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Topic: Why doesnt someone make a cash only exchange? - page 3. (Read 4804 times)

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
not a shop. im not talking about a store. im talking about something like mtgox or bitstamp. except inorder to avoid so many of the regulations they only take cash. since they would never touch the banking system in anyway i dont think they would even be under the jurisdiction of FINCEN and i dont think they would have to comply with AML regulations at all.

yeah a shop would be a regulation nightmare at this stage, until fincen or whoever decides what they want to do with bitcoin i guess a shop is not v practical.

Even if you have an online xchange that only takes cash, 1. where would people come to deposit cash ? like u meet them in the street and stuff ? , 2. Even if you have like a shop or office, end of the day the cash will go to your bank account (unless u put it under your pillow but that doesn't make sense) lot of cash inflow to your account will raise alarms and then before you know it swat is raiding your home trashing everything

the people who ran the exchange would work out of an office. that office would have a front desk with a cashier.

no bank account. just a very large very secure safe with cash in it. perhaps you could buy up a building that used to be a bank.

If there was an earthquake then a fire, they can embed a message in a transaction to themselves on the blockchain: “Building Destroyed, Vault Intact, Credit Unaffected.” Grin
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
not a shop. im not talking about a store. im talking about something like mtgox or bitstamp. except inorder to avoid so many of the regulations they only take cash. since they would never touch the banking system in anyway i dont think they would even be under the jurisdiction of FINCEN and i dont think they would have to comply with AML regulations at all.

yeah a shop would be a regulation nightmare at this stage, until fincen or whoever decides what they want to do with bitcoin i guess a shop is not v practical.

Even if you have an online xchange that only takes cash, 1. where would people come to deposit cash ? like u meet them in the street and stuff ? , 2. Even if you have like a shop or office, end of the day the cash will go to your bank account (unless u put it under your pillow but that doesn't make sense) lot of cash inflow to your account will raise alarms and then before you know it swat is raiding your home trashing everything

the people who ran the exchange would work out of an office. that office would have a front desk with a cashier.

no bank account. just a very large very secure safe with cash in it. perhaps you could buy up a building that used to be a bank.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.

So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash....

Trading and exchanging are two different things. In the US forex traders, the individuals, need to be registered with NFA, CFTC and the SEC. That would mean every Bitcoin user would need to register. Bitcoin would also need to be legally considered currency but currently it's not.

Well, bitcoin is either a currency or a commodity (I would say both). So if it is legally a currency, forex shops can buy and sell it to customers. If it is not, then forex shops can sell and refund it like a gift voucher, sales tax/VAT applies.

Of course, it could become a currency that is illegal to trade, or a contraband, but it is not yet.

It would be hard for me to believe we could come up with a loophole that the government couldn't close with a quick sweep of a pen.

I agree.

I just don't see how they can do it without making random persecutions or making random laws that have other serious repercussions, like making cryptography illegal, or banning bartering altogether, or requiring trading to be carried out strictly in legal tender, i.e. no more gift vouchers.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of bureaucrats.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 4738
diamond-handed zealot
They may have the power, but they lack the authority.  Our duty is to resist.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.

So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash....

Trading and exchanging are two different things. In the US forex traders, the individuals, need to be registered with NFA, CFTC and the SEC. That would mean every Bitcoin user would need to register. Bitcoin would also need to be legally considered currency but currently it's not.

Well, bitcoin is either a currency or a commodity (I would say both). So if it is legally a currency, forex shops can buy and sell it to customers. If it is not, then forex shops can sell and refund it like a gift voucher, sales tax/VAT applies.

Of course, it could become a currency that is illegal to trade, or a contraband, but it is not yet.

It would be hard for me to believe we could come up with a loophole that the government couldn't close with a quick sweep of a pen.

I agree.

I just don't see how they can do it without making random persecutions or making random laws that have other serious repercussions, like making cryptography illegal, or banning bartering altogether, or requiring trading to be carried out strictly in legal tender, i.e. no more gift vouchers.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.

So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash....

Trading and exchanging are two different things. In the US forex traders, the individuals, need to be registered with NFA, CFTC and the SEC. That would mean every Bitcoin user would need to register. Bitcoin would also need to be legally considered currency but currently it's not.

Well, bitcoin is either a currency or a commodity (I would say both). So if it is legally a currency, forex shops can buy and sell it to customers. If it is not, then forex shops can sell and refund it like a gift voucher, sales tax/VAT applies.

Of course, it could become a currency that is illegal to trade, or a contraband, but it is not yet.

It would be hard for me to believe we could come up with a loophole that the government couldn't close with a quick sweep of a pen.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.

So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash....

Trading and exchanging are two different things. In the US forex traders, the individuals, need to be registered with NFA, CFTC and the SEC. That would mean every Bitcoin user would need to register. Bitcoin would also need to be legally considered currency but currently it's not.

Well, bitcoin is either a currency or a commodity (I would say both). So if it is legally a currency, forex shops can buy and sell it to customers. If it is not, then forex shops can sell and refund it like a gift voucher, sales tax/VAT applies.

Of course, it could become a currency that is illegal to trade, or a contraband, but it is not yet.
full member
Activity: 218
Merit: 100
Because one shop would have  to spend bucketloads of money complying with anti-money laundering regulations. Bitcoin ATMs solve the problem in a much more economical way.

What makes you think that FinCEN is going to consider Bitcoin ATMs to be exempt from AML?  Believe me, they won't.  That's why it's been so hard to get them going.

But I agree that cash businesses also must comply with AML if they want to stay out of jail, BUT cash businesses don't have to put up with banks cutting them off at every turn.  And if we develop our own clearing houses....
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Also, most casinos sell chips for cash and pays cash for chips. (Where gambling is legal) If a casino offers to take bitcoins for chips and payouts in bitcoins on redeeming chips, then we have a way for fiat to enter and exit the cryptocurrencies market.

It doesn't have to be bitcoin they exchange for redeemed chips, it could be a casino alt-coin "for use on their online games", which could be exchanged for bitcoins on an online exchange.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.

So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash....

Trading and exchanging are two different things. In the US forex traders, the individuals, need to be registered with NFA, CFTC and the SEC. That would mean every Bitcoin user would need to register. Bitcoin would also need to be legally considered currency but currently it's not.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.

So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash....
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?

Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 251
Giga
not a shop. im not talking about a store. im talking about something like mtgox or bitstamp. except inorder to avoid so many of the regulations they only take cash. since they would never touch the banking system in anyway i dont think they would even be under the jurisdiction of FINCEN and i dont think they would have to comply with AML regulations at all.

yeah a shop would be a regulation nightmare at this stage, until fincen or whoever decides what they want to do with bitcoin i guess a shop is not v practical.

Even if you have an online xchange that only takes cash, 1. where would people come to deposit cash ? like u meet them in the street and stuff ? , 2. Even if you have like a shop or office, end of the day the cash will go to your bank account (unless u put it under your pillow but that doesn't make sense) lot of cash inflow to your account will raise alarms and then before you know it swat is raiding your home trashing everything
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
not a shop. im not talking about a store. im talking about something like mtgox or bitstamp. except inorder to avoid so many of the regulations they only take cash. since they would never touch the banking system in anyway i dont think they would even be under the jurisdiction of FINCEN and i dont think they would have to comply with AML regulations at all.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
The penalty for violating interstate banking and branching law is either not less than 20 years in prison a $10,000,000 fine or both. Interstate drug trafficking law is either not less than 10 years in prison a $250,000 fine or both. It would be less damaging to your future and your wallet if you just drove drugs between states for profit.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
3 days...till what exactly?

Till you'd have to explain to New York authorities what the purpose of the shop accepting all that cash was for. And all done without going through any proper channels to set up the business.

Give it a go, by all means.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 4738
diamond-handed zealot
3 days...till what exactly?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
December 19, 2013, 04:11:44 AM
#9
Opening up a bitcoin shop in New York??? Give it 3 days ........
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 4738
diamond-handed zealot
December 19, 2013, 04:08:49 AM
#8
Just interject a little tidbit here that might be relevant.

NoCal weed growers I know of say that getting the product to NY has not been much of a problem lately, but they have been taking crippling losses getting the cash back Westbound.

I like your idea, but I would be very wary about the actual shipments of fiat.

Lost me .... how is this relevant to a bitcoin shop?

from the OP "they would clear out the debt between each other, always operating within the black or gray market"

so the proposal is actually for a noncompliant exchange, a great idea IMO, but the fiat settlements would be vulnerable to seizure by the state, just as any other black market proceeds are, and I have it on good authority that the state has become rather adept at this seizure.
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