Why gambling and mixing called bad actors in bitcoin - page 3.

justdimin

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Quote from: maydna on April 27, 2023, 08:30:21 AM

I think it's because perhaps, some bad actors use bitcoins to launder their money in casinos so they are not detected in doing money laundering. After all, when they buy bitcoins on the black market, they transfer the money to the seller and the seller either sends the bitcoins to another wallet or sends them directly to a bitcoin mixer. So perhaps, that's why bitcoin mixers are often seen as providing money laundering services when they are not.

Bitcoin mixing is like a double-edged sword that can be used for good and bad, depending on the person using it. So actually, what to chase are bad people who use bitcoin mixing for bad things but it won't be easy to trace them because they are also smart in hiding everything.

That is a common thing in regular casinos as well, that is why it is not easy to get in and just give cash and take chips. There are even casinos that do not take cash as well, just for this purpose alone and I feel like that's an important thing.

I understand the need and protection about it, what if I go to a casino with a million dollars, gamble a bit, and then take it out? I could literally cause a trouble with it and then I could end up with a laundered money. By that time when I withdraw if anyone asks where I found it, I could just say I won it at a casino. This is why laundering on gambling is common and it is easy, and that is why most casinos started to ask for KYC as well, it is doing fine and should not be shocked at all.

mindrust

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

From my experience and observations, I noticed both Bitcoin mixing and online gambling using Bitcoin are mostly regarded as bad actors in Bitcoin despite both being the highest Bitcoin adopters and having the largest Bitcoin volume in transactions and services.
Secondly, if Gambling and Bitcoin mixing services are called bad actors, what about centralized exchanges are they also perceived as bad actors in Bitcoin?

Gambling is not liked in every country in the world. It is not specific to bitcoin. In some countries, gambling is completely forbidden. In my country for example, only the games provided by the government is allowed. Bitcoin is opening up a great opportunity to the people that don't want to get robbed by the government. I said this before, bitcoin's best use case is probably gambling. Because of that reason, it will never die.

Mixing coins on the other hand is a gray area. You may want to stay anonymous and there is nothing wrong with that. However, other people that use these mixing services might not be that innocent. And you don't know if you are getting their dirty coins or not. I am not really a fan of them.

Gyfts

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Quote from: franky1 on April 27, 2023, 09:15:57 PM

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Granted you're mixing your coins for actual privacy and not concealment of a crime, then even the heightened scrutiny/overwatch from regulators don't mean anything. And that's if they care enough to actually track your coins. Use a half decent mixer and you can achieve reasonable privacy. If international law enforcement is after you, mixing your coins won't do anything. There is no escaping their grip.

Mixers do get a bad rep, there's nothing inherently wrong with them and I'd encourage people to use them if they actually care about true privacy. Bitcoin is closer to anonymous than the traditional banking system even though the addresses can personify someone if you allow it to, it's just not enough. If I could go back and ask for something different about the BTC protocol, it'd be more anonymity like Monero does it.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on April 28, 2023, 06:25:38 PM

Where did you get the idea that they are considered "bad actors" and "in Bitcoin"? Bitcoin community certainly views them favorably. I can only think of the regulated exchanges that are avoiding transactions from these services because of potential troubles with the law - unlicensed casinos could be used for money laundering, and mixing is used by criminals to obscure their tracks.

do take note that one of the old use cases of crypto or btc in particular is in the field of gambling business. just look at primedice, freebitco and other old gambling sites. i guess some of the old time crypto users have gone into crypto owed to these gambling sites.
also do remember that gambling even without crypto exist long time ago. so this is just another facet of crypto usage.

hatshepsut93

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Where did you get the idea that they are considered "bad actors" and "in Bitcoin"? Bitcoin community certainly views them favorably. I can only think of the regulated exchanges that are avoiding transactions from these services because of potential troubles with the law - unlicensed casinos could be used for money laundering, and mixing is used by criminals to obscure their tracks.

tjtonmoy

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

~Snip

Things are bad only when you use it for a bad purpose. Nothing is bad unless it is used in such a way that to people it seems bad. Same could be said about all mentioned things in this OP.
Mixing is a way to preserve your privacy and to keep yourself safe. But when you combine that with criminal acts, it becomes bad. Same thing with gambling. As long as it doesn't become an addiction, it's all fun and game.
Now to think that if centralized exchanges are as bad as those two examples. It is possible, because as I said before, when you use it for a bad cause, it is bad. And to think it in other way, bitcoin is decentralized and should not be kept in centralized exchanges. Bitcoin looses its whole purpose, and are you really hodling your BTC when you keep them in CEX? It is not your coin until you withdraw it in a personal decentralized wallet.

panganib999

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It all boils down to scam accusations and allegations of tolerating hackers.

Looking at the signature campaign I represent (a mixing website), I think I have all the rights to put out my two cents in the issue.

The main reason why Mixing is getting hate nowadays is due to the media sensationalizing Cryptocurrency Mixers, and due to allegations in the past of hackers turning to Mixers to wash off their stolen bitcoins. Which happened sparingly in the past don't get me wrong, but nowadays don't happen as much, especially since mixers are becoming more and more intelligent by the day, and most cryptocurrencies are stolen in exchanges, which they themselves employ contingencies for large-scale hackings.

As for the cryptocurrency gambling industry being hated on, I have very little idea. But I can infer that it may have something to do with some sites, especially ones that are irreputable committing fraud against their customers by not paying them their correct wins or locking their cryptos in their gambling accounts and then closing them without notice.

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Quote from: franky1 on April 27, 2023, 06:34:15 PM

Quote from: Hispo on April 27, 2023, 02:07:10 PM

On mixing, one must wonder if every time to go to the store to buy a candy and pay with a bill, the vendor would ask you about the entire history of the bill from its printing years ago until the day you got it to pay for candy. Even though you are not a criminal but rather the most honest person in your city Roll Eyes

...
with exchanges its the same your given a risk rating.
if all your deposits are all mixed sourced then you have a higher risk rating than someone that does not use a mixer
meet a threshold and they start to look closer at you

deposit $10. dont worry.. however deposit $1k-$10k-$100k, then expect to be on a watch list with more involved investigation reporting the higher the risk/amount is
government, regulators and authorities dont chase after criminals or suspects over $1-$10. they want the big fish

In my opinion, it is not the same for several reasons.
Firstly, since exchanges go and will continue to go with automated software to check the blockchain path of the deposits, they can adjust their filters to check on deposits as small as they consider to be necessary. Unlike cash.

I can go with a 100$ bill to buy anything and that is okey, it may be different on exchanges.

Also, if I was a drug lord and I deposited 20$ to Binance I could get flagged, if the funds came from the bulk of the illegally obtained satoshis, on the other hand in the same situation, I could take a 20$ from the mountain of dirty money in my narco bunker and buy something with it and no reasonable human being would check for the bill serial number in a data base before selling me a pizza.

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Z390

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The irresponsible gamblers are the bad actors giving Bitcoin a general bad look from those who don't understand Bitcoin and that's because those gamblers don't know how to manage risks when gambling, Bitcoin is not to be accused of gambling. After all, gamblers can use local currencies to gamble too.

A person becoming addicted to gambling has nothing to do with Bitcoin, Bitcoin was created as a decentralized digital currency, and itblame. Casino owners are aware of this, and they accept Bitcoin payments.

Bitcoin was never a gambler's currency, it was not created as a gambling currency, people lack the knowledge that's why they put all blames om Bitcoin, if they can at least try to learn they will know they've wrongly accused Bitcoin.

cydrix

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Due to the drawbacks that the majority of people focus on and the historical component of what has occurred, which links gambling and crypto mixing with illegal or immoral acts, these activities are constantly viewed as bad actors in the cryptocurrency sector.
My sense is that gambling is not just viewed negatively in the crypto realm; it is also negatively viewed in real life owing to religious beliefs, people's personal experiences, and other factors.
However, the bad actors in gambling are usually those who abuse and lose control of the buzz, which typically results in addiction, debt, and even potential fraud issues. Additionally, gamblers have the potential to abuse fiat currency or cryptocurrencies to start their addiction, which would theoretically result in sizable financial losses.

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

From my experience and observations, I noticed both Bitcoin mixing and online gambling using Bitcoin are mostly regarded as bad actors in Bitcoin despite both being the highest Bitcoin adopters and having the largest Bitcoin volume in transactions and services.
Secondly, if Gambling and Bitcoin mixing services are called bad actors, what about centralized exchanges are they also perceived as bad actors in Bitcoin?

What makes both seem bad is the abuse of privacy and betting, otherwise both (privacy and betting) are good if not abused/misused.
Luckily Bitcoin users can choose to avoid or reject coins they found to be mixed or from gambling... unless the coins are from responsible mixing or betting sites. And by responsible mixing/betting sites, I mean sites that prevent or discourage crime money or gamblers from going through them.
In regards to Centralized Exchanges, you could consider them bad if they are not regulated properly by governments and depending on how far they deviate from the Bitcoin Principles.

Unlike fiat system, Bitcoin is public and transparent enough for all to see and decide whether to accept or reject coins linked to good or evil works.

Hyphen(-)

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

From my experience and observations, I noticed both Bitcoin mixing and online gambling using Bitcoin are mostly regarded as bad actors in Bitcoin despite both being the highest Bitcoin adopters and having the largest Bitcoin volume in transactions and services.

Everyone has a different point of view, but I don't consider Bitcoin Mixers and Gambling to be bad acts because of privacy and passion.
People gamble for fun, while others gamble for a high return in a short period of time, taking a very high risk in the process.
While people use mixers to get fully secured, mixers also provide us with privacy, and according to the Bitcoin rule of anonymity, mixers are excellent tools to use in order to achieve that anonymity in Bitcoin.

Quote from: Ludmilla_rose1995 on April 27, 2023, 04:57:47 AM

why is CEX considered a bad actor in Bitcoin? it is precisely because of CEX that crypto adoption is easier and crypto trading is more secure. even though there are several cases where CEX went bankrupt or took the money away, this is only natural, because that is the negative thing about CEX, but that doesn't make CEX a bad actor in Bitcoin, we have to see it in full, because there are still many other CEX platforms that run their services well.

Centralized exchanges are very useful, especially when purchasing Bitcoin if you are unable to obtain it through peer-to-peer trading, and it also increases the rate of Bitcoin adoption in some parts of the world because some people find out about Bitcoin through CEX.
The main risk is leaving your Bitcoin in their custody; you should move your Bitcoin to personal wallets rather than leaving them in the exchange.

Maestro75

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Quote from: Gozie51 on April 27, 2023, 07:08:16 AM

This is simply a question of morality and not legality. For gambling yes in the distant past it was perceived by different jurisdiction to be an activity for people who are not able to find jobs to engage themselves, feed their families. It was peculiar classification of unemployed people, better definition for laziness and those looking for easy virtue. Back then the above description is the way African society see gambling and gamblers, a terrain for unsuccessful people, drunks and unuseful hands.

Also, you already understand what bitcoin mixer is. When a mixer company receive bitcoin from different people and utters or mixes them so that the original traceable identity will be lost and you can't trace the wallet where it was sent out from or whatever quantity sent or to be delivered afterwards. You see by simple understanding, it appears as if it is an illicit act

Even till today gamblers are still classified as irresponsible people in parts of the society where materialism is looked down on. But for those who make money their god, they have soft spot for gamblers and give the excuse that they do it because they are unemployed since government can not provide jobs for everybody. That excuse should not be accepted because there are unemployed people who also see gambling as evil, it is not about religiosity but of morality like you mentioned. Mixers are seen as more of aiding money laundering than a legal business and that is why they are often chased and harassed by government. You are correct in all you pointed out.

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Using Bitcoin is frowned upon, so we are all bad actors! it's just a circumstantial fact.

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

From my experience and observations, I noticed both Bitcoin mixing and online gambling using Bitcoin are mostly regarded as bad actors in Bitcoin despite both being the highest Bitcoin adopters and having the largest Bitcoin volume in transactions and services.
Secondly, if Gambling and Bitcoin mixing services are called bad actors, what about centralized exchanges are they also perceived as bad actors in Bitcoin? Naeeo

I would say this that the CEX are crypto regulatory arm of government and the government discreetly use it to get at individuals and government officials who goes against her policies. Centralized exchange as the name implies only shows you that they are the government puppets to fight against perceived oppositions into cryptocurrency. The centralized exchange steal your identity to supply the government upon any request and possible placement.

Reatim

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what I see here is depending on whom who are looking and calling it such ,

There are reputation about Mixing site that had been questioned as they are being used to be a cause of money laundering , but that is the other part and what we are not discussing about how the mixing site helping us to be safer as we are not being exposed .

so all in all? it is not about being bad actor but about the good one.

also in Gambling site , it has been an old call because now? each site required their players to wager first and some are even bigger that the launderer will consider this as risk ,
so the winner will be the site than that who wanted to launder .

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

From my experience and observations, I noticed both Bitcoin mixing and online gambling using Bitcoin are mostly regarded as bad actors in Bitcoin despite both being the highest Bitcoin adopters and having the largest Bitcoin volume in transactions and services.

Lucky me, I never heard that both as bad actors. Until today, I just heard that Bitcoin is very useful to hide your privacy and wealth from curious people, so that situation that makes your life is saved from criminals who want to know how much your treasure is. So, maybe because you know that both from the forum or social media only who always spread FUD everywhere. because when you know how helpful Bitcoin safe your privacy and wealth than another platform like a bank, I really sure you will exchange all your investments to bitcoin.

franky1

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Quote from: death69 on April 27, 2023, 04:03:20 PM

Bitcoin mixing and online gambling have been given the stink eye in the crypto 'hood. True, they've got ties to shady dealings and sketchy conduct, but I'd argue it's mostly 'cause peeps lack the information on these services. Take Bitcoin mixing, a wicked tool for upping privacy and security in cyberspace. Scrambling transactions and making the blockchain go incognito, mixers thwart Big Brother and cyber baddies, adding a shield against their prying eyes.

they dont though
by simply using mixers. gets you highlighted

real the regulations and polices of financial businesses. realise mixers dont hide you but get you put into the sights of overwatch

ok imagine this simple thing
imagine a busy street with people walking up and down sidewalks going about with their day. then there are 2 guys with suitcases.
one guy just goes about his business as usual another guy has been instructed to run behind bushes, stay in the shadows. duck behind cars.

now guess what.. everyone on same sidewalk will think thats silly movement is the odd behaviour
yep the one trying to hide is the one that stands out

now the guy trying to hide has many people looking at him wondering what peculiar movements he is doing. now they are curious wondering what he is upto

yep by actually trying to hide gets you noticed.

understand that fact of life.

putting aside the other silly bad PR campaigns of mixers. and whos pushing them hard. just using a mixer creates a red flag when using financial services.

Fatunad

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Quote from: Prestongold on April 27, 2023, 02:07:37 AM

From my experience and observations, I noticed both Bitcoin mixing and online gambling using Bitcoin are mostly regarded as bad actors in Bitcoin despite both being the highest Bitcoin adopters and having the largest Bitcoin volume in transactions and services.
Secondly, if Gambling and Bitcoin mixing services are called bad actors, what about centralized exchanges are they also perceived as bad actors in Bitcoin?

Even on fiat world on which gambling does really have that bad image and this would pertains or in connection with addiction which is something that been highly frowned upon which it isnt something new nor shocking.
As for mixing then expect that government would be always focusing about that money laundering thing which its no surprise but if we do look up closely on what are the things around then fiat is mainly been used
with these transactions and they are really just diverting the attention just because they do simply hate it on the first place.This is why as an enthusiast then you would be calling these things as bullshit reasoning
without even trying out to focus on what they are gonna supposed to do and minding their own business. No matter how bad it would be looking but still people on the community and its supporters do really look the
opposite and this is why we do see on how it did able to sustain after a decades time. This is why government is really that too negative and keeps on sharing up that bad image about it.

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Just because the transaction can't be traced people term it to be bad. Mixing service were used for illegal transaction and for tax evasion and other benefits. This could give a negative impression over bitcoin and not everyone have such thoughts. These are people who already have negative thinking over bitcoin as a bad thing.

When it comes to gambling, there is a misunderstanding bitcoin is developed for gambling and for illegal needs. In the early days the gambling platforms have helped much in the growth of bitcoin. Now scenario is different and people use for different needs. Even now relating it with gambling is not fair. People should understand how big is the market and what part gambling holds.

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