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Topic: Why I don't think Pirate will default - page 2. (Read 3320 times)

donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
August 23, 2012, 05:27:54 AM
#11
Disclaimer: I hold no financial interest in Pirate@40's endeavors, nor do I condone investing in shady 7% a week schemes.

I have recently been approached about my current position of Bitcoin Savings & Trust. While in the past I have remained fairly negative about BS&T, accusing the fantastical rewards as impossible and the entire business as a scam, with recent proceedings I have been forced to change my position. Although I refuse to accept that investors in BS&T have made a smart business decision, I am now forced to agree that the dice have turned their way and investors in BS&T will be receiving their full investments, plus interest, back.

Below is my rationale, point-by-point for structure.

  • Trusted operator: Pirate@40, although I have previously discounted this fact, is well-trusted in the Bitcoin community. This is both a white and red flag, admittedly, as investors may not have participated if a non-trusted member formed BS&T
  • Known operator: In similar vein, Pirate@40 is supposedly well-known among investors, having disclosed a factual name and picture. Admittedly, well-known Ponzi schemes have done the same; Bernie Madoff and Charles Ponzi not excepting. However, when the choice exists to be anonymous, Ponzi operators are likely to take it.
  • Continued communication: In an environment like Bitcoin's now, and building upon experience from Madoff and Ponzi, a true Ponzi operator would likely choose to fly to an exotic country and cease communication. Pirate@40 has done neither.
  • Payback: While all Ponzi operators have historically attempted payback when the operation is collapsing, the situation involving Pirate@40 is distinct in certain ways. The crucial difference here: Pirate@40 has closed the scheme himself. With the option of simply taking all the money and leaving, paying back a few investors is not constructive to his goals.
  • Financial incentive: At this point, with many PPT bonds in free-fall, Pirate@40 himself has the option of purchasing a large amount and reducing his debt. This gives him a financial incentive to repay his lenders. Additionally, Pirate@40 runs a reportedly successful business in GPUMAX, profits from which would disappear if Pirate@40 chooses to vanish.


I think it's more a Madoff than a Ponzi.

Failure to pay back doesn't need to be planned from the beginning to be very real. There is a fine line between risky gambling disguised as safe investment and actual machinated fraud. However profitable his "shady" operations may be, I'm willing to believe he won't be able to pay up. That's what the bet is about. There are many signs pointing to it.

- failed attempt to tank the market during last weekend.
- stupidly passive-aggressive behaviour. Denial.
- he paid a couple small accounts with coins from his mining operation.
- he won't come clean at this point, with neither proof of solvency nor information on this supposed assets (there are plausible explanations for this particular point, though).



I believe he thought he could pull it off. Thus, all the contradictions you mention against the "planned it from the beginning" theories. But numbers don't seem to add up and I'm in the "he won't be able to make it" camp.

I also think he's still trying and is under massive pressure. But worst comes to worst, will he pay up as much as he can and be a fraud + broke? or be just a fraud and run with a large share of the bounty?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
August 23, 2012, 04:56:48 AM
#10
Disclaimer: I hold no financial interest in Pirate@40's endeavors, nor do I condone investing in shady 7% a week schemes.

I have recently been approached about my current position of Bitcoin Savings & Trust. While in the past I have remained fairly negative about BS&T, accusing the fantastical rewards as impossible and the entire business as a scam, with recent proceedings I have been forced to change my position. Although I refuse to accept that investors in BS&T have made a smart business decision, I am now forced to agree that the dice have turned their way and investors in BS&T will be receiving their full investments, plus interest, back.

Below is my rationale, point-by-point for structure.

  • Trusted operator: Pirate@40, although I have previously discounted this fact, is well-trusted in the Bitcoin community. This is both a white and red flag, admittedly, as investors may not have participated if a non-trusted member formed BS&T
  • Known operator: In similar vein, Pirate@40 is supposedly well-known among investors, having disclosed a factual name and picture. Admittedly, well-known Ponzi schemes have done the same; Bernie Madoff and Charles Ponzi not excepting. However, when the choice exists to be anonymous, Ponzi operators are likely to take it.
  • Continued communication: In an environment like Bitcoin's now, and building upon experience from Madoff and Ponzi, a true Ponzi operator would likely choose to fly to an exotic country and cease communication. Pirate@40 has done neither.
  • Payback: While all Ponzi operators have historically attempted payback when the operation is collapsing, the situation involving Pirate@40 is distinct in certain ways. The crucial difference here: Pirate@40 has closed the scheme himself. With the option of simply taking all the money and leaving, paying back a few investors is not constructive to his goals.
  • Financial incentive: At this point, with many PPT bonds in free-fall, Pirate@40 himself has the option of purchasing a large amount and reducing his debt. This gives him a financial incentive to repay his lenders. Additionally, Pirate@40 runs a reportedly successful business in GPUMAX, profits from which would disappear if Pirate@40 chooses to vanish.

+1

And I'm sure that's why some are betting huge money that Pirate will pay back. He doesn't act as a scammer, at all. There would be no point in him staying around after having closed his operation if he were to scam people.

Anyway...
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
August 23, 2012, 04:31:25 AM
#9
I agree. The only thing that counts against him is that 4 days after he claimed he would start paying people only one guy claims to have seen a petty 100 BTC, but of course that's not important compared to the points you've listed.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
August 23, 2012, 03:33:24 AM
#8
The most significant assumption here is that pirate's endgame is actually rational (from either his or anyone elses perspective)
mem
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 501
Herp Derp PTY LTD
August 23, 2012, 12:36:08 AM
#7
TL;DR = I has money invested and dont want to consider the alternative.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
Si vis pacem, para bellum
August 22, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
#6
the op reads like: if it were a ponzi pirate would have flew to some exotic country

Does anyone know 100%  pirate is still in texas or even in the united states ?

he could be anywhere by now if he so choose with about 5+ million  $ worth of asets

legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
August 22, 2012, 11:02:43 PM
#5
Not very convincing imo.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
August 22, 2012, 10:10:02 PM
#4
FYI, the guy behind Ginko Financial was well known and respected among the finance crowd, people knew his name and the country he lived in, and after the crash he stayed around, kept in contact, tried to reassure people, and did everything he could to get people's money back. Some people were paid back, but most could not. Pirate even admitted himself that he had to close and liquidate because it was getting unsustainable (he mentioned a bunch of pulling out when he announced lowering interest, which was essentially a run on his bank).
As for financial incentives, IF he still has it (and it was't given out as interest over the year), he has 500,000BTC. What more does one want?

By the way, I totally understand how the really sad, depressing, zombie-like state of shock, denial, and stress with all of this feels like. Been there, done that, really sorry for you guys, and totally hope I am wrong.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
August 22, 2012, 10:03:52 PM
#3
    You admit that your first and second points aren't very strong. The third doesn't tip the scales either (obviously, only full payouts will). So I'll respond to the fourth and fifth.

  • Payback: While all Ponzi operators have historically attempted payback when the operation is collapsing, the situation involving Pirate@40 is distinct in certain ways. The crucial difference here: Pirate@40 has closed the scheme himself. With the option of simply taking all the money and leaving, paying back a few investors is not constructive to his goals.

He admitted that he was forced to close the scheme (aka collapse) because of too many withdrawals.

After much consideration, I’ve decided to close down Bitcoin Savings & Trust. 

Why?
The decision was based on the general size and overall time required to manage the transactions.  As the fund grew there were larger and larger coin movements which put strain on my reserve accounts and ultimately caused delays on withdraws and the inability to fund orders within my system.  On the 14th I made a final attempt to relieve pressure off the system by reducing the rates I offered for deposits.  In a perfect world this would allow me to hold more coins in reserve outside the system, but instead it only exponentially increased the amount of withdrawals overnight causing mass panic from many of my lenders.


  • Financial incentive: At this point, with many PPT bonds in free-fall, Pirate@40 himself has the option of purchasing a large amount and reducing his debt. This gives him a financial incentive to repay his lenders. Additionally, Pirate@40 runs a reportedly successful business in GPUMAX, profits from which would disappear if Pirate@40 chooses to vanish.

The spreads on the PPT bonds are enormous, so there is not much trading going on at the quoted bid prices. So no, that is not really an option for him (because there aren't enough lenders aren't willing to take a big haircut, at least not yet).

GPUMax is only reportedly successful. Looking through the thread, there are many complaints of no bids for mining work. This reflects a lack of demand to pay a price premium for virgin/vanilla coin.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
August 22, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
#2
FYI, Madoff didn't leave the country. Stanford tried, but it was such a rookie maneuver and so late in the game it screams a lack of planning. Problem a lot of these confidence men have is they start buying their own lies and hype.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1077
August 22, 2012, 09:17:51 PM
#1
Disclaimer: I hold no financial interest in Pirate@40's endeavors, nor do I condone investing in shady 7% a week schemes.

I have personally retracted this statement.

I have recently been approached about my current position of Bitcoin Savings & Trust. While in the past I have remained fairly negative about BS&T, accusing the fantastical rewards as impossible and the entire business as a scam, with recent proceedings I have been forced to change my position. Although I refuse to accept that investors in BS&T have made a smart business decision, I am now forced to agree that the dice have turned their way and investors in BS&T will be receiving their full investments, plus interest, back.

Below is my rationale, point-by-point for structure.


  • Trusted operator: Pirate@40, although I have previously discounted this fact, is well-trusted in the Bitcoin community. This is both a white and red flag, admittedly, as investors may not have participated if a non-trusted member formed BS&T
  • Known operator: In similar vein, Pirate@40 is supposedly well-known among investors, having disclosed a factual name and picture. Admittedly, well-known Ponzi schemes have done the same; Bernie Madoff and Charles Ponzi not excepting. However, when the choice exists to be anonymous, Ponzi operators are likely to take it.
  • Continued communication: In an environment like Bitcoin's now, and building upon experience from Madoff and Ponzi, a true Ponzi operator would likely choose to fly to an exotic country and cease communication. Pirate@40 has done neither.
  • Payback: While all Ponzi operators have historically attempted payback when the operation is collapsing, the situation involving Pirate@40 is distinct in certain ways. The crucial difference here: Pirate@40 has closed the scheme himself. With the option of simply taking all the money and leaving, paying back a few investors is not constructive to his goals.
  • Financial incentive: At this point, with many PPT bonds in free-fall, Pirate@40 himself has the option of purchasing a large amount and reducing his debt. This gives him a financial incentive to repay his lenders. Additionally, Pirate@40 runs a reportedly successful business in GPUMAX, profits from which would disappear if Pirate@40 chooses to vanish.
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