Topic: why can't bitcoin be based on something that has value? - page 4. (Read 1949 times)

You cant actually with Bitcoin, if you run the same software you will just connect to the same network with the same rules, if you change rules your instance will split into another altcoin into its new network, with no users and be worthless and not be Bitcoin anymore. Bitcoin is unique, even as a software.

Bitcoin is software. Gold is an element that cannot be created by man. It has to be mined. And obviously there is a limited supply of it available here on earth. Gold is a precious metal that has many applications and uses. Bitcoin is just software. You can copy software and rename it. You can't do that with gold.

Even gold isn't backed up by anything, right? 
So why do people trust it and want to pay with expensive value? Because people believe Gold is valuable. The main thing here is people's trust. It is the same as Bitcoin, it doesn't need to be backed up by something because people trust it. People believe Bitcoin is something valuable and useful for human life. In this matter, something like Gold and Bitcoin is acceptable although it is not guaranteed by anything.

The market is based on the purchase and sale of bitcoin and when the whales buy a value is generated, this has to do with the fact that there are 21 million BTC, this generates a deflationary economy, which allows it to be valued much more, then it makes no sense that it is backed by something else, it is decentralized, it is the best that can be had, for me it is the best investment of man in terms of the economic system.

gold sits on 2 markets.. commodities and assets.

the commodity features are the electronics and jewellery stuff it can create
the assets features are the underlying mining cost, scarcity equalling the store of value aspects

bitcoin fits the asset category. not the commodity category

atleast try to not confuse the two markets and their different features/utilities they are used for

..
yes some say that bitcoin is becoming more of a commodity(raw item that makes other items) due to the whole 'sidechain' tokenisation thing.
but bitcoin as just bitcoin was/has been more of the asset class.

yes bitcoin is not physical. so its not "tangible". but tangible is not a synonym of intrinsic. they mean totally different things

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lets take 3 other things..
a patent, a mortgage agreement, and a brand trademark

these 3 things do not have to be tangible themselves. (paper) they can be digital.
these 3 things do not have to be backed by tangible things
yes a mortgage agreement is backed by the collateral of the physical house.
but a patent is just a agreement, an idea. whereby it comes with the emotion that it permits the owner licence to do something or not do something where there is emotion that makes others fear being sued if they tresspass the idea, use the idea without the owners permission
a brand does not need to be physically stolen. (steal the contract put in a vault) it can be stolen via being used maliciously in slander or in copyright/counterfeit/phishing

these 3 things have value and can be traded electronically as they have value. all for different reasons.
its not all based on all having value based on something tangible.

EG a mortgage might have some intrinsic value based on the physical collateral. but most of the institutional derivatives trading of mortgage debt is based on the analysis of likelyhood of people defaulting/not paying. which is not about the house itself but about the emotional and cost/repayment risk of the person with debt. and how much some other institution values their own risk/reward to buy that debt at pennies on the dollar to pursue the debt.

when you start to look passed the narrow mind of "tangible" and seek out what other things are built into the underlying features of things of value. you might start to realise its not all about tangible, especially in the digital age where people can own digital property like a electronically signed patent/contract or a website brand

I'm sure everyone at some stage has come across the phrase "In God Code we Trust" That what Bitcoin is backed by.


That is the most basic backing of Bitcoin, its what it runs on.


and they are the benefits and features which Bitcoin provide.


The thing with manure is, we all produce it, sometimes twice per day,
and there is so much of in farming that it doesnt have any real value. 

On the Gold subject, do you have Gold in your back yard that you can just bend down
and pick up? can you run a simple program on your PC and get a Bitcoin in the first
10 minutes you try it? no! Gold is scarce, the same as all other precious metals....

and so is Bitcoin.

Hi maybe there is another person in here who talks the same as i do, do you think the Dollar right now backing by something that has value like gold  in fact, The U.S. dollar has lost 86% its value since 1971.

The inflation is creepy as f* imagine people saving from 90's and right now have lose its value. that is why we need something to fight againts the inflation

the goal is for transactions to be transparent. going back to the basics like fiat or gold or physical transactions will negate that aspect.
Bitcoin is backed by MATH and POW which the hashrate increased so much that if the power is converted to money is really huge. that's what backed BTC.

if you back something with manure then its a shit, maybe a community of farmers will find the manure useful for organic farming but its for the farming community not for all.

Exactly, I think everything depends on the stock and demand.
We are the ones who are naming the price of things or even currency on this world.
The market decides the price of everything based on the demand.

ever heard of commodities? manure is a commodity just like oil or natural gas. or hay. its tangible product that people will pay for.
ever heard of pork bellies?

Why would it be? That's the good approach and I like it.
I personally do not think that things that we have as "based on" are not really based on it neither.

Like gold is not just based on gold if you ask me, it is just the market decided to play with it, and wealthy people are playing with it, you could give them literally manure, and they will make a huge market out of manure and act as if it is something super valuable and buy and sell accordingly.

Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be something special, it just means that they could take anything, say it's "backed", and then do whatever they want with it and leverage it 100 times over to make money from it.

Likewise, everyone has a different concept of the market. Some believe in bitcoin and some don’t. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value or isn’t real. It is. You can get rich if you make the right investment plans. That is all it takes, study of the market and research.

Bitcoin is not a physical asset. Unlike gold, which we use.  But bitcoin is unique in its own way. It is a form of information. You can’t duplicate it. Moreover, if it were backed up by something, it would become centralised, which would defy its whole meaning and its existence.

First of all Bitcoin is really hard to understand, that is the reality when someone enters this kind of Digital currency industry.
Also, let’s just remember that Bitcoin will remain as long as there are big whale investors who believe in this crypto.
Now that these Investors are gone whether they are big or not, it just means that there is no chance for Bitcoin to survive
in this kind of industry in the Digital world.

it's not a stupid idea for a cryptocurrency to be backed up by a decentralized asset. that doesn't exist right now. but it's not a stupid idea.

But with that said, having bitcoin based on "nothing" and letting the market decide what it is worth does have a simplicity to it and so that is fine. that's how bitcoin is. any other way would be much more complicated. but as i said, i don't think the idea of a crytocurrency being backed up by a decentralized asset is a stupid idea. it just hasn't been done yet. that's because of its complexity.

so why don't we just agree that bitcoin should stay like it is but maybe someday a new class of coins will come along that are based on a decentralized asset. but its hard to know how because as i said, it's a much more complicated situation than just making something not have to depend on anything and be based on "nothing". the minute you try and base something on something else, if something bad happens to that something else then something bad happens to the thing that is baseing off of it. bitcoin, by virtue of being based off of "nothing" doesn't suffer if the us dollar goes to 0. or if the euro goes to 0. or anything.

This idea has been talked about and it is a stupid idea. We do not want it to be based on anything, we just want a free market that is not tied to anyone or anything and that's it. Is bitcoin decentralized? Yes, it is. Are we the only ones who can decide on the price? Yes we are, then it's fine. Sure, if some powerful people come out and say something good or bad about it, then the price could go up or down.

But the important thing is, we are the ones buying or selling based on that news, and we can decide to ignore it as well. There is a huge difference between influencing something, and controlling something. Bitcoin can be influenced, but not controlled. That's the power of bitcoin.

This is something that we can be I do know about cryptocurrency and you know in time coming beachcomb will be something everyone will value and people that is using it now will be the leaders because they have many currencies they used before Kashmir became the universal money for universal currency so in time coming Bitcoin will be generalized

Okay if we are talking about backings of various currencies or assets which currency do you think has a backing? All the fiats around the world have no backing except for the promise that the government is giving you and in situation such as wars etc. This promise is worth nothing at all. Talking about other asset such as gold as well all the demand it has is merely created by the hype or demand that everyone has for it and nothing else. Even if we talk about companies as well their backing is the revenues or earnings they do which too they are doing in fiat only so technically it's more or less the same. So which asset do you think really has any value?

I would even say more. It's more likely that something will be pegged to Bitcoin in the future as money was pegged to gold during the gold standard than Bitcoin have anything to be pegged to. As I already said before and explained, Bitcoin is the only and best sound money known to man kind! There's not much more to say about it!

Take this as a good criticism, I honestly think you should do more in finding knowledge about Bitcoin, from your post OP you don’t know the history of Bitcoin or even worse you don’t have an idea how it even works, the total amount of Bitcoin available to the world is 21 million, this was what the widely accepted creator of bitcoin Satoshi nakamoto created, and yes like most prices of goods and services it can be affected by demand and supply, it’s this simple.