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Topic: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)? - page 2. (Read 10349 times)

EhVedadoOAnonimato
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 05:16:13 PM
#41
Quote from: grue on January 20, 2012, 01:34:15 PM
having to remember/transfer super long addresses is not broken Roll Eyes

This is definitely "not broken". I really don't find this a problem, at all. And for those crying about the sender having to pay to include the larger transactions, come on, I bet you can include transactions to multi-sig addresses paying an irrelevant fee. And probably the only reason they wouldn't be included for free is due to the standard fee policy.*

I'm not saying BIP 16/17 are not interesting. Only that there's no reason to rush or stress over it.

You people are really "making a storm in a glass of water".

* There you go, an example of something I find more important than these BIPs: removing the standard fee policy. This would need anti-spam protection. I remember some development was on the way concerning this, but I don't know if it's finished...
2112
legendary
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:52:31 PM
#40
Quote from: Red Emerald on January 20, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 04:21:42 PM
no but i don't have to. if people can't handle it themselves, they should pay for it. but if they can't handle money securely they should starve to dead.
EDIT: or pay for insurance
sigh...
There aren't any more entertaining subspecies of Homo Sapiens than the Scandinavian kooks.

Kokjo is from Denmark and he advocates starvation for those who can't properly operate the computer.

Pentti Linkola is from Finland and he advocates using nuclear weapons to solve the problem of overpopulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentti_Linkola



http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/06/in-praise-of-pentti-linkola/

I think we should all welcome our Scandinavian overlords, before it is too late!
Red Emerald
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
#39
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 04:21:42 PM
Quote from: ?? on ??
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
Quote from: grue on January 20, 2012, 04:05:47 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
oh boy, more of "I NEVER SAW THIS THEREFORE IT NEVER HAPPENS". Roll Eyes there's a lot of things people should do. but do everyone do it? no. not everyone is a pro when it comes to computers, and people are especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. what's so bad about adding an extra layer of security? This isn't your project. if you don't like this change, you're free to start your own fork. the source code in on github.
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
not sure if serious. then i read the text below your avatar. now you're on my ignore list
evolution will eliminate week species. computer retards -> week species.

Dude. Can you change a transmission? Can you build a house? Can you perform open heart surgery? Some people are better at some shit than other shit. You are being ridiculous.
no but i don't have to. if people can't handle it themselves, they should pay for it. but if they can't handle money securely they should starve to dead.
EDIT: or pay for insurance
sigh...
kokjo
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:21:42 PM
#38
Quote from: ?? on ??
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
Quote from: grue on January 20, 2012, 04:05:47 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
oh boy, more of "I NEVER SAW THIS THEREFORE IT NEVER HAPPENS". Roll Eyes there's a lot of things people should do. but do everyone do it? no. not everyone is a pro when it comes to computers, and people are especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. what's so bad about adding an extra layer of security? This isn't your project. if you don't like this change, you're free to start your own fork. the source code in on github.
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
not sure if serious. then i read the text below your avatar. now you're on my ignore list
evolution will eliminate week species. computer retards -> week species.

Dude. Can you change a transmission? Can you build a house? Can you perform open heart surgery? Some people are better at some shit than other shit. You are being ridiculous.
no but i don't have to. if people can't handle it themselves, they should pay for it. but if they can't handle money securely they should starve to dead.
EDIT: or pay for insurance
kokjo
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
#37
Quote from: ?? on ??
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 04:15:06 PM
Quote from: ?? on ??
What do you think it's going to break exactly? What is your concern?
protocol upgrade, any old client would do funky stuff, which is not good.

You are afraid of change? What if a bug is found tomorrow in the old client and we need a change. Maybe our ability to change it what will save the block chain in the future. Practice makes perfect.

I'm nervous about change too, but we shouldn't be afraid of it. Test it well, and be prepared for the worst case scenario.
im not afraid of change. if it was to fix a bug, it would be understandable.
but to introduce more flaws and bugs, to fix a problem that does not exists, is not acceptable
kokjo
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:16:04 PM
#36
Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on January 20, 2012, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
Then don't use it.  Nobody is asking you to.
true. but you are trying to force a protocol upgrade down over my head.
kokjo
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:15:06 PM
#35
Quote from: ?? on ??
What do you think it's going to break exactly? What is your concern?
protocol upgrade, any old client would do funky stuff, which is not good.
DiThi
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:12:44 PM
#34
I have a question for you: Do you want Bitcoin to be successful?

If the answer is yes, we need more people to use it securely. Learn from the problems of the last year, where each security breach meant a drop in the price and the users. You blame people, but people blame Bitcoin itself, making imposible to Bitcoin to ever be popular.
kokjo
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
#33
Quote from: grue on January 20, 2012, 04:05:47 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
oh boy, more of "I NEVER SAW THIS THEREFORE IT NEVER HAPPENS". Roll Eyes there's a lot of things people should do. but do everyone do it? no. not everyone is a pro when it comes to computers, and people are especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. what's so bad about adding an extra layer of security? This isn't your project. if you don't like this change, you're free to start your own fork. the source code in on github.
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
not sure if serious. then i read the text below your avatar. now you're on my ignore list
evolution will eliminate week species. computer retards -> week species.
kokjo
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Merit: 1000
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:06:59 PM
#32
Quote from: Luke-Jr on January 20, 2012, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
So if someone ever gets a virus even once, they should be financially ruined for life?
yes. or they should have divide their bitcoins, or put them on paper wallets.
grue
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:05:47 PM
#31
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
oh boy, more of "I NEVER SAW THIS THEREFORE IT NEVER HAPPENS". Roll Eyes there's a lot of things people should do. but do everyone do it? no. not everyone is a pro when it comes to computers, and people are especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. what's so bad about adding an extra layer of security? This isn't your project. if you don't like this change, you're free to start your own fork. the source code in on github.
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
not sure if serious. then i read the text below your avatar. now you're on my ignore list
Luke-Jr
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Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 04:04:07 PM
#30
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
So if someone ever gets a virus even once, they should be financially ruined for life?
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:55:49 PM
#29
Quote from: Red Emerald on January 20, 2012, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: DiThi on January 20, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
Let's put it clear for everyone then:

PIP 11: It's already in the protocol but we need support from everyone (GUIs, webpages) to arbitrary-sized addresses sich as this one: 1TM1TTodZRiGNY23hgEW4QLroBW5By2gF1FQBwst7BEGPvS3gVh6PuqF5yNPtLFFFy71NzC2bZEX7mU jMJAb8wh6tPVpQeMCcu68F

PIP 16/17: They're too similar the more I read them. It requires protocol changes but they will allow to have regular-sized addresses which redeems the money with several signatures instead of a single one. It also allows much more complex transactions while the address stays the same size. It allows space savings in the block chain.

We can have escrow right now with PIP 11 (it just needs GUI support), but not secure multisig-by-default wallets, as DeathAndTaxes says.
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
the only real world use of multisigs is escrows, for which there is no need for small good looking addresses.

this is just plain stupidity!
Real banks do this.  When you try to send funds, your phone gets a text and then you have to validate it from the phone. This isn't stupid at all.  It means that an attacker has to control both your computer and phone which is way harder for them to do.
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
kokjo
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Activity: 1050
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
#28
Quote from: grue on January 20, 2012, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
the only real world use of multisigs is escrows, for which there is no need for small good looking addresses.

this is just plain stupidity!
how about you show some respect to the people on this forum, instead of acting arrogant and asking everyone to spoon-feed everything to you.
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
Red Emerald
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Activity: 742
Merit: 500
Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:47:58 PM
#27
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: DiThi on January 20, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
Let's put it clear for everyone then:

PIP 11: It's already in the protocol but we need support from everyone (GUIs, webpages) to arbitrary-sized addresses sich as this one: 1TM1TTodZRiGNY23hgEW4QLroBW5By2gF1FQBwst7BEGPvS3gVh6PuqF5yNPtLFFFy71NzC2bZEX7mU jMJAb8wh6tPVpQeMCcu68F

PIP 16/17: They're too similar the more I read them. It requires protocol changes but they will allow to have regular-sized addresses which redeems the money with several signatures instead of a single one. It also allows much more complex transactions while the address stays the same size. It allows space savings in the block chain.

We can have escrow right now with PIP 11 (it just needs GUI support), but not secure multisig-by-default wallets, as DeathAndTaxes says.
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
the only real world use of multisigs is escrows, for which there is no need for small good looking addresses.

this is just plain stupidity!
Real banks do this.  When you try to send funds, your phone gets a text and then you have to validate it from the phone. This isn't stupid at all.  It means that an attacker has to control both your computer and phone which is way harder for them to do.
grue
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:45:21 PM
#26
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
the only real world use of multisigs is escrows, for which there is no need for small good looking addresses.

this is just plain stupidity!
how about you show some respect to the people on this forum, instead of acting arrogant and asking everyone to spoon-feed everything to you.
DiThi
full member
Activity: 156
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Firstbits: 1dithi
Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:44:38 PM
#25
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
the only real world use of multisigs is escrows, for which there is no need for small good looking addresses.

this is just plain stupidity!

Companies with bank accounts where 2 responsibles are required for high volume transactions are stupid. Yeah...
Your wallet already stores several keys and generates new ones from time to time, even if you don't see them in your input addresses.

Quote from: Luke-Jr on January 20, 2012, 03:40:41 PM
The concept is that you have to approve transactions on both your PC and phone, so a virus on one of them doesn't steal your money.

Exactly. Bitcoin will be valuable to everyone only when this is possible. Not everybody can make sure all the time their computers aren't compromised.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis
Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:43:22 PM
#24
Quote from: kokjo on January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!

Then don't use it.  Nobody is asking you to.

Your rant is like saying:
Why does google/mtgox/openID use multi-factor authentication?  More keys to keep secret is just stupid.
Why is it possible to create SSL cert which requires two (or more( signatures? More keys to keep secret is just stupid.
Why does launching a US ICBM with nuclear payload require two keys? More keys to keep secret is just stupid.
Why does it require my key and bank's key to open my safety deposit box? More keys to keep secret is just stupid.
Luke-Jr
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:40:41 PM
#23
The concept is that you have to approve transactions on both your PC and phone, so a virus on one of them doesn't steal your money.
kokjo
legendary
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Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?
January 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
#22
Quote from: DiThi on January 20, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
Let's put it clear for everyone then:

PIP 11: It's already in the protocol but we need support from everyone (GUIs, webpages) to arbitrary-sized addresses sich as this one: 1TM1TTodZRiGNY23hgEW4QLroBW5By2gF1FQBwst7BEGPvS3gVh6PuqF5yNPtLFFFy71NzC2bZEX7mU jMJAb8wh6tPVpQeMCcu68F

PIP 16/17: They're too similar the more I read them. It requires protocol changes but they will allow to have regular-sized addresses which redeems the money with several signatures instead of a single one. It also allows much more complex transactions while the address stays the same size. It allows space savings in the block chain.

We can have escrow right now with PIP 11 (it just needs GUI support), but not secure multisig-by-default wallets, as DeathAndTaxes says.
why would i have multisig wallets? more keys to keep secret, is just stupid!
the only real world use of multisigs is escrows, for which there is no need for small good looking addresses.

this is just plain stupidity!
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