Why bitcoin is better: see Target hack

wachtwoord

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 12:00:35 PM

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 11:22:39 AM

Why don't you share your safety secrets and how impenetrable your Bitcoins are so we can all learn how to become a foolproof BTC master like you?

M of N paper wallet with pieces stored in multiple different physical locations.

Good luck attackers!

I agree. Well, as long as nobody finds your pieces Grin

I was thinking it would be fun to set up a scavenger hunt for my family when I die. Having to search for their inheritance might take some of the sting out of losing me.

Err... maybe they will be pissed! LOL.

So cool. Hide them in temples across the Earth with traps and puzzles.

BTCisthefuture

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Very valid point about the positives of bitcoin. It's also worth pointing out though that debit/credit cards are insured and you almost always get your money back if you were to lose any, if someone gets access to your bitcoin (which is certainly possible) they are gone forever (at least as of right now in the current state of the bitcoin industry).

Basically, everything has its positives and negatives whether it be cash, cards, bitcoin, checks , money orders etc etc.

I do agree though, as the bitcoin industry continues to mature and more startups start providing even better solutions, bitcoin has the potentialy to be a very secure/safe way of making transactions. It already is imo but there's also still a lot of security risks mainly on the user end.

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 11:22:39 AM

Why don't you share your safety secrets and how impenetrable your Bitcoins are so we can all learn how to become a foolproof BTC master like you?

M of N paper wallet with pieces stored in multiple different physical locations.

Good luck attackers!

I agree. Well, as long as nobody finds your pieces Grin

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 11:47:10 AM

Getting back on topic ...

There is a structural weakness to the credit card system. Bitcoin gives an example of one way to fix the problem, but the legacy banking institutions do not even admit a problem exists.

Would it be possible for credit cards to change in such a way as to utilize private key signing? The general public might be wary of the finality involved in using bitcoins, and all the security needed to keep them safe.

Maybe the CC industry will have to adopt some new procedures to compete with Bitcoin. There's all sorts of security features that could be implemented for both BTC and CC to make them safer. A fingerprint scan working alongside a chip and pin may be a good idea.

Peter Lambert

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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye

Getting back on topic ...

There is a structural weakness to the credit card system. Bitcoin gives an example of one way to fix the problem, but the legacy banking institutions do not even admit a problem exists.

Would it be possible for credit cards to change in such a way as to utilize private key signing? The general public might be wary of the finality involved in using bitcoins, and all the security needed to keep them safe.

My idea: a dongle (keychain sized, or made in the form of a thick credit card?) which can communicate with the POS device wirelessly. The POS sends the transaction information, you click a button on the device and it uses your private key (stored on the device) to sign the info and send it back to the POS. This can be combined with a PIN entered into the POS for two factor authorization. Thus every transaction would be cryptographically signed and there would be no way for people to steal your credit card info.

I have not looked much into the RFID things now used along side more traditional credit cards, do they do anything besides transmit your data in plain text?

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: pontiacg5 on December 20, 2013, 11:17:05 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 10:43:35 AM

Quote from: headpolo on December 20, 2013, 10:29:34 AM

How could it be possible to steal my wallet if i'm storing it on paper offline?

Somebody could steal your paper wallet or get to access to your paper wallet when you make it or print it off, or you could lose it.

Really? You can decrypt my paper wallet without getting the needed info from me? You even assume my paper wallet is paper, that it ever even touched a printer, or that it ever existed on a computer as anything but RAM? For all you know all I need to access my bitcoins is on the face of a clock in my living room, steal that. I won't loose my paper wallet, because I'm not a tard and planned ahead.

You have no idea what you are talking about, it's blatantly obvious. Even if I had "hot" bitcoins on my PC you would still be hard pressed to ever lift them from me.

I wasn't talking to you, was I? He said paper wallets. Why don't you share your safety secrets and how impenetrable your Bitcoins are so we can all learn how to become a foolproof BTC master like you?

And yes, hard-pressed, but not impossible. Stop being so hotheaded.

pontiacg5

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 10:43:35 AM

Quote from: headpolo on December 20, 2013, 10:29:34 AM

How could it be possible to steal my wallet if i'm storing it on paper offline?

Somebody could steal your paper wallet or get to access to your paper wallet when you make it or print it off, or you could lose it.

Really? You can decrypt my paper wallet without getting the needed info from me? You even assume my paper wallet is paper, that it ever even touched a printer, or that it ever existed on a computer as anything but RAM? For all you know all I need to access my bitcoins is on the face of a clock in my living room, steal that. I won't loose my paper wallet, because I'm not a tard and planned ahead.

You have no idea what you are talking about, it's blatantly obvious. Even if I had "hot" bitcoins on my PC you would still be hard pressed to ever lift them from me.

Jan

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Shop at Target, become a target

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: headpolo on December 20, 2013, 10:29:34 AM

How could it be possible to steal my wallet if i'm storing it on paper offline?

Somebody could steal your paper wallet or get to access to your paper wallet when you make it or print it off, or you could lose it.

Quote from: pontiacg5 on December 20, 2013, 10:33:31 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 10:18:00 AM

Quote from: pontiacg5 on December 20, 2013, 09:52:07 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

If hackers are able to steal your bitcoins over wifi you obviously suck at bitcoin and need to read up on security before you are inevitably hit.

There are no bitcoin skimmers, there are no waitress copying card/priv key info. There's no name/physical address to the address(account) unless you put it there. If you think bitcoin is easier to steal that credit card info, well, I've got links to plenty of lists of cc #'s for sale all across the internet...

There's also lots of threads all over this site by people who have had their accounts hacked. There's almost always ways to get at your funds no matter how careful you are.

As headpolo says, you will never steal my offline bitcoins. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

There's lots of threads on people being ripped off for USD all over the internet, and I'd bet you 1000BTC that they highly outnumber the successful BTC scams in the world as well. I'd bet credit card fraud alone has a net cost that's a pretty sizable amout of BTC's market cap. And if you add banking fraud period I know for a fact that losess alone are greater than BTC's total market cap.

I know exactly what I'm talking about, and I'm not making an argument for or against which is better and how much goes missing, so no need to get defensive. That argument about scope of theft and fraud is irrelevant any way since BTC is used by a tiny minority.

DubFX

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Goverment wants currencies to be regulated and tracked etc etc...so no way at all.

pontiacg5

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 10:18:00 AM

Quote from: pontiacg5 on December 20, 2013, 09:52:07 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

If hackers are able to steal your bitcoins over wifi you obviously suck at bitcoin and need to read up on security before you are inevitably hit.

There are no bitcoin skimmers, there are no waitress copying card/priv key info. There's no name/physical address to the address(account) unless you put it there. If you think bitcoin is easier to steal that credit card info, well, I've got links to plenty of lists of cc #'s for sale all across the internet...

There's also lots of threads all over this site by people who have had their accounts hacked. There's almost always ways to get at your funds no matter how careful you are.

As headpolo says, you will never steal my offline bitcoins. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

There's lots of threads on people being ripped off for USD all over the internet, and I'd bet you 1000BTC that they highly outnumber the successful BTC scams in the world as well. I'd bet credit card fraud alone has a net cost that's a pretty sizable amout of BTC's market cap. And if you add banking fraud period I know for a fact that losess alone are greater than BTC's total market cap.

headpolo

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 10:18:00 AM

Quote from: pontiacg5 on December 20, 2013, 09:52:07 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

If hackers are able to steal your bitcoins over wifi you obviously suck at bitcoin and need to read up on security before you are inevitably hit.

There are no bitcoin skimmers, there are no waitress copying card/priv key info. There's no name/physical address to the address(account) unless you put it there. If you think bitcoin is easier to steal that credit card info, well, I've got links to plenty of lists of cc #'s for sale all across the internet...

There's also lots of threads all over this site by people who have had their accounts hacked. There's almost always ways to get at your funds no matter how careful you are.

How could it be possible to steal my wallet if i'm storing it on paper offline? Only way is exploiting the SHA2 algorithm i believe and if it happens whoe btc economy is doomed anyway.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: Gabi on December 20, 2013, 10:15:29 AM

Quote from: wachtwoord on December 20, 2013, 09:53:57 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

That's why you keep your private keys on an offline computer that never touches the internet.

That's why hardware wallets like Trezor are coming, exactly to fix that problem.

You can do this today without special hardware. I sell consultancy to people that need help.

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: pontiacg5 on December 20, 2013, 09:52:07 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

If hackers are able to steal your bitcoins over wifi you obviously suck at bitcoin and need to read up on security before you are inevitably hit.

There are no bitcoin skimmers, there are no waitress copying card/priv key info. There's no name/physical address to the address(account) unless you put it there. If you think bitcoin is easier to steal that credit card info, well, I've got links to plenty of lists of cc #'s for sale all across the internet...

There's also lots of threads all over this site by people who have had their accounts hacked. There's almost always ways to get at your funds no matter how careful you are.

Gabi

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Quote from: wachtwoord on December 20, 2013, 09:53:57 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

That's why you keep your private keys on an offline computer that never touches the internet.

That's why hardware wallets like Trezor are coming, exactly to fix that problem.

wachtwoord

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Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

That's why you keep your private keys on an offline computer that never touches the internet.

pontiacg5

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

If hackers are able to steal your bitcoins over wifi you obviously suck at bitcoin and need to read up on security before you are inevitably hit.

There are no bitcoin skimmers, there are no waitress copying card/priv key info. There's no name/physical address to the address(account) unless you put it there. If you think bitcoin is easier to steal that credit card info, well, I've got links to plenty of lists of cc #'s for sale all across the internet...

rayfloyd

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

Even then it's not 40M computers all at once it's only one.

Even then, they don't have your private key (unless it's abc123).

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

It's not really any different than having your card details taken by hackers as in this case.

Piggy

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Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

Peter Lambert

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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on December 20, 2013, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on December 20, 2013, 09:21:59 AM

With bitcoin, you never give anybody the information they need to spend your money like you do every day with credit cards.

True, but somebody could get access to your computer or phone and passwords if you're using public wifi.

Somebody hacking into your computer is completely different from willingly handing over all the information needed to make fraudulent purchases.

Topic: Why bitcoin is better: see Target hack (Read 1875 times)