Topic: Why do we never get a topic on inflation in this section? (poll) (Read 1912 times)

Inflation means a somewhat different aspect, that of more coins appearing. Bitcoin suffers from POW-Inflation means that there isn't only more coins each day, but Market Cap loosing that same amount payable upfront to wall socket power suppliers in hard cash.

Market Cap: $ 5,407,695,423
Bitcoin        $ 4,841,874,395
---------------------------------------------------
all Alts together $565,821,028

that is 89.5% of the whole story pulled by Bitcoin allone.

"Crypto is going down" due to electricity costs for POW mining, which are on a ROI of ~10% for Miners easily calculateable. Let us just hope they experience a ROI, otherwise hashrate will inflate quickly.
    
Think of all the miners having to pay 90% for electricity & production hardware, today that was $ 1,156,680 or 0.02% a day. Summs up over the year but stays in total nearby 7%
(if they have to pay 110% and are mining on a loss, figures get worser)
    
So why do we have had that $ 315 all-year-low for 1 BTC ?!

There are two effects, the first technical one is POW-Inflation so bleeding money to electricity companys, but the even bigger must be a lack of interest by Joe Average out there. Market adaption does not happen. POS could trigger that interest of Joe, but the total percentage % of POS on Total Market Cap is currently negligible.
    

uno is a pretty nice pow coin with main feature very low inflation but still good network (mined at 1 million difficulty and around 25Th/s)  thanks to asic friendly.

Very much underrated. Bitcoins bleeding is annoying.

Less inflation also leads to less volatility. Inflation should always be kept to an absolute minimum to not cause volatility and to preserve the value.

Not all POS have inflation. Nxt had 1 billion coins at genesis and this doesn't increase. Nxt has no inflation.

Block rewards are just the transaction fees in the block (like Bitcoin and Peercoin will be once they have completed their POW phases) and no new coins minted from thin air.

I'm right there with you.

Problem is, we're dealing with terms that are hardly defined.

Examples: Social Contract, Cryptocurrency inflation, Cryptocurrency emission.

The technology has advanced quite a bit in the last few years, but these types of terms are hardly light subjects.

We've effectively created new morals and guidelines, with technology that's not even a decade.

For the most part, people say that these guidelines need to be followed, and so many of them absolutely refuse to debate them even further.

For example, why is there not a valid voting method in place that can effectively change these terms over a certain amount of time? These aren't commandments given to us as some mandate from heaven, they're bylaws created by ourselves for ourselves. To not even acknowledge that is inane.

We have proof of work, and that's a pretty reasonable vote, but even that is hardly a feudal vote that represents people's wishes. It's okay, and definitely a good way to start with small clusters of people, but look at the damn state it's in now. Entire warehouses filled with graphics cards sitting there breaking little more than passwords. Damn joke in its current state. It needs fixed.

I mean, even my apartment lease contract, insurance contracts, and terms of usage for software change yearly, sometimes even on a monthly basis. It's hardly regulation from a group of elected officials. This is the terms set forth that reflect often reasonable co-existence of user and provider that need to be maintained because time passes and nobody's Jesus and there will be problems that cannot be seen beforehand.

But with cryptocurrencies, we have tried to create a system of only users, with a goal of ultimate decentralization, and then with these five year old commandments from some unknown long since estranged godlike figure we tell people that these rules are undeniable, and any permutation of them is an abhorrent abuse toward the creator that will surely damn us all to hell. See where I'm going here?

We've provided ourselves an effective means of prototyping a cryptocurrency, but no such means of actually maintaining it after implementation. I think this is crazy because all this causes is new coins on top of new coins. I mean ffs if I couldn't change the tires on my car or give it an oil change, or a paint job, or an engine upgrade, change it over to use propane or ethanol then what would I do instead? I'd buy a new car.

We've effectively created a planned obsolescence for cryptocurrencies by not spending just as much time debating inflation, emission, and social contract as we have debating the technicality of the source code or whether we're gonna write a currency in cpp or golang. No fucken wonder we have so many - there's no way to fix them and there's no was to tell if it's broken. We've managed to make one of the most significant revolutions in value exchange, but refuse to admit that the three aforementioned terms are not part of the VIN. The VIN is the genesis block.

Sorry for the car reference, but I'm trying to break this down into easy to understand parts for myself.

We need to have valid maintenance tools. And I'm not talking about build tests, that's more of a NDT style of repair. We need voting mechanisms that can't be gamed, or we need Jesus. We need to have the idea persist that these currencies are for people, and the currency needs to be able to adapt in every way that the people change. The currency needs to serve both the demographic that is currently using the currency, and the demographic that the currency aims to encompass. There won't be one single day in the future where every damn person on the planet wakes up and says: Hey fuck my money I'm gonna use nothing but my favorite cryptocurrency from now until the end of my time here.

No, maybe one or a few hundred a day will have that thought, on a very good day. The ability to scale with a permanently changing and adapting mindset needs to be implemented in these currencies, and PoW hardly cuts it, or any other type of consensus system I've seen here. If it did, then why do we have 400+ bitcoins and not one? Ruling out scams - there are totally legitimate reasons to have a different currency, and it's because both PoW and the 'impending doom' mindset given by anyone promoting sidechains just aren't enough.

Basically, I want a way to open a program that let's me provide one single vote on one single topic, in a way that doesn't compromise my identity to everyone, that can't be gamed such that someone with even twice as many resources as me cannot obtain 2 or even 2^2 more votes than me. I need a mechanism that presents these votes to me in a nondiscriminating way that cannot also be gamed to give me infinite choices to vote on.

We have nothing of this sort, and as such every damn argument is permanently circuitous, and nothing gets done.

I need a program that realizes I'm a damn idiot that might have spent maybe ten seconds thinking about what I'm gonna vote for, and that's okay, so that even though I might not make the right choice, I have the ability to make a choice at a given date within a certain timeframe, so that time can pass and we don't run in circles for years. Then, when it does or doesn't work out, I need it to do it again.

Then, let the markets and everything else decide if it's the right decision. Why is that so hard to provide?

Add: Consider that the last majorly successful refusal of the king's rule and gold started with a declaration of rights and constitution, and the framework necessary to back those claims up for at least 200 years .. until it got a little derailed. Now consider that your source code is the framework, but there's no file in there stating in plain english what you want to follow and what you believe. Then consider that many of these heaps of source code are accompained by a white paper describing technical details and occasionally brushing on plain english. I don't want just a white paper, I want a constitution aimed at uniting people based on a logical location on a network, instead of a geographical location on a planet. Two or three lines detailing emission, inflation, PoW and codebase just don't quite compare to "We the people ...".

bump it once more for a few more votes.

My personal 2 cents on pos:
i look at the interest that is paid out to holders as the inflationrate of course. So saying pos has no inflation is not correct either because the number of coins increases constantly. 

I was surprised to see that apparently changing the mining subsidy in bitcoin is not completely ruled out, as long as the number of coins is not changed. According to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes this can be done with a notice period and sufficient miner support. (At least according to the authors of that page -- not all would necessarily agree.)

I see some logic in that, after all if you keep the number of coins constant then more inflation now must carry with it the prospect of less inflation later. This is self-limiting and self-adjusting over a long enough period at least.

So maybe if there is a good enough reason, just go ahead and change it?

I'm curious what people also think about changing emission to control inflation after the coin has been launched.

Say, you think your initial emission is coming out too slow. Is it okay to just up and change that?

Or, you think your initial emission is coming out too fast. What then?

What about tweaks to a pre-settled on 5% yearly inflation? What if someone wants to change it every year or two, to better match whatever came up in the last two years?

That doesn't constitute proof that anyone has 250k btc...sigh. If you think I lied or am wrong then provide proof instead of saying "my thinking isn't there yet".

Also, you haven't replied regarding my points to POS. Or should I wait for you to catch up because "your thinking isnt there yet"?

EDIT: I also just looked at your trust section, why was I wasting my time LOL. For some reason I thought you we're a respectable person, now im REALLY out.

If you are talking about the increase of the money supply by mining, minting, or any other means, it has very little effect on most coins. If you are talking about economic inflation, it doesn't exist in most coins due to the inability to use most coins to purchase goods and services.

Note: Please notice that I said MOST coins, not ALL coins.

to answer the question in the title: Why do we never get a topic on inflation ?
That's why 
This and the thread gets off topic after 3 posts

You can insult me all you want, I wont even bother linking the wiki ad hominem page.

The fact that you think btc success is because of holding is enough to tell me that this conversation is over as you are beyond help.

 Also, lol about the richlist. yup if I has 500k btc i'd split it into 5 wallets for sure.

(was reading your next post and still laughing... why are you making this thread about for or against PoS ? )

But hey lets play... First of: any successful PoS coin ? Blackcoin may-be... how do you get BC ? From mining on a multipool  (or from the initial distribution through mining)
Any successfull real PoS only (without multipool): NO ! Why ? Because the coin is just sitting in the wallet of a few user not doing anything and since nothing happens to the coin... everybody just lose interest and the coin its value.

I was very interested in the PoS with free distribution at the beginning of the year ans was a supporter of Community Coin, but lets admit it didn't go anywhere. Bagholder just sit on their coin expecting it gains value (but since every bagholder do that... the coin doesn't gain any value... obviously  )

So you don't like miner, but the role of the miner is
1: to secure the network and being rewarded for doing it
2: to distribute the coin by selling it... (yeah yeah I understand that's what you don't like).
And actually depending how well the coin sell, how it gets hyped or else, it acquires a value which reflects its adoption by the (or a) community.

So how does get distributed a PoS coin only ? (Giveaway... well does not work) or IPO with only the dev coin deciding the value of the coin based absolutely on nothing except his own greed...

But I think this has absolutely nothing to do with inflation (since you can make PoS with n% inflation in the same way as in PoW)

Thats exactly the point.... if they're not selling the coins they just sit.. and stake .. and stake.

also about your next post ill just post this:
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100

im surprised a senior member is so ignorant.

and lol? you going to bring up big holders on bitcoin? Look at the btc coin distribution and market cap.

lots of 250k btc holders? get real. you do realize you can check the size of the largest wallets right?

What are you talking about? Holders are NOT mining they just hold. And you know what happens when they hold? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Holders get more coins, and you know what they do? THEY HOLD THEM.

 Miners might sell, sure, but they're USING it. In order to sell, they have to TRADE which creates VOLUME which is GOOD.

If you can't see the difference that mining vs staking has on a coin....

Great idea! fuck adoption, all we need are people hodling and posting about how great it is then we can dump after our 1500000% stake matures! Cool Dude!
/s

A low level of inflation is healthy, it's when you let it get out of hand that it becomes an issue. You need people to spend a coin in order for it to have any chance of success.

NOT POS

But why would you be rewarded for not using a currency ?
The point in any currency is that it can be used, traded against other things.
If your money is just stuck into your wallet forever it has no intrinsic value.
Hence if you want a currency which is valuable there must be enough of it so it can become a mean of exchange.

That's the whole contradiction of crypto... people don't want currencies they want stock options...

So you would accept that going from owning 1% of a coin today, then 0.9% in a year and ~0.5% in 5 years is good for long term value?

Inflation effects everyone at the same rate, it doesn't matter how much you hold.

don't care about the inflation.
In most of the case, it is just a FUD & Trolling arguments.
The only who really cares about it are early adopters and ICO/IPO/Crowdfunding who don't want others to get coin (except by buying from them) and would prefer if miner was keeping the network alive for free (which won't happen... so some coins have to be distributed... and a coin which isn't distributed misses, in my opinion, its purpose

But it has no impact on the success of a coin (Doge might be the best example...), MRC another, MRC only died when it became impossible to get coins through mining...  

(but yeah if I have a big bag of coins... I prefer too being the only one... so no inflation is good in that case   )

The same reason people don't talk about it in real life. People don't know what it is and it's effect on value, especially when conflated with the word 'interest'

1000 + 50 newly minted coins = I have more coins, must be better off. yippee.