Why don't the exchanges get together and fork Ripple and use it. - page 2.

patmast3r

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Quote from: Sukrim on May 27, 2015, 04:50:27 AM

1) How would they pay for network fees (= who gets the forkXRPs)?
2) How would they ensure a healthy validator network structure?

These are the 2 main remaining questions for mainline Ripple too...

1) First of all in Ripple nobody get's the fees. XRPs are being destroyed not re-destributed. Second if the exchanges run their own "internal" network then they don't need to worry about fees because they controll all of the forkXRPs and can split them up evenly.

2) Each exchange runs 1 validator which trusts the other exchanges validators. done.

tokeweed

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Quote from: lockshop11 on May 27, 2015, 11:46:09 PM

Quote

It might be a good idea for some, if not all of them to get together, fork Ripple and form a gateway system for trading and transacting in a network that the exchanges themselves control.

Ripple and its whole system is controlled by the third party. Its price is volatile. Many ppl try to avoid involving in it.

I do not think you understand.

lockshop11

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Quote

It might be a good idea for some, if not all of them to get together, fork Ripple and form a gateway system for trading and transacting in a network that the exchanges themselves control.

Ripple and its whole system is controlled by the third party. Its price is volatile. Many ppl try to avoid involving in it.

Miracal

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They are running on diffferent locations and have specific regulations to be complied with. They have different security measures applied. How could they be possible to be integrated together? Even it is possible in some scenarios such as some big exchange acquires another exchange falling in difficulty. But it wouldn't chant that fact that they are still centralized exchange.

robrigo

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Quote from: marcetin on May 27, 2015, 08:11:15 PM

Quote from: robrigo on May 27, 2015, 07:03:45 PM

Exchanges can use BitShares DEX to issue their own IOUs and move their orderbooks onto the blockchain. They basically would become gateways using the decentralized exchange.

Interesting.
In that case they will all have the same orderbook? So the price some asset will be the same on all exchanges in the blockchain?

BitShares lets you trade 2 types of assets: user issued assets and market pegged assets. Each exchange could issue a user issued asset as an IOU for their assets (IOUs are basically what you have when you hold crypto on a centralized exchange) and trade against other exchange's IOUs or market pegged stablecoins like bitUSD, bitCNY, and bitGOLD. On BitShares you can trade any asset against any other asset... but not all of the markets are liquid.

So you might see coinbaseUSD, bitstampUSD, btceDOGE, etc. trading on bitshares. The cool thing about this is that each participant still controls the private keys to their balances, and they can also be sure that the orderbooks aren't being manipulated behind the scenes.

More reading:

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/update/2014/12/18/Benefits-of-Being-a-BitShares-Gateway/
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/05/The-Future-of-Crypto-Currency-Exchanges/
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/29/How-BitShares-Prevents-Front-Running/

marcetin

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Quote from: robrigo on May 27, 2015, 07:03:45 PM

Exchanges can use BitShares DEX to issue their own IOUs and move their orderbooks onto the blockchain. They basically would become gateways using the decentralized exchange.

Interesting.
In that case they will all have the same orderbook? So the price some asset will be the same on all exchanges in the blockchain?

robrigo

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Exchanges can use BitShares DEX to issue their own IOUs and move their orderbooks onto the blockchain. They basically would become gateways using the decentralized exchange.

tokeweed

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Still.. I personally would like to see the exchanges work together and build a network on their own. It has never been done before in crypto, where every exchange is connected in one network. And it's a waste that they're not using the technology (they could always fork it if they want)... Especially BTC focused exchanges, it would certainly help the Bitcoin blockchain by having off chain transactions an option. It could also possibly help solve scalability problems.

Sukrim

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Nice double-post...

Quote from: tokeweed on May 27, 2015, 09:41:38 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on May 27, 2015, 04:50:27 AM

1) How would they pay for network fees (= who gets the forkXRPs)?
2) How would they ensure a healthy validator network structure?

These are the 2 main remaining questions for mainline Ripple too...

Is running a Ripple-esque network not feasable if decentralization was the aim?

What about the new Stellar consensus protocol the SDF is working on?

Sure it is, they can just run mainline Ripple as easily though.

It only renames a few components (UNL = something something slice) and seems to be a nearly 1:1 copy of Ripple Consensus. It is nice that they expose the UNLs to the network but apparently these are not checked or used to verify trustworthyness anyways by other nodes, so all that is left is a more "bucket based" approach than with Ripple, which rather wants to approve sets of transactions in fixed maximum intervals instead of moving forward in all undisputed areas while waiting in disputed markets.

Quote from: tokeweed on May 27, 2015, 09:46:07 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on May 27, 2015, 09:36:43 AM

This would have no major impact if they were using Ripple (or a fork of it).

I don't see how the lack of an independent fork is the thing that keeps exchanges from using Ripple as is... mainline Ripple however might soon have more banks, Western Union etc. on its ledger, so an inter-exchange only Ripple fork might not be very popular to begin with (and not very resilient to legal pressure, depending on how it is run).

Probably because Ripple Labs controls most of the XRP. Ripple is great and all, that's why there could be more benefit for the exchanges themsleves to fork it and build their own Ripple-esque network and divide the fork-XRP among themselves to give away to their users.

edit: Imagine if (just if) Bitfinex, Bitstamp, BTCe, BTC China and all the others joined together and built their own Ripple-esque network. I think there's a good chance it will be very popular.

I wouldn't want to use a ledger run by Bitcoin exchanges exclusively, but then again who knows... apparently e.g. Bitfinex even uses Tether (which is more or less a gateway built on Counterparty built on Bitcoin). Inter-exchange fast path payments are a years old concept which was first commercialy tried by Charlie Shrem's company Bitinstant... well, it didn't end well to say the least.

Gateways don't need to care about XRP prices or distribution, for the price of a hamburger/coffee you can get enough XRP to run a gateway almost indefinitely from a current perspective.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Sukrim on May 27, 2015, 09:36:43 AM

This would have no major impact if they were using Ripple (or a fork of it).

I don't see how the lack of an independent fork is the thing that keeps exchanges from using Ripple as is... mainline Ripple however might soon have more banks, Western Union etc. on its ledger, so an inter-exchange only Ripple fork might not be very popular to begin with (and not very resilient to legal pressure, depending on how it is run).

Probably because Ripple Labs controls most of the XRP. Ripple is great and all, that's why there could be more benefit for the exchanges themsleves to fork it and build their own Ripple-esque network and divide the fork-XRP among themselves to give away to their users.

edit: Imagine if (just if) Bitfinex, Bitstamp, BTCe, BTC China and all the others joined together and built their own Ripple-esque network. I think there's a good chance it will be very popular.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Sukrim on May 27, 2015, 04:50:27 AM

1) How would they pay for network fees (= who gets the forkXRPs)?
2) How would they ensure a healthy validator network structure?

These are the 2 main remaining questions for mainline Ripple too...

Is running a Ripple-esque network not feasable if decentralization was the aim?

What about the new Stellar consensus protocol the SDF is working on?

Sukrim

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This would have no major impact if they were using Ripple (or a fork of it).

I don't see how the lack of an independent fork is the thing that keeps exchanges from using Ripple as is... mainline Ripple however might soon have more banks, Western Union etc. on its ledger, so an inter-exchange only Ripple fork might not be very popular to begin with (and not very resilient to legal pressure, depending on how it is run).

robbo389

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Most exchanges are competing with each other and probably wouldn't cooperate. What happens when exchanges go bad, like Mintpal?

Sukrim

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1) How would they pay for network fees (= who gets the forkXRPs)?
2) How would they ensure a healthy validator network structure?

These are the 2 main remaining questions for mainline Ripple too...

tokeweed

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The thing is to build a network that all the exchanges can participate in and have a degree of control if they do decide to participate. Transactions from one exchange to another would be way faster. I get that the exchanges are wary of being a gateway on Ripple. But if they get together, they could fork it and build their own system that they themselves control.

TaunSew

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Forgetting about all the investor's money into Ripple, which subsequently makes it a closed loop snowball effect. If you control 98%+ of the supply and have $millions of investors money, you can manipulate left, right and center until the cows come home (since volume in crypto is very small and most of it is ping-ponging among bots).

tokeweed

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Here's a list of all the exchanges http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/markets/info

It might be a good idea for some, if not all of them to get together, fork Ripple and form a gateway system for trading and transacting in a network that the exchanges themselves control.

It will make moving crypto/fiat a whole lot easier from exchange to exchange.

What do you guys think?

Topic: Why don't the exchanges get together and fork Ripple and use it. - page 2. (Read 1877 times)