driven by money that is created out of thin air and given away as credit instead of spent by people with a need for a service or product.


You can see how Bitcoin solves this by not allowing this kind of debt as our fractional reserve fiat system does, as Bitcoin essentially acts like a loan made in cash only, instead of a theoretical liability for the bank that can always just get more of the FEDs endlessly printed currency backed on absolutely nothing. As these markets start to burn bright, Bitcoin can swoop in and save the day, just like Cyprus.

I knew you knew the they... (see below) 

The thing that is not 100% clear to me is how do the markets drop if they are pumping them full of money, in two ways really:
1 - The artificially low interest rates make many savers (e.g. Japan, Germany, US, etc.) move money to the stock market - This adds to the building bubble.
2 - Banks are moving their money into assets (e.g. stock markets).

Now, how can that not be enough money to keep the markets going? Who is selling so much? It seems like the government is pumping the markets and thus allowing people with lots of shares to maybe start exiting before the crash? It isn't common Joe doing this.

Anyone?

More governments have been overthrown in the last 5 years than any other time in history, and tools like Twitter were integral to that. Remember what happened in Egypt? They shut down the Internet and that just made it worse. That regime is now dead. They still have a lot of problems for sure, but the point is all over the world right now this second people are not standing for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Turkey the 99% there seem to have no problem telling the police and government go fuck themselves

This isn't in America yet because we're doing better than the rest of the planet, because we print the worlds reserve currency. But look at Detroit and other cities that are crumbling, more and more now broke, jobless, and/or homeless. We already saw some sparks with the Occupy movement. The more freedoms are encroached upon, the more reaction there will be. When people lose the comfort of American Idol and blissful ignorance, they will be face to face with a cold, disgusting reality that the rest of the world already knows. Most people here no longer trust the media, with the NSA being outed as the 1984 Ministry it is public trust in our banks and government is vanishing quickly.

Decent Human beings don't want to believe such evil exists because it is so extreme. But I think we're starting to wake up finally to the simple fact something must be done. I myself am a financial exile with noting left to lose. All I am doing with my time now is whatever I can to kick the status quo in the teeth, and I am not alone.