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Topic: Why Bitcoin is not that good as currency? - page 15. (Read 2195 times)

hero member
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October 07, 2019, 07:49:17 PM
#24
bitcoin is not used as a currency, it seems that the influence of total supply is very limited and the price is very expensive so it makes the price of bitcoin very expensive and is not suitable if used as a currency because it will be difficult to use for transactions.

But it has been used as currency for years, people buy and sell things using bitcoin as a medium of exchange, it's a daily routine here in this forum and many others out there do it. What makes bitcoin isn't so good as fiat money due to its volatility, early adopters hoarding bitcoin while the whales on the wall street manipulate the price according to their need to gain profit in this market. The limited supply of bitcoin isn't the main problem, scarcity makes bitcoin won't lose its value to zero instead keep rising.
hero member
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October 07, 2019, 03:47:14 PM
#23
The problem comes with the limited supply that bitcoin has.

The majority who owns most of the supply of bitcoin has the power to manipulate and control the prices in the market. In addition, having a currency which the government cannot control through the Central Bank may be potentially problematic in the future. Not to mention, relying on a digital currency where most people lack the access to such is destructive and prejudicial to them.
sr. member
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Duelbits - $100k Bonus/week
October 07, 2019, 02:30:11 PM
#22
This is true, the inflation of fiat as a currency causing the market to become more expensive, the products will increase their respective price depends on the supply and demand, while cryptocurrency doesn't even care about this inflation thingy, on the contrary, bitcoin overpowered fiat because of that. I can't imagine why people are not waking up from their delusions that fiat is more better than bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
But as we can see on image it's a short period of time 2024, it takes probably more time to realize them how useful bitcoin is. The answer is
simply it's because of its price. The price of bitcoin is volatile, It may rise or fall from time to time so it's hard for us to use it because we don't know when we buy things it value is high but when we are about to pay the value of bitcoin drop down so we might lose a lot of money.
hero member
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October 07, 2019, 10:16:39 AM
#21
This is true, the inflation of fiat as a currency causing the market to become more expensive, the products will increase their respective price depends on the supply and demand, while cryptocurrency doesn't even care about this inflation thingy, on the contrary, bitcoin overpowered fiat because of that. I can't imagine why people are not waking up from their delusions that fiat is more better than bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
hero member
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October 07, 2019, 06:49:47 AM
#20
The problem I think has something to do with its market value stability. We can clearly notice such problem at this moment. Currencies are created in order to promote equality with the world market, correct me if I'm wrong. This I think is the main reason why Bitcoin and other cryptos are having difficulties to be accepted in some countries simply because its market value drops at some time, as what we are witnessing at this moment.
You are wrong it's not regarding the value stability. Value stability will happen one day when everyone comes on the same platform of using cryptocurrencies but the deflationary nature of crypto can never be changed. Moreover difficulties is because the prices of goods would become cheaper every next day and not market value drops.

It's true that people are incentivized more to keep their Bitcoin over actually spending them, and we're seeing the effects as early as now, even while supply is still rising. There's no way it will work as a replacement to fiat with the way our economy is set up, where growth is driven by debt and spending -- the question is, why would we need Bitcoin to replace fiat in the first place?

Bitcoin was never meant to replace dollars, kill banks, or save economies. It's there so you could have money you could do whatever you want with, whether that's spending, hodling, or anything in between, while fiat can go ahead and do its thing. While Bitcoin absolutely should be viable for daily spending (people who want to go down this route wouldn't care about deflation anyway), it doesn't necessarily have to be used that way.
Bitcoin I think was created to be used as a currency and a currency means something which could be used as a means of settlement. So if you want to say that Bitcoin was not created with an intent to replace dollars then you are really mistaken.
I think by using bitcoin as a currency, it will need all approval from all countries and the governments which I think they will not easy to agree for accepting bitcoin.

Actually, no. We already use Bitcoin as currency, and that without asking a government for permission. Merchants can also accept Bitcoin without permission from their governments. If you start to wait for governments to finally give you that approval of use, you are not aware of what Bitcoin is meant to combat. Bitcoin is permissionless money.

In all honesty, I have not much against fiat as money on a daily basis. It works exceptionally well as long as you don't have too much long term exposure in form of savings. It's of course different if you live in a country such as Venezuela, but furtunately speaking, I live in Europe and don't have to go through the problems Venezuelans go through.

In the end, everyone has to decide whether or not Bitcoin is a good currency based on where they live, and what they need it for. In some cases fiat comes out as the better option, but there are plenty of situations where Bitcoin is the better option to go for.
Bitcoin sounds like a better option at a microeconomic level but there is no way that it can live upto that good on a macroeconomic level which is the problem with bitcoin in the very first place.
In case of deflationary currency such as Bitcoin, as we are giving our aggregate demand at current price levels. Or in layman terms we are buying at certain price level. Say for example( a completely hypothetical situation), Wheat . You can buy 1kg of wheat for 1 bitcoin today. Now imagine that we grow in our economy and it leads to better production of wheat due to increased efficiency in production. Now we would have more wheat to sell. However, the supply would increase and demand will not because people still have the same 21 million bitcoin in circulation. So now we will have more wheat and the prices would go down and down. But in such case people will begin to hoard money. The will not spend their bitcoin in anticipation of it prices declining tomorrow. This would lead to even more deflation as demand would decrease even further. Thus creating a spiral which we often call the deflationary Spiral. I think this is why thinking bitcoin as a mainstream currency could pose a lot of problems for all of us.

PS: Supply of goods( Aggregate Supply) and supply of money are separate things
  Demand of money and demand of goods( Aggregate Demand) are two separate things

Do you agree or refute?

i don't expect to see a future where bitcoin is a national currency. at most, it would be part of a basket of assets (along with gold, silver, etc) that back a fiat currency. so it's probably unnecessary to view bitcoin in a vacuum, as if the whole of economic growth would be restricted to its supply.

your arguments also lead to the age old debate between keynesians and austrians. i'm not sure i feel like injecting myself into that debate!
Bitcoin to be a national currency takes time, because it needs to go mainstream first. To reach such a level it is not simple, because when countries start using bitcoin it will affect their own currency go low in value. Maybe when more countries move to the digital trend bitcoin might get importance as a currency. Until then it is much preferred to be assets similar to gold, silver and other valuables.

There is probably less than 1% possibility of Bitcoin becoming a national currency. I cannot even imagine a sovereign country declaring a currency not of their making, not under their direct regulation or supervision, and not issued by them to become a national currency. The most that can happen to Bitcoin is for it to become the global currency, bridging together all kinds of national currencies. One can travel or send money all over the world without the need to go through different national currencies.
Actually, I am not against making it a national currency or even with it but the point is if this is not the goal then what do you mean by Widespread Adoption? Because I don't see a great future with cryptos and fiats going hand in hand.
legendary
Activity: 2296
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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
October 07, 2019, 06:27:07 AM
#19
OP's reasoning is good and that is why we don't only have a deflationary economy. We have a deflationary bitcoin and an inflationary fiat that work together. There were many debates if Bitcoin can become the world currency and most people think that if it will it's going to be alongside fiat. Fiat money as the weaker money you can spend freely and Bitcoin as that good money you spend on special occasions and hedge against fiat.

I also don't see people hoarding Bitcoin if this was the only way to pay for things. They would buy as much as they would want. Do you think that demand must always increase even if the needs of the population do not? You have 1 BTC wheat and suddenly you can get the same amount for 0.5 because of lower production cost. You simply buy 0.5. Would you rather see people stock up on wheat because it's cheap and then don't know what to do with it as it gets even cheaper? You can produce it cheaper, do it. There's no demand? Produce less!
legendary
Activity: 2170
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October 07, 2019, 06:08:54 AM
#18
I think by using bitcoin as a currency, it will need all approval from all countries and the governments which I think they will not easy to agree for accepting bitcoin.

Actually, no. We already use Bitcoin as currency, and that without asking a government for permission. Merchants can also accept Bitcoin without permission from their governments. If you start to wait for governments to finally give you that approval of use, you are not aware of what Bitcoin is meant to combat. Bitcoin is permissionless money.

In all honesty, I have not much against fiat as money on a daily basis. It works exceptionally well as long as you don't have too much long term exposure in form of savings. It's of course different if you live in a country such as Venezuela, but furtunately speaking, I live in Europe and don't have to go through the problems Venezuelans go through.

In the end, everyone has to decide whether or not Bitcoin is a good currency based on where they live, and what they need it for. In some cases fiat comes out as the better option, but there are plenty of situations where Bitcoin is the better option to go for.
sr. member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 416
October 07, 2019, 05:45:38 AM
#17
bitcoin is not used as a currency, it seems that the influence of total supply is very limited and the price is very expensive so it makes the price of bitcoin very expensive and is not suitable if used as a currency because it will be difficult to use for transactions.

I hope that even bitcoin cannot be used as a currency, we could still use bitcoin to pay or buy some products. Or maybe in that time, we can use another coins that can be a bridge from the currency we already use and the digital coins. I think by using bitcoin as a currency, it will need all approval from all countries and the governments which I think they will not easy to agree for accepting bitcoin.
I knew that bitcoin is versatile and can be used in any transaction you like such as trading, investment and buying some stuff. However, for me it is better to be used an asset in trading and investment since of the fluctiative manner of crypto so which is perfect from this kind of transaction.
sr. member
Activity: 756
Merit: 251
October 07, 2019, 05:19:53 AM
#16
In case of deflationary currency such as Bitcoin, as we are giving our aggregate demand at current price levels. Or in layman terms we are buying at certain price level. Say for example( a completely hypothetical situation), Wheat . You can buy 1kg of wheat for 1 bitcoin today. Now imagine that we grow in our economy and it leads to better production of wheat due to increased efficiency in production. Now we would have more wheat to sell. However, the supply would increase and demand will not because people still have the same 21 million bitcoin in circulation. So now we will have more wheat and the prices would go down and down. But in such case people will begin to hoard money. The will not spend their bitcoin in anticipation of it prices declining tomorrow. This would lead to even more deflation as demand would decrease even further. Thus creating a spiral which we often call the deflationary Spiral. I think this is why thinking bitcoin as a mainstream currency could pose a lot of problems for all of us.

PS: Supply of goods( Aggregate Supply) and supply of money are separate things
  Demand of money and demand of goods( Aggregate Demand) are two separate things

Do you agree or refute?

i don't expect to see a future where bitcoin is a national currency. at most, it would be part of a basket of assets (along with gold, silver, etc) that back a fiat currency. so it's probably unnecessary to view bitcoin in a vacuum, as if the whole of economic growth would be restricted to its supply.

your arguments also lead to the age old debate between keynesians and austrians. i'm not sure i feel like injecting myself into that debate!
Bitcoin to be a national currency takes time, because it needs to go mainstream first. To reach such a level it is not simple, because when countries start using bitcoin it will affect their own currency go low in value. Maybe when more countries move to the digital trend bitcoin might get importance as a currency. Until then it is much preferred to be assets similar to gold, silver and other valuables.

There is probably less than 1% possibility of Bitcoin becoming a national currency. I cannot even imagine a sovereign country declaring a currency not of their making, not under their direct regulation or supervision, and not issued by them to become a national currency. The most that can happen to Bitcoin is for it to become the global currency, bridging together all kinds of national currencies. One can travel or send money all over the world without the need to go through different national currencies.
hero member
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October 07, 2019, 05:14:08 AM
#15
bitcoin is not used as a currency, it seems that the influence of total supply is very limited and the price is very expensive so it makes the price of bitcoin very expensive and is not suitable if used as a currency because it will be difficult to use for transactions.

I hope that even bitcoin cannot be used as a currency, we could still use bitcoin to pay or buy some products. Or maybe in that time, we can use another coins that can be a bridge from the currency we already use and the digital coins. I think by using bitcoin as a currency, it will need all approval from all countries and the governments which I think they will not easy to agree for accepting bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 910
Merit: 254
October 07, 2019, 05:05:26 AM
#14
It's true that people are incentivized more to keep their Bitcoin over actually spending them, and we're seeing the effects as early as now, even while supply is still rising. There's no way it will work as a replacement to fiat with the way our economy is set up, where growth is driven by debt and spending -- the question is, why would we need Bitcoin to replace fiat in the first place?

True! Bitcoin wasn't created to become mainstream currency or a direct substitute to fiat. It was created as a mean of online remittance without involving third-party like PayPal, etc. - A P2P direct cash system. It surely fulfils this promise. We can conduct an anonymous transaction, anytime, anywhere with Bitcoin.
But the problem is people's misconception. Lot of members here advocate as well as promote Bitcoin as a currency. Well, there is no denying that Bitcoin has most of the features a currency could have. One can certainly use it to pay for goods and service. But it's just one aspect of Bitcoin. It is wrong to limit it to this particular use-case only.
hero member
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October 07, 2019, 05:01:28 AM
#13
bitcoin is not used as a currency, it seems that the influence of total supply is very limited and the price is very expensive so it makes the price of bitcoin very expensive and is not suitable if used as a currency because it will be difficult to use for transactions.
sr. member
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
October 07, 2019, 04:50:44 AM
#12
In case of deflationary currency such as Bitcoin, as we are giving our aggregate demand at current price levels. Or in layman terms we are buying at certain price level. Say for example( a completely hypothetical situation), Wheat . You can buy 1kg of wheat for 1 bitcoin today. Now imagine that we grow in our economy and it leads to better production of wheat due to increased efficiency in production. Now we would have more wheat to sell. However, the supply would increase and demand will not because people still have the same 21 million bitcoin in circulation. So now we will have more wheat and the prices would go down and down. But in such case people will begin to hoard money. The will not spend their bitcoin in anticipation of it prices declining tomorrow. This would lead to even more deflation as demand would decrease even further. Thus creating a spiral which we often call the deflationary Spiral. I think this is why thinking bitcoin as a mainstream currency could pose a lot of problems for all of us.

PS: Supply of goods( Aggregate Supply) and supply of money are separate things
  Demand of money and demand of goods( Aggregate Demand) are two separate things

Do you agree or refute?

i don't expect to see a future where bitcoin is a national currency. at most, it would be part of a basket of assets (along with gold, silver, etc) that back a fiat currency. so it's probably unnecessary to view bitcoin in a vacuum, as if the whole of economic growth would be restricted to its supply.

your arguments also lead to the age old debate between keynesians and austrians. i'm not sure i feel like injecting myself into that debate!
Bitcoin to be a national currency takes time, because it needs to go mainstream first. To reach such a level it is not simple, because when countries start using bitcoin it will affect their own currency go low in value. Maybe when more countries move to the digital trend bitcoin might get importance as a currency. Until then it is much preferred to be assets similar to gold, silver and other valuables.
hero member
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Bobby Fischer was right
October 07, 2019, 04:38:14 AM
#11
...They will not spend their bitcoin in anticipation of it prices declining tomorrow...
This is the place, where I must refute.
You are missing very important aspect of the economy of today. We are no longer in production-only era of economics.
The key are the services. People cant simply stop to spend, hoping for price bump. They have obligated themself to pay for various services, like electricity, water, heating, all kinds of e-media, in general stuff we have became addicted to.
Exchange of money for goods is no longer about physical goods alone, that's why your model is inadequate.

So, "Why Bitcoin is not that good as currency?" let me answer your question as simple as possible, it is only because transactions can not be reversed. That's it. No mystery because in this imperfect world, full of imperfect people, perfect financial system that disregards human errors, can't be viewed as consumer friendly. I have zero complains about irreversibility but imagine all those technological-illiterates...  not a chance.
member
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October 07, 2019, 04:32:09 AM
#10
the fact that it is something people hoard makes it by definition bad money.

A nice point there, the hoarding is what disqualifies it to be defined as legal tender. Fiat is not hoard by an individual to deprive other people from getting it and causing artificial scarcity just like product. It is only the central financial body that can hoard fiat, like the central banks either to control inflation through interest rates and other means. But bitcoin can be influenced by the whales to their own benefit. To this point and high volatility ; so far, it is still far to be good as currency.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
October 07, 2019, 04:25:06 AM
#9
In case of deflationary currency such as Bitcoin, as we are giving our aggregate demand at current price levels. Or in layman terms we are buying at certain price level. Say for example( a completely hypothetical situation), Wheat . You can buy 1kg of wheat for 1 bitcoin today. Now imagine that we grow in our economy and it leads to better production of wheat due to increased efficiency in production. Now we would have more wheat to sell. However, the supply would increase and demand will not because people still have the same 21 million bitcoin in circulation. So now we will have more wheat and the prices would go down and down. But in such case people will begin to hoard money. The will not spend their bitcoin in anticipation of it prices declining tomorrow. This would lead to even more deflation as demand would decrease even further. Thus creating a spiral which we often call the deflationary Spiral. I think this is why thinking bitcoin as a mainstream currency could pose a lot of problems for all of us.

PS: Supply of goods( Aggregate Supply) and supply of money are separate things
  Demand of money and demand of goods( Aggregate Demand) are two separate things

Do you agree or refute?

i don't expect to see a future where bitcoin is a national currency. at most, it would be part of a basket of assets (along with gold, silver, etc) that back a fiat currency. so it's probably unnecessary to view bitcoin in a vacuum, as if the whole of economic growth would be restricted to its supply.

your arguments also lead to the age old debate between keynesians and austrians. i'm not sure i feel like injecting myself into that debate!
legendary
Activity: 1652
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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
October 07, 2019, 04:17:14 AM
#8
The issue is this: people hoard scarce currencies like bitcoin or gold.

Now imagine that you couldn't use dollars, euros or any fiat, and there was just gold and bitcoin. And the price of gold and bitcoin kept rising because they're scarce.

You might spend a little on absolute necessities - food, rent and so on. But you wouldn't spend on luxuries like going to the cinema etc, you would hoard your bitcoin because the price is rising.

That would completely collapse the world economy. Most of the things we spend money on are not necessities. The few people with gold and bitcoin would be fine, the rest who depend on their jobs would be absolutely miserable because their jobs and income would disappear.

That's why people fear deflationary currencies and that's why central banks encourage a small amount of inflation - it's to encourage people to spend.
hero member
Activity: 1834
Merit: 759
October 07, 2019, 04:15:00 AM
#7
It's true that people are incentivized more to keep their Bitcoin over actually spending them, and we're seeing the effects as early as now, even while supply is still rising. There's no way it will work as a replacement to fiat with the way our economy is set up, where growth is driven by debt and spending -- the question is, why would we need Bitcoin to replace fiat in the first place?

Bitcoin was never meant to replace dollars, kill banks, or save economies. It's there so you could have money you could do whatever you want with, whether that's spending, hodling, or anything in between, while fiat can go ahead and do its thing. While Bitcoin absolutely should be viable for daily spending (people who want to go down this route wouldn't care about deflation anyway), it doesn't necessarily have to be used that way.
sr. member
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www.Artemis.co
October 07, 2019, 04:10:22 AM
#6
The descending value of fiat will be passed on generation by generation. Good thing that we have choices and wisdom to survive in the current financial system. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are the future of money it only needs to stabilised before it will dethrone the fiat system.
sr. member
Activity: 1050
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October 07, 2019, 03:13:19 AM
#5
The problem I think has something to do with its market value stability. We can clearly notice such problem at this moment. Currencies are created in order to promote equality with the world market, correct me if I'm wrong. This I think is the main reason why Bitcoin and other cryptos are having difficulties to be accepted in some countries simply because its market value drops at some time, as what we are witnessing at this moment.
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