Why exchanges constantly expose you to the risk of losing your capital.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 29, 2019, 03:17:17 PM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:41:18 AM

Does exchanges really don't know how to prevent their users from buying coins 100 times higher by market buy? If chart is that high means that someone bought that high and someone sold that high. That's crazy and so easy to prevent.

In order to prevent that you need market makers, and market makers don't work for free.

The New York Stock Exchange for example licences only a few market makers, who then have the exclusive right to make markets for the stocks listed on the NYSE. But in return they prevent the extreme pumps that you see on crypto exchanges.

Most crypto exchanges don't want to pay for having market makers, and occasionally they'll offer a maker/taker reduction in fees but it isn't enough to compensate the market maker for the risk. So they go without market makers.

Its only about price fixing. Just simply don't open trades at random price (finalizing order by order). Open them with fixed price calculated from all orders that are on market. That's it. Despite market makers on NYSE (and any other regulated stock exchange) you also have build in limitations that holds trades if volatility is too big and opens them when amount of supply and demand is balanced. But I'm not talking about that. That's important during regular trading. I'm talking about first trades after new coin listing.

Polar91

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Quote from: niteroy on April 12, 2019, 04:33:58 AM

I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

It's not only the team but also it's also because of early investors. As early investors don't see much future of their investment; they tend to sell as early as possible. Meanwhile, bounty hunters or any promoters that receive that token for reward, will get their tokens at longer time compare to investors thus they are not the major/main cause of devaluing of market.

alyssa85

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:41:18 AM

Does exchanges really don't know how to prevent their users from buying coins 100 times higher by market buy? If chart is that high means that someone bought that high and someone sold that high. That's crazy and so easy to prevent.

In order to prevent that you need market makers, and market makers don't work for free.

The New York Stock Exchange for example licences only a few market makers, who then have the exclusive right to make markets for the stocks listed on the NYSE. But in return they prevent the extreme pumps that you see on crypto exchanges.

Most crypto exchanges don't want to pay for having market makers, and occasionally they'll offer a maker/taker reduction in fees but it isn't enough to compensate the market maker for the risk. So they go without market makers.

darewaller

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Wow, I have always had the mindset too that they do manipulate in this area, just that I have not seen much proof personally to back up my claim, I am sure those exchanges doing this are also reading this as they have lots of their representatives on the forum too, they will be looking for other means now to cover their secret but it is a good thing that we have smart people too around that will always expose them and proffer solution to their manipulation.

Thanks man, will also yield to this advice too when investing or performing any transaction on these exchanges, and I am sure you have indeed help others too on this forum, keep it up

davinchi

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Quote from: Crypto Girl on April 11, 2019, 04:00:42 AM

Moreover, I agree with the OP and in the contrary that many dump their token, perhaps trading sites isn't the one to point out. I believe as long as the project is solid and good no matter how many people dump their token, the demand will carried out.

Sure, a good product with a valuable product that is high in demand will be able to balance the equation after dumping has been done but we still need to frown at dumping done.

Because, the value also has a way of attracting users too to the product, they might have a good product that is capable of creating high demand, but something must attract the end users to it, which in this case is usually the value of the coin, and this dumping of a thing being blamed on bounty hunters is just a way of distracting people from seeing who the real dumpers are, which I typically agree with what many people has suspected in this forum, that it is the exchanges, all these exchanges too are contributing to the market fall because they buy some of these products internally and then dump it.

jjjfff

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I've been watching the order book on some popular tokens and I see obvious bots placing fake orders.

In one exchange there's a bot that keeps 10 to 20, 5 to 10 BTC size orders open all the time. Soon as the price moves the orders move too, they're always a few % below current price and a few % below the best bids, just to keep the buy wall large but they never actually buy (trade spoofing).

This could be the exchange itself, since a regular person would need a ton of BTC just to open these orders themselves.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: efxtrader on April 12, 2019, 06:05:22 AM

Quote from: niteroy on April 12, 2019, 04:33:58 AM

I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

I dont think the price manipulated. Like others investor behaviour, they just want to liquid their profits and convert it to others crypto or fiat. I think this is natural and always happen in any market. When the price reach peak, investor realizing the profits.

90% dump in 1 second is normal for you? You don't know what you are talking about than. This peak and dump happened in 1 second after opening trading. Who is that fast to think "hmm i think that it might be my target. I will sell here"

Quote from: meanwords on April 11, 2019, 11:59:06 AM

There's really nothing wrong about it. It was the investors' fault for trading in those prices. It's actually normal in and out of cryptocurrency space so there's nothing to complain about it. Also it's business, as long as they are not doing anything wrong while they are profiting from it, they'll just stay as it is.

They were not trading in those prices. They set market buy order before trade opening. Trading opens at +1000% (because as i write opening price is pure random) and their order was finalized there.

efxtrader

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Quote from: niteroy on April 12, 2019, 04:33:58 AM

I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

I dont think the price manipulated. Like others investor behaviour, they just want to liquid their profits and convert it to others crypto or fiat. I think this is natural and always happen in any market. When the price reach peak, investor realizing the profits.

niteroy

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I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

meanwords

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There's really nothing wrong about it. It was the investors' fault for trading in those prices. It's actually normal in and out of cryptocurrency space so there's nothing to complain about it. Also it's business, as long as they are not doing anything wrong while they are profiting from it, they'll just stay as it is.

fiulpro

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But don't you think this is better ?
We do have full responsibility about what we do at the same time we should be given full control about what we do and don't do , they can also make some rules to actually help , but this is really something that won't work.
The main idea of this market is freedom ! That we don't even have with our money , I don't think exchanges should come forward and intervene with the situation , it's us who should think about this , carefully buying and selling is what we can do and that's it !
I don't think we should blame the exchanges for this

It's our fault.

sana54210

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:41:18 AM

The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

I think you’re right, they all just want to make people lose so they can make their own money. But whatever, we ourselves too have to be careful and know what exchanges to make use of. Some exchanges are not really that reliable and they just look for ways to trick their customers and use them in making money themselves. When we look back to other markets after crypto related exchanges, these kinds of practices are being done for decades and small traders are suffering a lot as exchanges trap them to eat up their capital.

One simple solution must be, along with cryptos, there will be no need to be trading actively like rushing for a coin once it will be getting listed or anything similar to that. Just buy and hold what ever coins/tokens which are satisfying our selection criteria and after months of hold we may achieve what we could do through active trading. Yes, patience is the key and solution here.

Crypto Girl

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Quote from: Zadicar on March 25, 2019, 02:51:23 PM

Quote from: Reid on March 25, 2019, 08:56:55 AM

And that is also why many are selling on the first listing which they thought is the bounty hunters fault.

They should really look into this.
This could also stop the dumps that is happening in exchange for just a little amount of USD. That way the trust to crypto currencies could also be back.
We are losing supporters, better make a way to get them back.

Bounty hunters do always took the blame when it comes to first listing and then the price dumps.
About on the thing you do said,being optimistic to get them back isnt bad but doing it is the most hardest part.

That somehow the reality though if we look thorough, investors are one who first have their token and bounty hunters will just follow, while the allocation just have at least 1% of the total supply, so who really dump?

Moreover, I agree with the OP and in the contrary that many dump their token, perhaps trading sites isn't the one to point out. I believe as long as the project is solid and good no matter how many people dump their token, the demand will carried out.

Kimonoe

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Quote from: Adriano2010 on April 09, 2019, 03:14:44 PM

This also happen on stocks markets, but the exchange don't bind us to invest in a coin, is our choice and we can't be 100% sure that a coin will bring us fast profit, so is our choice where we invest money.

Cryptocurrency trading is how we manage opportunities, with enormous risks, so it is very dangerous for those who are unfamiliar. therefore we learn in theory, and then practice on the market

el kaka22

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The cryptocurrency world has been built upon the idea that we will not have regulations and the free market will decide whats what instead of really relying on the fact that governments do whats "best for the country" and so forth, which means if there is a new listing and people decide to sell it for cheap that means the coin is definitely not worth it and people want the profits and not be part of the project.

Think about it, if a project was so good why would anyone sell it the first second they could? They wouldn't sell it but instead buy more if the project was good, however since most of the projects are bad than the investor just wants to be part of the people who sell early and make a big profit, that's all. There is only one solution and thats not making bad projects.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: webtricks on April 09, 2019, 02:41:44 PM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:41:18 AM

So wheel is already invested. Why exchanges do not apply that? The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

The pictures shared by you are of coin listing on Binance. Binance hardly lists any new coin which isn't already trading on any other exchange. Almost all new listing are already trading on other exchanges which could easily be seen from CoinMarketCap. I don't think investors are so dumb that they don't see the existing price of coin before putting buy order on Binance. Only explanation could be price manipulation! Many investors try to create simultaneous buy and sell orders in order to inflate the starting price, then dump their whole holdings and exit the market. It is common practice in unregulated market. There is nothing an exchange could and should do. When the value of cryptocurrencies is non-intrinsic, why does exchange limit it?

That's not price manipulation. When you look on celer you can see that first candle is big red one with small bottom candlewick. It means that first trade was made with price 3000 sat. Every other was made below of that. How to manipulate price to do that? You would have to put huge buy order before trade opening to set fixed price that high but instantly you will be the most scammed person because you will be the only one buying that high. The only explanation of that is that there was no price fixing and exchange fulfil orders order by order matching market buy orders without limit price with x100 sell orders made for fun.

Adriano2010

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This also happen on stocks markets, but the exchange don't bind us to invest in a coin, is our choice and we can't be 100% sure that a coin will bring us fast profit, so is our choice where we invest money.

webtricks

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:41:18 AM

So wheel is already invested. Why exchanges do not apply that? The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

The pictures shared by you are of coin listing on Binance. Binance hardly lists any new coin which isn't already trading on any other exchange. Almost all new listing are already trading on other exchanges which could easily be seen from CoinMarketCap. I don't think investors are so dumb that they don't see the existing price of coin before putting buy order on Binance. Only explanation could be price manipulation! Many investors try to create simultaneous buy and sell orders in order to inflate the starting price, then dump their whole holdings and exit the market. It is common practice in unregulated market. There is nothing an exchange could and should do. When the value of cryptocurrencies is non-intrinsic, why does exchange limit it?

Siti Nurbaya

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It seems that it returns to the team and also requests, so coins are on the list and unable to compete so we are likely to lose capital. This is the risk that we experience, for this we must be able to see an active team and find ways to maintain its value. That situation keeps us optimistic or makes a decision to throw away.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: Greed Dev on April 09, 2019, 08:08:53 AM

elephants can manipulate prices right on exchange without having to worry about legal issues. therefore, exchange managers do not need to set up an anti-manipulation system.

This is not anti-manipulation system. Thats anty random price buy system. I've explained that.

Quote from: Greed Dev on April 09, 2019, 08:08:53 AM

I know that the stock market has security and offers optimal favor for traders. But in the crypto market, the exchanges work 24/24 and they don't have time to edit.

I'm talking about listing... not regular trading.

Topic: Why exchanges constantly expose you to the risk of losing your capital. (Read 652 times)