Why first instead of second? | Bitcointalksearch.org

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 21, 2014, 10:31:46 AM

Quote

Well 500 tx's must be enough because 3000bytes X 500tx's is approximately 1500000bytes which is 1500kilobytes and that is an overkill.

Simple transaction with one input and one output is ~ 192...223 bytes long (depending of pubkey format)
https://blockchain.info/tx/4369f8699329947f5abce3af1e05c2924bab1e608caee123adc12024eecc317c
not 3000 bytes.

Quote of me.

Quote from: yakuza699 on November 21, 2014, 10:16:34 AM

transaction which has 19 inputs 19 outputs pays 1 satoshi fee

Should be be a little bit more than 3000bytes.

So how much do you ask?

Quote from: amaclin on November 21, 2014, 10:17:59 AM

I am not sure, that sending 200 (300, 500... and even thousands) transactions at one time (through the different nodes of course) will change anything in network processing.

WE WILL SEE. After you create a program that does so.

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Quote

Well 500 tx's must be enough because 3000bytes X 500tx's is approximately 1500000bytes which is 1500kilobytes and that is an overkill.

Simple transaction with one input and one output is ~ 192...223 bytes long (depending of pubkey format)
https://blockchain.info/tx/4369f8699329947f5abce3af1e05c2924bab1e608caee123adc12024eecc317c
not 3000 bytes.

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Quote

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say here?

I am not sure, that sending 200 (300, 500... and even thousands) transactions at one time (through the different nodes of course) will change anything in network processing.

This is your idea, not mine.
You have asked "is is possible to create and send 200 transactions with one click?"
I've answered: "yes, it is possible"

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 21, 2014, 10:01:54 AM

Yes, of course this process can and should be automated.
I do not know existing solutions for it. But it is not a problem to write such program. (You are welcome to hire me Grin

)

How much would you ask for a program like that. What the program should do is create a transaction which has 19 inputs 19 outputs pays 1 satoshi fee than spend the unconfirmed coins from the other wallet (which just got the coins in the last tx) and repeat that x times.

Quote from: amaclin on November 21, 2014, 10:01:54 AM

For example look to the addresses
13eb7BFXgHeXfxrdDev1ehrBSGVPG6obu8 and 12f6cDdbioEr4ckNxjRyz3netnriQ4pAAW
(this is one pair for example, there are a lot of such pairs in the blockchain)

first step: split the small amount to the big number of outputs:
https://blockchain.info/tx/335a453b4017fda7146b41883c30b40857456538535684b3f79e8d0a8b9b6932
second step: return funds back to original address.

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say here?

Quote from: amaclin on November 21, 2014, 10:01:54 AM

( I am not sure that 200 txs will enough to flood the network )

Well 500 tx's must be enough because 3000bytes X 500tx's is approximately 1500000bytes which is 1500kilobytes and that is an overkill.

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Quote

Ok so I decided to flood the network with 200 tx's(should be enough) but creating a raw tx manually will take me like 2hours is there any faster way to do this?

Yes, of course this process can and should be automated.
I do not know existing solutions for it. But it is not a problem to write such program. (You are welcome to hire me Grin

)

For example look to the addresses
13eb7BFXgHeXfxrdDev1ehrBSGVPG6obu8 and 12f6cDdbioEr4ckNxjRyz3netnriQ4pAAW
(this is one pair for example, there are a lot of such pairs in the blockchain)

first step: split the small amount to the big number of outputs:
https://blockchain.info/tx/335a453b4017fda7146b41883c30b40857456538535684b3f79e8d0a8b9b6932
second step: return funds back to original address.

( I am not sure that 200 txs will enough to flood the network )

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Ok so I decided to flood the network with 200 tx's(should be enough) but creating a raw tx manually will take me like 2hours is there any faster way to do this?

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 14, 2014, 11:17:48 AM

Don't you have more useful things to do?

No, not really. And useful for who? What do you offer to do as useful things. And do you have any idea on below?

Quote from: yakuza699 on November 14, 2014, 11:12:33 AM

How much of those transactions should I make for my first transaction to not confirm?

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Don't you have more useful things to do?

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Ok so the owner of f2pool answered my questions. The reason why those tx's got confirmed is because they hit the block spree and ran out of high priority transactions and their minimum block size is 100kb so they had to fill it with free transactions. I don't want to my first transaction to get confirmed(3600bytes 0 fee) so I need to flood the network with 3000byte 1satoshi fee transactions the question is how much of those transactions should I make for my first transaction to not confirm?

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: yakuza699 on November 11, 2014, 04:21:24 PM

Quote from: notme on November 11, 2014, 04:00:36 PM

So you're trying to double spend, and then complaining that the network won't let you?

I am trying to do a double-spend attempt. I send one first transaction which will not confirm and than I send another tx which will confirm the problem is that f2pool now confirms first transactions.

The "problem" is that pools use the first transaction they see to provide better protection against double spends and you are trying to double spend.

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

LOL

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: notme on November 11, 2014, 04:00:36 PM

So you're trying to double spend, and then complaining that the network won't let you?

I am trying to do a double-spend attempt. I send one first transaction which will not confirm and than I send another tx which will confirm the problem is that f2pool now confirms first transactions.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: yakuza699 on November 11, 2014, 11:05:18 AM

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:50:49 AM

The answer is here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9359816 :
We do not currently replace conflicting transactions to prevent potential double spend.

SHIT.

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:50:49 AM

It is impossible to confirm both transactions. And there is no pool with replace-by-fee method now.
I think that there will be no such pool with this option available to everyone in near future.

Well but one of those blocks would get orphaned?

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:50:49 AM

OK, the testnet is not a right place also.
BTW, how did you get referal code? I want too Grin

Favor for favor you think/found the method for me on:How when I send first tx with 0fee and than second with 0.0004fee only for second to get confirmed and I will share the ref key ONLY with you(I guess he won't get mad that I shared it only with you)

EDIT: What I am trying to here is:
Lets say that my friend accepts 0conf transactions and will ship me 5USD after he sees the incoming tx. So I send first transaction with 0fee he sends me 5USD when I get the dollars I quickly broadcast a conflicting tx which will get confirmed so first drops and I still get the dollars.(That was just an example so you can understand better what I want to achieve with all those tx's)

So you're trying to double spend, and then complaining that the network won't let you?

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 11:28:41 AM

I want my own referal code

Just ask him that's what I did.

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 11:28:41 AM

There is no way to be 100% sure that the "second" transaction will be confirmed. Sometimes network will confirm your "first" transaction.
Sometimes both transactions will be unconfirmed.
The steps for double-spending attempts are:
1) backup your wallet.dat and remove it from bitcoin folder
2) start bitcoin core client (it will create new wallet.dat)
3) send "first" raw transaction via console
4) do a pray
5) restart bitcoin core client with connections to many nodes
6) send "second" raw transaction
7) repeat steps 4-6

I create a low priority tx Eligius doesn't hold them so I can push the conflicting tx there wouldn't that be easier?

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Quote

Favor for favor you think/found the method for me on:How when I send first tx with 0fee and than second with 0.0004fee only for second to get confirmed and I will share the ref key ONLY with you(I guess he won't get mad that I shared it only with you)

I want my own referal code

There is no way to be 100% sure that the "second" transaction will be confirmed. Sometimes network will confirm your "first" transaction.
Sometimes both transactions will be unconfirmed.

The steps for double-spending attempts are:
1) backup your wallet.dat and remove it from bitcoin folder
2) start bitcoin core client (it will create new wallet.dat)
3) send "first" raw transaction via console
4) do a pray
5) restart bitcoin core client with connections to many nodes
6) send "second" raw transaction
7) repeat steps 4-6

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:50:49 AM

The answer is here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9359816 :
We do not currently replace conflicting transactions to prevent potential double spend.

SHIT.

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:50:49 AM

It is impossible to confirm both transactions. And there is no pool with replace-by-fee method now.
I think that there will be no such pool with this option available to everyone in near future.

Well but one of those blocks would get orphaned?

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:50:49 AM

OK, the testnet is not a right place also.
BTW, how did you get referal code? I want too Grin

Favor for favor you think/found the method for me on:How when I send first tx with 0fee and than second with 0.0004fee only for second to get confirmed and I will share the ref key ONLY with you(I guess he won't get mad that I shared it only with you)

EDIT: What I am trying to here is:
Lets say that my friend accepts 0conf transactions and will ship me 5USD after he sees the incoming tx. So I send first transaction with 0fee he sends me 5USD when I get the dollars I quickly broadcast a conflicting tx which will get confirmed so first drops and I still get the dollars.(That was just an example so you can understand better what I want to achieve with all those tx's)

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Quote from: macbook-air on October 28, 2014, 01:18:56 PM

I don't think so as f2pool is only at 28% and it would only confirm one transaction the one with the bigger fee and not both transactions.

It is impossible to confirm both transactions. And there is no pool with replace-by-fee method now.
I think that there will be no such pool with this option available to everyone in near future.

Quote

Well testnet is not the place for me too because I experiment with the main chain and it's pools which has different rules from the testnet(Eligus or f2pool for example).

OK, the testnet is not a right place also.

BTW, how did you get referal code? I want too Grin

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:18:36 AM

Just do not broadcast the first transaction

Haha OP says: "(Just don't answer like "Just don't send them)".

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:18:36 AM

May be the message was "Invalid Referral Code" ?
There is a little difference between "Internal server error" and "Invalid Referral Code"

The message was "duplicated transaction" just remembered it (lol my memory is totally not the best) I got the referral from the owner of f2pool so I am sure that it was not "Invalid Referral Code"

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:18:36 AM

I think that bitcoin will die before than some big pool will implement this feature.

I don't think so as f2pool is only at 28% and it would only confirm one transaction the one with the bigger fee and not both transactions.

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 10:18:36 AM

Bitcoin main network is not a right place for doublespending tests.

Well testnet is not the place for me too because I experiment with the main chain and it's pools which has different rules from the testnet(Eligus or f2pool for example).

amaclin

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1019

Quote

What I wanted is that second would confirm and first would silently get dropped after second got confirmed.

Just do not broadcast the first transaction

Quote

First I pushed it on Eligius and then just to see if f2pool holds low priority tx's at it's memory pool I pushed it on f2pool.com/pushtx which returned into something like "Internal server error".

May be the message was "Invalid Referral Code" ?
There is a little difference between "Internal server error" and "Invalid Referral Code"

Quote

It would be nice to see them implementing it. I think it would be the first pool to implement it?

I think that bitcoin will die before than some big pool will implement this feature.

Quote

Second transaction confirms and first one doesn't and after time it drops. First or second tx should be modified in order for only second tx to confirm.

Bitcoin main network is not a right place for doublespending tests.

yakuza699

hero member

Activity: 935

Merit: 1002

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 09:50:52 AM

Why? Miners can put zero-fee transactions in their blocks.

What I wanted is that second would confirm and first would silently get dropped after second got confirmed.

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 09:50:52 AM

1) f2pool had not received your double-spending transactions with fees. Pushing them into Eligius does not guarantee that every node will receive them

First I pushed it on Eligius and then just to see if f2pool holds low priority tx's at it's memory pool I pushed it on f2pool.com/pushtx which returned into something like "Internal server error".

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 09:50:52 AM

2) f2pool does not have replace-by-fee methods

It would be nice to see them implementing it. I think it would be the first pool to implement it?

Quote from: amaclin on November 11, 2014, 09:50:52 AM

It depends of what result you want to achieve.

Second transaction confirms and first one doesn't and after time it drops. First or second tx should be modified in order for only second tx to confirm.

Topic: Why first instead of second? (Read 2634 times)