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Topic: Why Blockstream is against "contentious" hard forks - Control - page 4. (Read 3236 times)

legendary
Activity: 4270
Merit: 4534
Things ignored by this post:

Conservationism about coersively overriding the rules of the network is a widely held view, including almost the entire technical community (which blockstream engineers are only a small part of).

Concerns about hardforks and removal of blocksize limits stem back many years, long before the creation of blockstream. I was posting in 2011, for example.

Soft-forks were a mechanism put into place by Bitcoin's creator-- and used by him several times, never hardforks--, and he also also described the initial rules as largely set in stone when the system was launched.

At the end of the day, _no one_ has the authority to push a hardfork onto other people-- to do so would require overriding their wishes and changing the software on computers they personally own and control.  Bitcoin is specifically designed to not have that kind of authority.  People who think hardforks are easy, simple, or desirable have lost the plot.

^^ said by someone paid by blockstream ^^

softforks were not "put in place" by the bitcoins creator.. softforks are utilising a tweak that can be used to make them happen.
its like saying
gmaxwell: apple trees were put inplace to make applepie and cider..
everyone: no apple trees make apples.. its only afterwards that people realised they could tweak an apple to make cider.. but cider is no longer an apple

as for talking about the bitcoin creators intentions, satoshi actually envisioned increasing the blocksize limit

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15366
Quote
It can be phased in, like:

if (blocknumber > 115000)
    maxblocksize = largerlimit

It can start being in versions way ahead, so by the time it reaches that block number and goes into effect, the older versions that don't have it are already obsolete.

When we're near the cutoff block number, I can put an alert to old versions to make sure they know they have to upgrade.

its just a shame satoshi disappeared a couple months later before actually coding it in. because based on the blockheight. he envisioned the code to be included before that blockheight and activated as of about march 2011 as an example

at the end of the day, _no one_ (yes i used gmaxwells failed attempt to underline) should be allowed to prevent a hardfork and make it contentious.
its only contentious because blockstream/core say no.
staff
Activity: 4200
Merit: 8441
Things ignored by this post:

Conservationism about coersively overriding the rules of the network is a widely held view, including almost the entire technical community (which blockstream engineers are only a small part of).

Concerns about hardforks and removal of blocksize limits stem back many years, long before the creation of blockstream. I was posting in 2011, for example.

Soft-forks were a mechanism put into place by Bitcoin's creator-- and used by him several times, never hardforks--, and he also also described the initial rules as largely set in stone when the system was launched.

At the end of the day, _no one_ has the authority to push a hardfork onto other people-- to do so would require overriding their wishes and changing the software on computers they personally own and control.  Bitcoin is specifically designed to not have that kind of authority.  People who think hardforks are easy, simple, or desirable have lost the plot.
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1142
Ιntergalactic Conciliator
the reason for not fork to big blocks atm is completely technical. Every one that not understand this is simple not understand how bitcoin works. This is a fact. Everything else is a childish playground for morons... Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
Another thread by the big block Gavinista fan club... seems like after the initial FUD campaign didn't work out as planned it's time for another laughable attempt to discredit Core developers.

Do you remember the shiny diagram circulated months ago? It depicted an extrapolation of block filling with everything painted in alarming red, suggesting total network breakdown since the beginning of this year. Why are bigblockers not posting this original diagram again? Are they afraid of admitting being wrong?

I'm really happy that Core developers did not give up despite the FUD and hostility directed against them by the big-block ideologists. Core continues to innovate in the best possible way and the developers behind it have all my support.

ya.ya.yo!

you're an idiot.

Its still a problem and just getting worse.

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1024
Another thread by the big block Gavinista fan club... seems like after the initial FUD campaign didn't work out as planned it's time for another laughable attempt to discredit Core developers.

Do you remember the shiny diagram circulated months ago? It depicted an extrapolation of block filling with everything painted in alarming red, suggesting total network breakdown since the beginning of this year. Why are bigblockers not posting this original diagram again? Are they afraid of admitting being wrong?

I'm really happy that Core developers did not give up despite the FUD and hostility directed against them by the big-block ideologists. Core continues to innovate in the best possible way and the developers behind it have all my support.

ya.ya.yo!
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1004
Yep, and thanks to the level of FUD that has been employed by blockstream now every idiot on r/bitcoin thinks hard forks are somehow "dangerous" and "contentious", despite having no real understanding of the subject.

What a laughable state of affairs.

We have a bunch of greedy idiots who just want to maintain their control over the bitcoin protocol at all costs, who have now taken over bitcoin development.

Core has employed massive amounts of FUD, disinformation campaigns, smear campaigns, paid hundreds of thousands to DDoS nodes of competing implementations, censored all the main communication hubs and filled them with their trolls... and the list goes on.

You'd really have to be an idiot not to see what's happening here.


this is Bitcoin. where is the surprise? where "money" are involved, disinformation campaigns, smear campaigns appear. nothing new. the BTC gangs(cartels) are fighting each other in order to take the control  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 992
Merit: 1000
Yep, and thanks to the level of FUD that has been employed by blockstream now every idiot on r/bitcoin thinks hard forks are somehow "dangerous" and "contentious", despite having no real understanding of the subject.

What a laughable state of affairs.

We have a bunch of greedy idiots who just want to maintain their control over the bitcoin protocol at all costs, who have now taken over bitcoin development.

Core has employed massive amounts of FUD, disinformation campaigns, smear campaigns, paid hundreds of thousands to DDoS nodes of competing implementations, censored all the main communication hubs and filled them with their trolls... and the list goes on.

You'd really have to be an idiot not to see what's happening here.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
So the real reason why Core prefers soft-forks over hard-forks has now been revealed.

They don't want to lose control of "their" project to free market forces.

They want to be able to push through whatever change they want without anyone else being able to have a say in it.


 

I've been saying this for 6 months now. 

How sad that there hasn't been a blocksize increase yet.

legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 1451
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Why are you in support of them? Is bitcoin in such a dire situation that hardworking with a vastly developed fork is so urgently needed?
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
Just another day of fear, uncertainty and doubt. I'm not surprised by any of these statements as I've read a lot of more in that subreddit. Maybe you should try again with the next controversial HF, 'Bitcoin Coinbase' or something.  Cheesy
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 110
Quote
The owners of Blockstream are spending $75 million to do a "controlled demolition" of Bitcoin by manipulating the Core devs & the Chinese miners. This is cheap compared to the $ trillions spent on the wars on Iraq & Libya - who also defied the Fed / PetroDollar / BIS private central banking cartel.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/48vhn0/the_owners_of_blockstream_are_spending_75_million/
legendary
Activity: 992
Merit: 1000
So the real reason why Core prefers soft-forks over hard-forks has now been revealed.

They don't want to lose control of "their" project to free market forces.

They want to be able to push through whatever change they want without anyone else being able to have a say in it.



https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/43h4cq/they_coreblockstream_fear_a_hard_fork_will_remove/

Quote

    A primary benefit of running a full node is to gain full validation of all transactions.

    In the event of a hard fork that has activated the node is disconnected from the network and it is immediately obvious that no validation is taking place.

    When the same change is done with a soft fork the node is deceived into believing that it is validating transactions when it is not.

~ /u/tl121

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4mmfoh/segwit_is_not_2_mb/d3wtnmp

    Simple use case, by running a node I want to be sure that when I see transaction on the network I can be sure that it is properly signed with correct key.

    With introduction of segwit as a softfork all new type transactions (segwit) - will be ok for me, as I won't be able anymore to validate signature.

    This is what I call a zombie node.

~ /u/chakrop

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4mmfoh/segwit_is_not_2_mb/d3wqh6h

    "They [Core/Blockstream] fear a hard fork will remove them from their dominant position." ... "Hard forks are 'dangerous' because they put the market in charge, and the market might vote against '[the] experts' [at Core/Blockstream]" - /u/ForkiusMaximus

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/43h4cq/they_coreblockstream_fear_a_hard_fork_will_remove/

    The real reason why Core / Blockstream always favors soft-forks over hard-forks (even though hard-forks are actually safer because hard-forks are explicit) is because soft-forks allow the "incumbent" code to quietly remain incumbent forever (and in this case, the "incumbent" code is Core)

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4080mw/the_real_reason_why_core_blockstream_always/
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