Topic: Why bitcoin isn't currency. - page 2. (Read 21387 times)

When China EMPs the US, the only currency in the US will be food and guns. Everything else is essentially worthless.

Madman...lunatic... genius?     

I dunno.  I think there's a small amount of signal in the noise.

My personal translation of the message was "I'm a lunatic, ignore me."  So I did.

23 pages later the original post is still more or less the meaningless rantings of a madman.

Absolutely nothing about this post is meaningful in any way.

This is interesting also because of the communal public ledger, where everyone just knows who owns which Rai, even the one at the bottom of the river.  Money as memory.

Many libertarians are hung up on the intrinsic value delusion. It's a tragedy.

No clue about Bitcoin. Also:


Strawman.


Strawman and crazy person!


No clue about Bitcoin. Also, crazy person.



This "intrinsic value" argument has been disproven sufficiently elsewhere. And yeah, taking advice about this stuff from "debaser-of-the-entirely-fiat-dollar" Alan Greenspan, is ironic.


Pretty much no one prices goods and services in terms of ounces of gold either. Gold is not a currency either.

A digital equivalent of gold is still a wonderful thing.


No relation to that crazy guy Gary North, is there?

"I don't even believe in intrinsic value." Well, glad we've got that agreed upon.

"You're just building a new bank." "Absolutely." 

"What problem does Bitcoin solve?" Electronic settlement (you can send it in hours or less, over the Internet). It's a digital equivalent of gold.

"Those are technical questions that I don't have any basis of knowledge on." Well said.

"We need to create a digital currency that emulates the way that the dollar works." WTF? No, on the contrary.


I really don't understand what the point is of all of this.

Also, crazy person.


He's talking about "intrinsic value". But you agree above that there's no such thing as "intrinsic value".


"Bitcoin might be a bubble or it might be THE FUTURE, but there's one thing it's not: a currency."

Fair enough. Gold nuggets aren't currency either.

The two examples given above meet the criteria of currency, They were a medium of exchange and a unit of account. They where both definable and where a constant.  

Ya I agree that is a problem. The dollar is not currency either and look at the world as a result. Look at how trade doesnt have to balance, currency wars, manipulation, massive budget deficits, the inequality of labor rates world wide, boom and bust cycles, and asset bubbles 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wampum#Currency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones

Usually.

Baseball cards are designed to be exchanged as a collectable, not as an actual medium-of-exchange.


A bitcoin is as much of a unit of value as the US Dollar is, as I have noted repeatedly in this very thread.  A unit does not require an external reference, as you seem to claim.  All that is required that a unit exist, is that more than a few people agree upon a (preferablely not vague, but even that is not a requirement; take a look at the variance in the concept of a "cord" of firewood) standard.  The bitcoin exchange markets set the 'standard' of price for a bitcoin on an ongoing basis.  But in the long term, a bitcoin is a bitcoin in as much as a dollar is a dollar.


Okay.  Your opinion is well known on this matter, but it doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is a currency.


Just because it may not work for you as a currency, doesn't mean it doesn't work for me.  I've used it as such on numerous occasions in the past. I expect to continue to do so; but even if I'm wrong about such an expectation does not imply that Bitcoin is not presently a currency, because it provably is.  A Continental was a currency once as well, but that doesnt' mean that they must be 'worth a Continental' today to have been a currency in 1778.  Maybe Bitcoin will fade away like so many others here believe, and maybe it won't; but if I can buy stuff online using Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin, in trade; then Bitcoin is a currency now, regardless of how or why that is so.

I know I wish the rest of this community realized that.

@OP By definition , currency is usually backed, defined and produced by a government or some authority.

A baseball card is a medium of exchange, magic cards were designed to be exchanged are they currency? No, medium of exchange is one function of currency another is unit of account bitcoin is not a unit of account because it is not a unit.
If it is a currency it is going for the the most useless currency of all time... in other words if bitcoin is a currency it is a shit one.

You are a Ron Paul supporter right? Why advocate for something that wont work? It isnt valuable as a commodity and doesnt work as a currency.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

A "currency" is a designed medium of exchange, that may or may not be "backed" by a commodity, or may or may not be "backed" as legal tender by some government.  While a money, such as gold, can be minted into coins (and thus also be a currency) a true money is a common commodity that functions as a medium of exchange in a free market, but may not have a 'standard' unit.  By coining that gold into a standard unit, such as a one troy ounce shape with some king's face on it, and declaring it the official money of the realm, a currency is created.  However, the past 100 or so years are proof enough that once a currency is well established and trusted to continue; the original money behind the currency is often no longer necessary.  All fiat currencies are designed by men, whether or not they ever contained (or were otherwise backed by) gold or silver.  Bitcoin is a currency because it was designed (presumedly by one or more human beings) to function as a medium of exchange on the Internet.  Whether or not Bitcoin is a good currency or not is up for debate, and whether or not any particular government agency desires to recognize that Bitcoin is a currency or not is irrelevent; but Bitcoin is a currency regardless.

It is not, however, a true money; because regardless of how useful it is as a medium of exchange, or even as a store of value, Bitcoin never had a pre-existing and non-monetary utility that would have driven it's adoption in a free market as a highly marketable good.

Nor is Bitcoin a fiat currency, because no government institution requires it's use in any context.  Bitcoin is difficult for some to explain, or even wrap their heads around, because it's something new in the realm of exchange mediums.  It's closest to a LETS (Local area Exchange system) wherein the local area is the entire Internet, and that uses triple entry accounting to track exchanges; but it's not a debt based system and the total number of currency units are fixed and known at any given point in time.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/11857.cfm

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-bitcoin-will-never-be-a-currency--in-two-charts-2013-12?pundits_only=0&comments_page=0#comment-52ade9fc6bb3f74a0b70d7f2

http://www.garynorth.com/public/11854.cfm

http://teapartyeconomist.com/2013/12/09/bitcoins-inside-dope/

http://teapartyeconomist.com/2013/12/06/bitcoins-threat-federal-reserve-system/

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fair-price-of-a-bitcoin-is-zero-2013-12

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-04/greenspan-baffled-over-bitcoin-bubble-be-worth-something-it-must-be-backed-something

http://drivebycuriosity.blogspot.com/2013/11/economy-why-bitcoin-is-toy-and-not.html?showComment=1386215068159#c6338894686337072959

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV-32qmLG64  This one is with me and a bitcoin supporter.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/11843.cfm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L7SOPDOvvI

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/bitcoin-is-no-longer-a-currency/274859/