Why Bitcoins is now same as paypal(and worst) - page 6.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: cellard on March 07, 2017, 03:17:48 PM

we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

if you believe eventually we will increase the blocksize, why don't we simply just increase the blocksize? Why do we necessarily need segwit? Because Adam Back says so?

cellard

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Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

Paypal is a centralized system that doesn't require massive proof of work and a decentralized network of nodes in order to validate your transactions. Bitcoin (onchain) will forever be more expensive and slower than a centralized system like Paypal.

Your mistake is, you are comparing 2 unrelated things and you thought bitcoin would always be like it was when nobody used it.

No amount of onchain scaling will ever amount to anything near mainstream adoption, we need LN. This does not mean 1MB should be kept forever, but we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

franky1

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Quote from: Slark on March 07, 2017, 02:40:28 PM

Quote from: franky1 on March 07, 2017, 01:25:00 PM

guys dont get excited about LN

LN feature: CLTV maturity = equivalent of 3-5 business delay in spending funds AFTER withdrawal from service
LN feature: CSV revokes = equivalent of second party chargeback AFTER withdrawal from service

Some regulators we can meet at crypto conferences believe bitcoin must simply change. That regulation is necessary to bring it in line with other payment systems.
I heard voices suggesting that we need to add identity information and chargeback to bitcoin transactions and make it possible to blacklist funds.

I obviously don't like the idea, as I think it is outright crossing the line, but we can't deny there is possibility for such 'dirty' move in the future.

in detroit.
when a drug dealer sells drugs. does that now make the grocery store liable for later selling a drug dealer a carton of milk because the drug dealer bought milk using drug related money.... simply because the grocery store didnt KYC every customer that buys groceries
Cheesy

regulations do not stop drugs or crimes. regulations just make governments life easier to grab free cash after a crime without having to do the investigation. by making private businesses do all the paperwork for them

savioroshan

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Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

What are you telling? who told you transactions less than 0.01 BTC not getting confirmed. Have you send any bitcoins less than that before?I think you havent. Thats why you are saying that . I always send 0.00100000 BTC to my another address for faucet payments. I havent come across unconfirmed transactions. Yeah , nowadays transactions are taking a longer time to get confirmed. Thats all.

yukiko

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Quote from: pedrog on March 07, 2017, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

Dude, what does Paypal has to do with this?

I never spent a cent in transaction fees with Paypal...

If you have ever bought anything with PayPal, then you have spent transaction fees. The merchant side pays the fee. And merchants certainly price that into the sale price of what was sold.

defconone

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The OP has a point. Bitcoin transactions are close to the fee of PayPal.

I send 1.5 btc whit a fee of 2 euro, and It got stuck in the chain, had to use this service to get it confirmed.

unamis76

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Funny thing here is that Bitcoin is still more useful as it allows you to store the funds yourself. But yes, I get OP's point... And here we go again with the scaling talk Wink

Quote from: Slark on March 07, 2017, 02:40:28 PM

I heard voices suggesting that we need to add identity information and chargeback to bitcoin transactions and make it possible to blacklist funds.

I obviously don't like the idea, as I think it is outright crossing the line, but we can't deny there is possibility for such 'dirty' move in the future.

Yes, there is a possibility for moves like this... Outside Bitcoin. Whatever you create that adds identity information or chargebacks to "Bitcoin" transactions won't be Bitcoin anymore.

Echye

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They are crearly different things that you can't even start to compare, starting from fees which on Paypal aren't high as you mention and you're wrong about low transactions not getting confirmed, they do, I've done micro transactions the last few weeks without problems except for some afternoons when unconfirmed transactions passed 100k

Slark

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Quote from: franky1 on March 07, 2017, 01:25:00 PM

guys dont get excited about LN

LN feature: CLTV maturity = equivalent of 3-5 business delay in spending funds AFTER withdrawal from service
LN feature: CSV revokes = equivalent of second party chargeback AFTER withdrawal from service

Some regulators we can meet at crypto conferences believe bitcoin must simply change. That regulation is necessary to bring it in line with other payment systems.
I heard voices suggesting that we need to add identity information and chargeback to bitcoin transactions and make it possible to blacklist funds.

I obviously don't like the idea, as I think it is outright crossing the line, but we can't deny there is possibility for such 'dirty' move in the future.

cramcram21

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★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

Bitcoin and Paypal are not the same so why would you even compare it,
And I don't even feel the delays that you are talking my friend sent me some btc and it appeared to be on my wallet in just a few minutes.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

Yep, until Bitcoin increases capacity, its utility is in the crapper.

Eventually, we will reach consensus,fork, or die.

One thing that will surely NOT happen is that Bitcoin
remains the dominant cryptocurrency in the long run
while offering only 3 TPS.

franky1

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guys dont get excited about LN

LN feature: CLTV maturity = equivalent of 3-5 business delay in spending funds AFTER withdrawal from service
LN feature: CSV revokes = equivalent of second party chargeback AFTER withdrawal from service

KuromaYoichi

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Quote from: nemgun on March 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM

Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

I don't agree with you, transactions are processed normally, i is normal to give priority to the highest fee payers, otherwise they wouldn't pay, and miners are happy because they earn more from these high fee TXs.
You are considering the situation from USD point, Bitcoin's price is over 1200$ for now.
I always pay 50K Satoshi for all my TXs, if i am in a hurry or i have move a large amount, then i pay around 100k Satoshi, sometimes more, it depends on the size of the TX.

What i want to say is that it is useless to complain about the fee, you decide of your fee, if it is forgoten by the nodes, then rebroadcast it, if you are in hurry, ask ViaBTC to push your TX.

Consider the situation in a BTC point, and you will see that the actual fees are marginal.

Of course they give the priority to the one who pay higher fee, the problem is the fee is getting higher and higher compared to paypal fee's and paypal confirm the transaction faster. Sooner or later this high fee will hold people back from using their bitcoin and just hold it for investment.

Slark

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Please stop comparing bitcoin to paypal, both are 2 fundamentally different concepts. Op why do you think transaction with less than 0.01 BTC can't be confirmed?
AFAIK amount of BTC you send has nothing to do with confirmation times, tx fee is only factor here. Current high bitcoin fees are not standard situation, hopefully it will be solved.
It is an unfortunate that high bitcoin price only magnifies impact of high fees...

nemgun

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Quote from: LittleBitFunny on March 07, 2017, 01:11:47 PM

Quote from: nemgun on March 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM

Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

I don't agree with you, transactions are processed normally, i is normal to give priority to the highest fee payers, otherwise they wouldn't pay, and miners are happy because they earn more from these high fee TXs.
You are considering the situation from USD point, Bitcoin's price is over 1200$ for now.
I always pay 50K Satoshi for all my TXs, if i am in a hurry or i have move a large amount, then i pay around 100k Satoshi, sometimes more, it depends on the size of the TX.

What i want to say is that it is useless to complain about the fee, you decide of your fee, if it is forgoten by the nodes, then rebroadcast it, if you are in hurry, ask ViaBTC to push your TX.

Consider the situation in a BTC point, and you will see that the actual fees are marginal.

Of course it's normal to give priority to those who pay the highest fees but that's just not the point. The cost of transactions has risen to ridiculous levels - you can pay a few hundred thousand satoshi and (in my case) it has still taken days to confirm. This is not okay for normal transactions. People just don't pay $10 for something and expect nearly half of it to be taken away from them for it to actually work, and transaction accelerators will never make it okay because all they do is cram a few transactions into the next block - the block is still pretty damn small.

I will keep using Bitcoin because I believe that this is a temporary problem and that it can be solved, but I don't appreciate attempts to ignore the severity of the problem. Bitcoin needs to be convenient if it's going to appeal to more people and spread as a currency.

I just hope that enough miners will implement SegWit soon because Bitcoin is on the verge of a whole new level and as soon as SegWit is approved we'll know that we're ready to make that step.

You can easily controle the amount of fees you pay.
I know that in the next release of bitcoin core, 0.14, they will enhance fees calculation and bring new tools to the code : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9914
Be patient, the developers are aware of that, and solutions are under study.

Sniper44

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even with higher fees, bitcoin is still much better than Paypal. bitcoin is still decentralized and i can use it anywhere i like to without any third party interference. and also there is no charge back scam if i am the receiver.

but the problems with fee are getting more serious and this will cause us not to be willing to use bitcoin anymore. and just hold it in cold storage for future to dump and use the fiat we gain!

LittleBitFunny

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The first decentralized crypto betting platform

Quote from: nemgun on March 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM

Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

I don't agree with you, transactions are processed normally, i is normal to give priority to the highest fee payers, otherwise they wouldn't pay, and miners are happy because they earn more from these high fee TXs.
You are considering the situation from USD point, Bitcoin's price is over 1200$ for now.
I always pay 50K Satoshi for all my TXs, if i am in a hurry or i have move a large amount, then i pay around 100k Satoshi, sometimes more, it depends on the size of the TX.

What i want to say is that it is useless to complain about the fee, you decide of your fee, if it is forgoten by the nodes, then rebroadcast it, if you are in hurry, ask ViaBTC to push your TX.

Consider the situation in a BTC point, and you will see that the actual fees are marginal.

Of course it's normal to give priority to those who pay the highest fees but that's just not the point. The cost of transactions has risen to ridiculous levels - you can pay a few hundred thousand satoshi and (in my case) it has still taken days to confirm. This is not okay for normal transactions. People just don't pay $10 for something and expect nearly half of it to be taken away from them for it to actually work, and transaction accelerators will never make it okay because all they do is cram a few transactions into the next block - the block is still pretty damn small.

I will keep using Bitcoin because I believe that this is a temporary problem and that it can be solved, but I don't appreciate attempts to ignore the severity of the problem. Bitcoin needs to be convenient if it's going to appeal to more people and spread as a currency.

I just hope that enough miners will implement SegWit soon because Bitcoin is on the verge of a whole new level and as soon as SegWit is approved we'll know that we're ready to make that step.

nemgun

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Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

I don't agree with you, transactions are processed normally, i is normal to give priority to the highest fee payers, otherwise they wouldn't pay, and miners are happy because they earn more from these high fee TXs.
You are considering the situation from USD point, Bitcoin's price is over 1200$ for now.
I always pay 50K Satoshi for all my TXs, if i am in a hurry or i have move a large amount, then i pay around 100k Satoshi, sometimes more, it depends on the size of the TX.

What i want to say is that it is useless to complain about the fee, you decide of your fee, if it is forgoten by the nodes, then rebroadcast it, if you are in hurry, ask ViaBTC to push your TX.

Consider the situation in a BTC point, and you will see that the actual fees are marginal.

bitjoin

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Quote from: miningdude on March 07, 2017, 12:34:16 PM

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?

Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

Yeah its not the same as paypal for many reasons. BTW you can actually send fiat to friends and familty for free on paypal as long as you dont abuse the system.

romero121

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Nothing seems to be a big problem as well there is no need to make a comparison with PayPal. Everywhere there will be technical issues, same as that now bitcoin has encountered some technical issues for which we cannot say that developers don't have serious concern regarding it and we ourselves should not devaluate bitcoin.

Topic: Why Bitcoins is now same as paypal(and worst) - page 6. (Read 5212 times)