It's called the blockchain trilemma. It's the reason why we haven't gotten any blockchain yet that has the perfect blend of decentralization, scalability and security. If there's one thing I've learnt in my time here on the forum and in crypto overall, it's the fact that something has to give.
You either get super fast chains like solana and sui and risk using a centralized chain.
For instance, most layer2s are powered by multi-sigs.
Topic: Why btc still slow and expensive ? (Read 781 times)
The PoW process is especially used in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. This process keeps the blockchain secure. In the PoW process, the decision-making power of the blockchain is divided among many miners, so it is not under the control of a single party. It is a completely decentralized system. No one can control it alone. But PoS can maintain the advantages of fast transactions and energy efficiency. However, this method can sometimes create the risk of centralization because in this method, large stake holders get more control over the network.
Any cryptocurrency has parameters such as security, decentralization and transaction speed.
In practice, only two of these parameters can be improved. Improving all three at the same time is impossible. No one can create a perfect cryptocurrency. It is impossible.
The value of Bitcoin is in its decentralization and security. Transaction speed is not that important. Bitcoin allows you to transfer large amounts of money over long distances. Bitcoin allows you to own and manage funds without the mediation of other people. Bitcoin allows you to conduct transactions without censorship....
Isn't that enough?
With Bitcoin, you will never face a situation where your funds are blocked by financial intermediaries. And in the modern financial system, such situations happen all the time.
In practice, only two of these parameters can be improved. Improving all three at the same time is impossible. No one can create a perfect cryptocurrency. It is impossible.
The value of Bitcoin is in its decentralization and security. Transaction speed is not that important. Bitcoin allows you to transfer large amounts of money over long distances. Bitcoin allows you to own and manage funds without the mediation of other people. Bitcoin allows you to conduct transactions without censorship....
Isn't that enough?
With Bitcoin, you will never face a situation where your funds are blocked by financial intermediaries. And in the modern financial system, such situations happen all the time.
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
Yeah, Bitcoin's speed and fees are a total bummer, right? It's like waiting in line at the DMV, but with way higher stakes! Tron's speed is definitely tempting, but remember, speed isn't everything. Think of it like a sports car versus a tank , one's flashy, the other's built to last and withstand a nuclear apocalypse, hopefully
Bitcoin's slowness comes from its security model and it's designed to be super secure, which means more verification steps. Improving that speed without compromising security is a HUGE challenge. So for me The whole miners thing is a valid concern. It's a bit like trusting your bank, but with a distributed system of heavily motivated people , so that is all I have to say
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
There was a time when Bitcoin was sent at an instant, the same goes for some of the altcoins out there like ETH and a couple of them. Even the fees in these times were relatively low, perhaps low in value as they didn’t worth much at the time but, most of us were yet to take up cryptocurrency investments so, we just didn’t get to experience it.Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
What does that mean?
It simply means, the more the currency and its Blockchain continues to offer solutions, exists longer and have projects built on them, the more it’s got a lot to do and the network is burdened with tasks. This has lead to several chains being developed such as the Tron project you now mention. It doesn’t mean it wouldn’t get slow or the fees wouldn’t see significant increase.
Bitcoin is slow and expensive it can be said at some point but it is actually not that expensive nowadays. This is because block signs in Bitcoin take a while to complete. Slower completion will make it more expensive up front.
When the price of Bitcoin was low, many people were still calling it a scam. Now that the price looks expensive, many are now seeing it as a potential project that could yield a lot of money for the big firms and companies. We should not always act like the ignorant ones because there are more to what we are seeing right now. The price could look somehow expensive now but what about in the future. Is the price going to depreciate drastically or continue to increase in price. If we can buy now and hold, we would know that nothing is too expensive. If the price is expensive now, we should expect the price to shoot up more in the next few years coming. hero member
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Because as far as I know Bitcoin transactions is always fast and reliable it doesn't take much time, so comparing it with others can make one to lose interest in Bitcoin.
Transaction on other network might be faster or could have low fee but Bitcoin is decentralized and Bitcoin has lot of transaction going on the network, so to get your transaction delivered fast, you will have to increase the transaction fee or if you also want a fast transaction, you could open your own node and start processing your transaction.
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You raise valid points about Bitcoin's transaction speed and fees. It's true that Tron, for example, offers faster transactions. However, Bitcoin's security and decentralization are its strengths. Think of it like this speed and low cost often come at the cost of security. Bitcoin prioritizes security, which is why it might be slower and more expensive sometimes.
The Lightning Network is a crucial tool for reducing transaction costs on Bitcoin. It allows for transactions outside the main Bitcoin blockchain, which significantly reduces fees and speeds up processing. This is definitely something to look into if you're concerned about costs.
Moving to Proof of Stake would fundamentally alter Bitcoin, and that's a complex change with its own set of trade offs. It's about weighing the benefits of speed and lower fees against Bitcoin's inherent security and decentralization. Many people value that security and trust.
Ultimately, the choice is yours. Consider your priorities and do your own research. Both Bitcoin and Tron, and other cryptocurrencies, have their own strengths and weaknesses.
If Op can understand this well, there might be a conclusion that he can draw based on the ongoing discussion and I see something valuable must be sacrificed at a higher cost because security is a step that does need to be considered before someone is involved in an investment or transaction that is taking place. You added a fairly accurate analogy and maybe a little easier to understand and a series of processes that occur should be an option when he wants to choose to do something based on the cost or level of security.The Lightning Network is a crucial tool for reducing transaction costs on Bitcoin. It allows for transactions outside the main Bitcoin blockchain, which significantly reduces fees and speeds up processing. This is definitely something to look into if you're concerned about costs.
Moving to Proof of Stake would fundamentally alter Bitcoin, and that's a complex change with its own set of trade offs. It's about weighing the benefits of speed and lower fees against Bitcoin's inherent security and decentralization. Many people value that security and trust.
Ultimately, the choice is yours. Consider your priorities and do your own research. Both Bitcoin and Tron, and other cryptocurrencies, have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Changing or switching to Proof of Stake will create a different side and that is not the purpose of bitcoin, then why debate the issue of transaction costs or security levels if bitcoin itself is considered a fairly valuable asset and the costs incurred to carry out transactions should not be a big problem. On the other hand, there are ways that can be used as steps to maximize the costs required when people understand the use of the Lightning Network as an option.
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
What really led you to open this thread this time, when fees are super low? Recommended fees for getting confirmation in the next block have been between 2-7 sat/vByte for last weeks or months.Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
Bitcoin doesn't need to move on POS to have instant transactions. Bitcoin needs to increase the block size and decrease the time that miners need to mine a block but keep in mind that this is a very serious change to the network, Bitcoin isn't ready for that and was never designed for that. If you want instant confirmations, you need to use other coins but keep in mind that it comes with the price, they are mostly centralized.
You can use Lighting Network, test it yourself, it's instant and cheap.
@OP, Bitcoin is not slow and the transaction fee is not also expensive, 3 days ago I did some Bitcoin transaction, the fee that was charged was $0.8 and didn't take more than 20 minutes to arrive. You can not compare Bitcoin transaction to that of other centralized altcoins whose daily transaction volume and value is not even half of Bitcoin daily transaction.
You are absolutely correct, that is the real truth about it because few days ago I also did some transactions on Bitcoin and the fee was just normal. So I don't see any reason why one would compared Bitcoin transaction with other cryptocurrencies.Because as far as I know Bitcoin transactions is always fast and reliable it doesn't take much time, so comparing it with others can make one to lose interest in Bitcoin.
And it will be more in $$$ if the price of BTC goes higher but that's okay, we're only looking at per sats/vB.
Why that's okay? most people judge the transactions fees in $ instead of BTC, that's why many people said it's expensive because they can use other chains which make them only pay $0.001 or less no matter how huge the coins they sent.We can't do anything with it and it's even going to be way above than what we're seeing right now in the future.
Say, Bitcoin reaches $500k and a 1 sat(0.00000001)/vB will be valued at $0.005/vB so, it's still less. And right now, we've got 2 sats/vB which is valued at $0.27. Correct me if my calculations are wrong.
The congestion of the network is always a factor to remember.
Bull cycles and the like of Runes and projects like it pump up the fees pretty high up there - but they then die down eventually.
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Your concern is genuine but I don't think there is a solution to this if Bitcoin should continue to maintain its decentralised nature. Bitcoin needs more compromise and scalability to attain higher speed and low fees, and also be integrable with other tokens and projects. But we should think of many issues that may arise, including security.Quote
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ?
Miners will vote for developers to work on it. This, I see as not preaching inclusivity. Every willing Bitcoin HODLer should be able to vote.Quote
And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
If Bitcoin moves from POW to POS, it's those big miners who will still dominate. They have the money and experience already. Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
If you don't intend to do that then simply invest all your wealth in Tron and that solves the problem as you wish. But maybe other people's views are different from yours that's why we believe more in bitcoin as a way to protect the financial value we have so we decide to invest it. If because of the high cost issue it becomes a problem that is getting bigger as you see it, maybe it is only right that your wealth increases, then how are you now?Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
How far can you ensure the security and how it works as expected for Tron in particular, while in bitcoin there is the option to use the Lightning Network and whether that is still an issue in terms of costs and transaction processes for you.
The Lightning Network is a crucial tool for reducing transaction costs on Bitcoin. It allows for transactions outside the main Bitcoin blockchain, which significantly reduces fees and speeds up processing. This is definitely something to look into if you're concerned about costs.
Moving to Proof of Stake would fundamentally alter Bitcoin, and that's a complex change with its own set of trade offs. It's about weighing the benefits of speed and lower fees against Bitcoin's inherent security and decentralization. Many people value that security and trust.
Ultimately, the choice is yours. Consider your priorities and do your own research. Both Bitcoin and Tron, and other cryptocurrencies, have their own strengths and weaknesses.
And it will be more in $$$ if the price of BTC goes higher but that's okay, we're only looking at per sats/vB.
Why that's okay? most people judge the transactions fees in $ instead of BTC, that's why many people said it's expensive because they can use other chains which make them only pay $0.001 or less no matter how huge the coins they sent.We can't do anything with it and it's even going to be way above than what we're seeing right now in the future.
Say, Bitcoin reaches $500k and a 1 sat(0.00000001)/vB will be valued at $0.005/vB so, it's still less. And right now, we've got 2 sats/vB which is valued at $0.27. Correct me if my calculations are wrong.
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I don't like Tron, the chain is expensive for TRC-20 tokens, it's only cheap for Tron. The supply is unlimited, this make Tron will be worthless and it's not good to hold it because the token can be manipulated by Justin Sun.
As I understand it, OP is complaining about expensive transactions and the level of security of the process that occurs in bitcoin but he missed something that can be used regarding the Lightning Network or cold wallets for asset security issues. Tron itself is not very safe to store and maybe as you said can be manipulated.And it will be more in $$$ if the price of BTC goes higher but that's okay, we're only looking at per sats/vB.
Why that's okay? most people judge the transactions fees in $ instead of BTC, that's why many people said it's expensive because they can use other chains which make them only pay $0.001 or less no matter how huge the coins they sent.
I don't like Tron, the chain is expensive for TRC-20 tokens, it's only cheap for Tron. The supply is unlimited, this make Tron will be worthless and it's not good to hold it because the token can be manipulated by Justin Sun.
And it will be more in $$$ if the price of BTC goes higher but that's okay, we're only looking at per sats/vB.
Why that's okay? most people judge the transactions fees in $ instead of BTC, that's why many people said it's expensive because they can use other chains which make them only pay $0.001 or less no matter how huge the coins they sent. Bitcoin is slow and expensive it can be said at some point but it is actually not that expensive nowadays. This is because block signs in Bitcoin take a while to complete. Slower completion will make it more expensive up front.
Always check mempool.space.The fees are not that much. We are getting 3 sats/vB for every transaction and that's the top priority and it only costs around $0.39 and that's quite high because the price of Bitcoin is above $90k.
And it will be more in $$$ if the price of BTC goes higher but that's okay, we're only looking at per sats/vB.
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
So in short you like a network which have a DPOS system where the Super Representatives will add the blocks and basically do the processing and they are only 27 correct me if I am wrong and they are elected by most votes while you don't like the network which is so decentralized that the miners can be many and none of them can do harm, like the spot is not limited. There are many limitations to TRX and you just can't compare it with BTC out of no where I don't like it you should also. But I still respect your ideology until you are not trying to shill TRX.Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
I don't like the founder of TRX as well. The fee is high due to congestion, and yesterday many whales bought and move their funds from here to there and that's why the congestion was there and hey it's bull run, this time of the cycle market suppose to be congested and the fee is normal to be high did you see the fee of ETH network?
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
You don't want to depend on miners? So who is going to mine Bitcoin and process transactions or you think validators of POS can mine and process Bitcoin transactions? They can't because Bitcoin remain Proof of work by design and by protocol. Just so you know, transitioning from proof of work to proof of stake doesn't make transaction faster, if it was I believe Ethereum network will be 10 times faster than the way it was in the proof of work.
If you eliminate miners and go to proof of stake, it doesn't change anything and Bitcoin supply is going to be tempered, you are going to be writing a new script for Bitcoin protocol because I don't know how you intend to mine the remaining Bitcoin that the miners will mine in order to provide security for Bitcoin network, don't forget that the network can easily be manipulated, you can't do that with proof of work mechanism because of the protocols that are fully embedded in it.
Why still haven't improved? Btc still slow and expensive to send transactions and for sure time like tron has you know that transaction allmost instant wich not the case with btc
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
Whos fixing that and what could be improved ? And when btc to POS so we don't depend of miners i don't think i want to or trust put my hard earned wealth in mercy of miners,well that's just me i like everything to be perfect and secure but ye btc slow still tron is way better
It doesn't seem slow and expensive if you mean the transactions. The fee per transaction for high priority is 3 sat/vB and the time difference between block 877235 to block 877236 which are the last two blocks I saw was only about 5 minutes and the fee is ~5 sat/vB.
BTC to PoS, is that true?
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