why CBOE and CME futures trading may LOWER / SLOW the price of bitcoin. - page 2.

Coollikethat

newbie

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Quote from: European Central Bank on December 05, 2017, 11:18:44 AM

You can't move, sell, verify or store physical gold without a huge amount of hassle.

There's no point making this comparison.

They stuck a paper market on top of gold as otherwise there basically isn't one.

That's not the case with bitcoin.

Dude, CME and CBOE are implementing the exact same methodology as gold futures. The paper contracts are settled in cash. Next to no BTC is involved. Its a moot point.

European Central Bank

legendary

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You can't move, sell, verify or store physical gold without a huge amount of hassle.

There's no point making this comparison.

They stuck a paper market on top of gold as otherwise there basically isn't one.

That's not the case with bitcoin.

cellard

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Activity: 1372

Merit: 1252

Quote from: Coollikethat on December 04, 2017, 04:39:43 PM

These futures contracts are the same as Gold futures contracts. First, its all paper and settled in dollars not BTC. More importantly, if you look at the Gold Futures market there are more Gold contracts than gold available: 542 contracts to 1 ounce of gold. Shocked

The net effect is artificially keeping gold prices suppressed! If they overhaul that system and settle in real gold or mandate 1 contract per available ounce. gold price would skyrocket!

They are perpetrating the same scheme with BTC paper futures... the net result will like lower the institutional demand for BTC! Not the big upward pressure on price you would expect. Roll Eyes

Here's Why the Gold and Silver Futures Market Is Like a Rigged Casino...

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2016/05/16/silver-gold-futures-market-000868

People will not pay attention to prices that are obviously not based on real Bitcoin. Exchanges that remain pure to the real Bitcoin price and don't involve themselves in future will be the market makers, because anyone paying real BTC for the same prices as the manipulated future-market BTC prices is a total retard. If it's not backed up by the underlying asset then the resulting price is never a market maker. Basically it will have no influence on the price. Futures only guide prices when the underlying asset doesn't exist yet (the fork's futures for example). Gold is not BTC.

fabiorem

sr. member

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Quote from: alyssa85 on December 05, 2017, 10:00:36 AM

Quote from: fabiorem on December 05, 2017, 09:28:02 AM

The only way they can affect the price is if the hedge funds buy bitcoins themselves and dump it when gambling for low prices in futures. But then theres the whales, and most whales are holders, and some of them just hate the centralized financial system.

I'm pretty sure that they're accumulating bitcoins for that purpose. And the hedge funds are bigger than any bitcoin whale -they're bigger than the Winklevoss brothers.

How much time do you think it will take for them to just destroy it?

The community is not reacting to it, instead it rejoices on ATHs and is not paying attention to the fact we dont have any correction anymore.

alyssa85

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Quote from: fabiorem on December 05, 2017, 09:28:02 AM

The only way they can affect the price is if the hedge funds buy bitcoins themselves and dump it when gambling for low prices in futures. But then theres the whales, and most whales are holders, and some of them just hate the centralized financial system.

I'm pretty sure that they're accumulating bitcoins for that purpose. And the hedge funds are bigger than any bitcoin whale -they're bigger than the Winklevoss brothers.

fabiorem

sr. member

Activity: 1400

Merit: 347

Quote

The mint certificates, the ETFs, and the coins in an investor’s safe – all of them – are valued, at least in large part, based on the most recent trade in the nearest delivery month on a futures exchange such as the COMEX. These “spot” prices are the ones scrolling across the bottom of your CNBC screen.

CNBC screen, not your bitcoin exchange screen.

This will only affect the price if they incorporate all bitcoin exchanges in their casinos.

Every country that have a (physical) gold exchange have it annexed and controlled by its stock exchange, which in turn is controlled by the State and hence is centralized. From there they have ETFs and futures.

Gold is not a decentralized trading system as bitcoin is, that is the reason why the price is always kept down. You dont have a independent gold exchange, as we have with bitcoin.

The only way they can affect the price is if the hedge funds buy bitcoins themselves and dump it when gambling for low prices in futures. But then theres the whales, and most whales are holders, and some of them just hate the centralized financial system.

hase0278

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 544

Quote from: davis196 on December 05, 2017, 03:15:39 AM

The only thing that will suppress the bitcoin price is the fact that the big institutional investors will buy btc futures,instead of buying bitcoins.This demand won`t help for increasing the bitcoin price.
I can`t agree completely with your theory about the futures contracts.I think that futures and all the other derivatives are like market gambling.One player bets for a higher asset price is the future,the other player bets for a lower price.It doesn`t matter that the futures contracts are more than the bitcoin mined.
It`s just gambling.

That being said, it will still hinder the progress of the rise of bitcoin. It will surely make a lot of fiat to go towards it that is owned not just by big institutional investors but it will also attract whales as well but it will only be temporary. I like normal gambling on btc gambling sites more though rather than bet with CME futures though. Considering it's effects in the long run, I think it won't be that massive as it will only temporarily draw away investors from btc.

davis196

hero member

Activity: 2968

Merit: 913

Quote from: Coollikethat on December 04, 2017, 04:39:43 PM

These futures contracts are the same as Gold futures contracts. First, its all paper and settled in dollars not BTC. More importantly, if you look at the Gold Futures market there are more Gold contracts than gold available: 542 contracts to 1 ounce of gold. Shocked

The net effect is artificially keeping gold prices suppressed! If they overhaul that system and settle in real gold or mandate 1 contract per available ounce. gold price would skyrocket!

They are perpetrating the same scheme with BTC paper futures... the net result will like lower the institutional demand for BTC! Not the big upward pressure on price you would expect. Roll Eyes

Here's Why the Gold and Silver Futures Market Is Like a Rigged Casino...

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2016/05/16/silver-gold-futures-market-000868

The only thing that will suppress the bitcoin price is the fact that the big institutional investors will buy btc futures,instead of buying bitcoins.This demand won`t help for increasing the bitcoin price.
I can`t agree completely with your theory about the futures contracts.I think that futures and all the other derivatives are like market gambling.One player bets for a higher asset price is the future,the other player bets for a lower price.It doesn`t matter that the futures contracts are more than the bitcoin mined.
It`s just gambling.

Coollikethat

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

These futures contracts are the same as Gold futures contracts. First, its all paper and settled in dollars not BTC. More importantly, if you look at the Gold Futures market there are more Gold contracts than gold available: 542 contracts to 1 ounce of gold. Shocked

The net effect is artificially keeping gold prices suppressed! If they overhaul that system and settle in real gold or mandate 1 contract per available ounce. gold price would skyrocket!

They are perpetrating the same scheme with BTC paper futures... the net result will like lower the institutional demand for BTC! Not the big upward pressure on price you would expect. Roll Eyes

Here's Why the Gold and Silver Futures Market Is Like a Rigged Casino...

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2016/05/16/silver-gold-futures-market-000868

Topic: why CBOE and CME futures trading may LOWER / SLOW the price of bitcoin. - page 2. (Read 860 times)