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Topic: Why Bitcoin might soon make your 401k obsolete (Read 2794 times)

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Problem with 401K is that it's not inflation proof.  Your Grandmother, presumably if she's old enough, likely remembers when she only paid $0.05 for a Coca Cola in a restaurant; whereas today, a Coca Cola costs up to $2 (if not $3 in a bar).  Coca Cola increased 40 to 60 times within generational memory.  The samething will happen to your 401K - it'll decrease in value by 20 to 60 times by the time you collect.


Pensions suffer the same issue too, I might add, unless you have an indexed pension like government workers.  The reality is most of us will probably die from starvation in our old age due to not having any money, unless we manage to keep a job somehow.  

That's the reality of inflation, folks.  Back in the age of prosperity, when currencies did not inflate to the moon, it wasn't uncommon for people to retire in their 50s.  It's a dystopian society if we are working people to death, especially when this is contrasted by all the Paris Hiltons and other capital owning parasites
The price of a soda varies very widely from restaurant to restaurant. The vast majority of restaurants also offer something called "free refills" today, while this was likely not the case when Coca Cola cost $0.05 (fountain drinks technology was not available at this time, and it was always sold in bottles), so when you pay "$2" at a restaurant you are really paying a total of $2 for as many Coca Colas as you drink while you are at the restaurant.

The value of 401k's is based on the investments in the account. It is the goal of these investments to beat inflation. In 1914 the Dow Jones Industrial average (DJIA) was at ~71 (for rounding we can call it 100), as of yesterday the DJIA closed at 16851.84 (call it 16,000 for rounding). This is a return of 160x verses 60x for your soda example (from 5 cents to $3 at a bar). 

This raises an interesting dilemma... When you assume it's free refills and they double charge you,
do you complain about the bill or let it slide?  Smiley
What do you mean by double charge me?

Do you mean that the restaurant charges more then they have to charge me? In other words they could charge me $1.50 but charge me $3.00 instead. If this is the case then no I would not say anything as this is their posted price and I have the right to not buy the product (soda in this case) if I so choose.

If you mean that their price is $3.00 for one soda and the server put $6.00 on the bill, then yes I would absolutely say something. There is no reason to pay more for something that what I had agreed to pay. The server would likely be more then happy to remove the extra charge as if she wouldn't then the extra charge would likely come directly out of her tip. 
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
Problem with 401K is that it's not inflation proof.  Your Grandmother, presumably if she's old enough, likely remembers when she only paid $0.05 for a Coca Cola in a restaurant; whereas today, a Coca Cola costs up to $2 (if not $3 in a bar).  Coca Cola increased 40 to 60 times within generational memory.  The samething will happen to your 401K - it'll decrease in value by 20 to 60 times by the time you collect.


Pensions suffer the same issue too, I might add, unless you have an indexed pension like government workers.  The reality is most of us will probably die from starvation in our old age due to not having any money, unless we manage to keep a job somehow.  

That's the reality of inflation, folks.  Back in the age of prosperity, when currencies did not inflate to the moon, it wasn't uncommon for people to retire in their 50s.  It's a dystopian society if we are working people to death, especially when this is contrasted by all the Paris Hiltons and other capital owning parasites
The price of a soda varies very widely from restaurant to restaurant. The vast majority of restaurants also offer something called "free refills" today, while this was likely not the case when Coca Cola cost $0.05 (fountain drinks technology was not available at this time, and it was always sold in bottles), so when you pay "$2" at a restaurant you are really paying a total of $2 for as many Coca Colas as you drink while you are at the restaurant.

The value of 401k's is based on the investments in the account. It is the goal of these investments to beat inflation. In 1914 the Dow Jones Industrial average (DJIA) was at ~71 (for rounding we can call it 100), as of yesterday the DJIA closed at 16851.84 (call it 16,000 for rounding). This is a return of 160x verses 60x for your soda example (from 5 cents to $3 at a bar). 

This raises an interesting dilemma... When you assume it's free refills and they double charge you,
do you complain about the bill or let it slide?  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Problem with 401K is that it's not inflation proof.  Your Grandmother, presumably if she's old enough, likely remembers when she only paid $0.05 for a Coca Cola in a restaurant; whereas today, a Coca Cola costs up to $2 (if not $3 in a bar).  Coca Cola increased 40 to 60 times within generational memory.  The samething will happen to your 401K - it'll decrease in value by 20 to 60 times by the time you collect.


Pensions suffer the same issue too, I might add, unless you have an indexed pension like government workers.  The reality is most of us will probably die from starvation in our old age due to not having any money, unless we manage to keep a job somehow.  

That's the reality of inflation, folks.  Back in the age of prosperity, when currencies did not inflate to the moon, it wasn't uncommon for people to retire in their 50s.  It's a dystopian society if we are working people to death, especially when this is contrasted by all the Paris Hiltons and other capital owning parasites
The price of a soda varies very widely from restaurant to restaurant. The vast majority of restaurants also offer something called "free refills" today, while this was likely not the case when Coca Cola cost $0.05 (fountain drinks technology was not available at this time, and it was always sold in bottles), so when you pay "$2" at a restaurant you are really paying a total of $2 for as many Coca Colas as you drink while you are at the restaurant.

The value of 401k's is based on the investments in the account. It is the goal of these investments to beat inflation. In 1914 the Dow Jones Industrial average (DJIA) was at ~71 (for rounding we can call it 100), as of yesterday the DJIA closed at 16851.84 (call it 16,000 for rounding). This is a return of 160x verses 60x for your soda example (from 5 cents to $3 at a bar). 
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin
I'm not liquidating my retirement fund in favor of bit coin just yet, but as my purchasing power shrinks over time it might be something worth thinking about. It is just too new to put all of my eggs into one basket just yet.

If your purchasing power is shrinking you're doing it wrong. It has been the best stock market in the last 5 years and almost a challenge to not compound faster than inflation..
This will not continue to be the case as QE has influenced returns greatly. This would also not apply to you if you were to able to invest additional amounts into the market over the last 5 years (or large amounts as a percentage of your total portfolio). If you are decades into your career then you would hopefully have a substantial retirement fund saved as of 5 years ago, so the new money that you contribute will do well but the rest would not as a lot of the returns would simply be recovering the losses from the bear market
full member
Activity: 200
Merit: 100
I'm not liquidating my retirement fund in favor of bit coin just yet, but as my purchasing power shrinks over time it might be something worth thinking about. It is just too new to put all of my eggs into one basket just yet.

If your purchasing power is shrinking you're doing it wrong. It has been the best stock market in the last 5 years and almost a challenge to not compound faster than inflation..
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

you should hodl until $21,000,000 so you wouldn't have any regrets
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
Problem with 401K is that it's not inflation proof.  Your Grandmother, presumably if she's old enough, likely remembers when she only paid $0.05 for a Coca Cola in a restaurant; whereas today, a Coca Cola costs up to $2 (if not $3 in a bar).  Coca Cola increased 40 to 60 times within generational memory.  The samething will happen to your 401K - it'll decrease in value by 20 to 60 times by the time you collect.


Holy Sh*t.   Does that mean there are people who could have saved Coca Cola in bottles when they purchased them in the 50s and can now sell them for 4000% profit?  Where are these early adopter soft drink mavens?  They found the secret to beating inflation.

Inflation is certainly a problem, but comparing the last 50 years with the next is not meaningful economics.
member
Activity: 119
Merit: 10
But, collectively, we do have the power to make it less so.

Don't count on me for anything. You and your ideas sound like a complete nut job and bullshit.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU
This chart is depressing.
Sorry about that. Reality is depressing. But, collectively, we do have the power to make it less so.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1014
In Satoshi I Trust
I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

 Grin thats a plan!
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
lol... I miss the calculation .. I suck at math really.. xD

By the time you make that much, you will be hiring people to do that for you.
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
lol... I miss the calculation .. I suck at math really.. xD
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Wow, need a math lesson much?   Grin

The correct answer is 99900% profit

Cost = 145
Sold for = 145000
Profit = Sold for - Cost = 144855
Profit % = Profit / Cost * 100 = 99900%
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

That 1000% profit!  Grin

No, that will be a 100.000% proffit.

1000% will be selling at 1450 $
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

That 1000% profit!  Grin


No, that's 1000x profit, or 100,000%.

To be exact, 99000%


Touché ..right..100,000% roi I guess you could say
donator
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1012
401K's usually have a company matching contribution. Sometimes the company match is 100% of what you put in. In these cases it usually pays to maintain a 401K while you are working just for the free money. When you leave the company, you could cash out, pay the taxes/penalties, and buy BTC with what is left. Or roll everything over into a self-directed IRA.
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
I'm not liquidating my retirement fund in favor of bit coin just yet, but as my purchasing power shrinks over time it might be something worth thinking about. It is just too new to put all of my eggs into one basket just yet.

You never want to put all your eggs in the same basket anyway. Diversifying is not just a healthy strategy, it should be obligatory.

Bitcoin has many advantages, but as I see it most of them are at the same time disadvantages too.

Less red tape? Less protection (such as it is) from the state too.
You can "invest" in "assets" directly and cut the middle man? Yes, but that broker or fund manager does or should actually do a lot of checking beforehand and is more educated in financial matters than 80-90% of people out there.
Etc.

My point being bitcoin is a world changer, and I see it as the precursor to a really neat online contract system, as well as a fast internet payment system (pay for digital goods or services quickly) or even a means to move a lot of value very quickly from one place to the other.

But replacing money? Being better than a state approved pension system? Not likely.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

That 1000% profit!  Grin


No, that's 1000x profit, or 100,000%.

To be exact, 99000%
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
As far as long term-retirement fund options go, I can't think of anything better than Bitcoin.

I am also saving my money in bitcoins! (And also other altcoins). For now I am not sory at all. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

That 1000% profit!  Grin


No, that's 1000x profit, or 100,000%.
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