Why I love the speculators in Bitcoin. - page 2.

jakelyson

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 21, 2019, 07:56:20 AM

I would prefer to keep my location private for my own security, but it is safe to say that I frequently work on contract for my work in several countries and I have arranged with a lot of food merchants to accept Bitcoin as a payment option as soon as I arrive in a new location. They tend to agree very quickly if you promise to spend "money" daily at their "shop" Roll Eyes

Some may think that merchants not accepting bitcoin is a hurdle in spending their coins. But you actually showed us that it can be done. Merchants can be persuaded to actually accept bitcoin. Kudos.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: pooya87 on July 28, 2019, 10:50:51 PM

the problem with bitcoin price volatility stems from the small size of the market not the existence of speculators. and when i say "market" it is basically the handful centralized exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken, Gemeni, Bitstamp and bitfinex where the price is decided. since these exchanges still have moderately small orderbooks with not enough bids and asks in them, whenever there is a surge in trades the price moves fast in one direction hence creating the volatility.
the solution would be to increase the size of these markets. it can be done with more adoption but also if these exchanges become more secure so that people feel safer trading and leaving open orders.

With increased demand and adoption -- and yes, more confidence in exchanges -- we would see more liquidity on the buy side. I'm not convinced the selling side would thicken up that much, though. For Bitcoin's whole life, very little of the total supply has traded on exchanges. It might just be like that forever. For that reason, in terms of price, I wonder if we'll see more flat plateaus in the future rather than deep bear markets like 2014.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 28, 2019, 10:50:51 PM

Quote from: jseverson on July 22, 2019, 01:21:39 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on July 21, 2019, 10:04:34 AM

And what happens when these speculators push the price down and you have to pay more for your taco? Do you wait for the prices to stabilize or spend some anyway?
This is the well known dilemma we are facing every day. By we I mean the people who count their money and actually plan their savings and expenses. I know a few guys who regretted spending their bitcoins. Once one of my friends borrowed cash from me and promised to pay me back in bitcoin. By the time that happened bitcoin was worth at least 20% more and you can imagine that he had wasn't too happy.

Well, you live with it. Volatility is a double-edged sword. Also, it's not like Bitcoin would be stable without speculators. It could even be more volatile if they exit, considering lower market cap = higher volatility.

Right now, I'd say more users of Bitcoin is better, regardless of what they bring to the table.

the problem with bitcoin price volatility stems from the small size of the market not the existence of speculators. and when i say "market" it is basically the handful centralized exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken, Gemeni, Bitstamp and bitfinex where the price is decided. since these exchanges still have moderately small orderbooks with not enough bids and asks in them, whenever there is a surge in trades the price moves fast in one direction hence creating the volatility.
the solution would be to increase the size of these markets. it can be done with more adoption but also if these exchanges become more secure so that people feel safer trading and leaving open orders.

Well, a lot of exchanges has not been hacked and Coinbase is showing a massive increase in account creation over the last few months. So, there are some exchanges with a good reputation and also some very good cold storage practices to protect users coins.

Speculation is part of any market, no matter what platform is used, so let's just hug some of the price movers and appreciate the fact that they too have a small contribution to how we spend our coins and how we support our merchant networks. Tongue

pooya87

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Quote from: jseverson on July 22, 2019, 01:21:39 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on July 21, 2019, 10:04:34 AM

And what happens when these speculators push the price down and you have to pay more for your taco? Do you wait for the prices to stabilize or spend some anyway?
This is the well known dilemma we are facing every day. By we I mean the people who count their money and actually plan their savings and expenses. I know a few guys who regretted spending their bitcoins. Once one of my friends borrowed cash from me and promised to pay me back in bitcoin. By the time that happened bitcoin was worth at least 20% more and you can imagine that he had wasn't too happy.

Well, you live with it. Volatility is a double-edged sword. Also, it's not like Bitcoin would be stable without speculators. It could even be more volatile if they exit, considering lower market cap = higher volatility.

Right now, I'd say more users of Bitcoin is better, regardless of what they bring to the table.

the problem with bitcoin price volatility stems from the small size of the market not the existence of speculators. and when i say "market" it is basically the handful centralized exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken, Gemeni, Bitstamp and bitfinex where the price is decided. since these exchanges still have moderately small orderbooks with not enough bids and asks in them, whenever there is a surge in trades the price moves fast in one direction hence creating the volatility.
the solution would be to increase the size of these markets. it can be done with more adoption but also if these exchanges become more secure so that people feel safer trading and leaving open orders.

Fundamentals Of

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I get to regularly spend my Bitcoins in paying regular bills mostly. I do that regardless of whether Bitcoin's price is high or not. In a way that is my contribution as to the actual use of BTC and therefore the encouragement also to business owners, virtual or physical, to continue accepting BTC payments because there are certain people who conveniently use it. But the prices, constantly moving up and down, is really a concern. It does not matter if the movement is upward. As you said, you get to spend lesser amount. But if it goes down low, you may also get to spend double.

Moiyah

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Supporting bitcoin like that, I admire you for doing that. Not all may use their coins to buy some foods and drinks because of the fees and other concerns though. But in your case, your thinking is different and spending your coins with merchants as a support is a good step. I also love a speculators as they may contribute to the price hike of bitcoin but sadly, I do not have much coins to spend as yours.

Gi01

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In my personal opinion, speculators in the Bitcoin ecosystem are the major contributors for either a raise or drop in the market value of Bitcoin. They cause people to either sell all their Bitcoin or more than half of their total bitcoin they have as a risk precaution to minimize the amount of income lost.

Xalata

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I believe in Bitcoin very much. Now that the price has fallen below $9,500, I believe the price will rise up to about $12,000 before the year ends. I want to keep holding the coin till it rises.

Xalata

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The speculators are not always right. At times following them is very difficult and can be misleading. Make every investment decision yourself so you won't blame anyone if things turn out wrongly.

tippytoes

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on July 28, 2019, 11:07:57 AM

Well done explanation!

I also think of that practice to support our fellow Crypto friends. There are merchants who really support Bitcoin and I love the way they value customers and the Crypto market. If we support them then I think they will grow and will be a living testimony that Crypto can work effectively.

I think we can encourage our local merchants to do that also because they can easily convert it to fiat using an application in our country.

The number of merchants will grow in the next coming years because they will realize the benefits derived from using this technology. Maybe for now, their main reason why they are still hesitant is volatility. But sooner or later, this bottleneck will be addressed.

JPSelzer

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It makes sense. This is true, if bitcoin is expensive, people will be more willing to spend it. It is good that in your country many sellers accept bitcoin, this is certainly very good news.

BitcoinPanther

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Well done explanation!

I also think of that practice to support our fellow Crypto friends. There are merchants who really support Bitcoin and I love the way they value customers and the Crypto market. If we support them then I think they will grow and will be a living testimony that Crypto can work effectively.

I think we can encourage our local merchants to do that also because they can easily convert it to fiat using an application in our country.

davis196

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Congrats on having the opportunity to buy food and drinks directly with bitcoin.I can't do that in my country. Cheesy

Perhaps the merchants,from whom you are buying the food and drinks gets angry every time the bitcoin price goes down.
Anyway,the crypto market exists because of the speculators.Without them,the market would have been dead by now.

Genamant

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 21, 2019, 07:30:30 AM

I just realized speculators add some value to all of us, when they cause spikes in the price. I am a hoarder through and through, but I like to support Bitcoin merchants by buying and paying with bitcoin for some food and drinks on a daily basis. This is the only way to make sure that there would be a continuous demand for coins, if we "feed" the merchants that supports us.

So my strategy has always been to use +/- 20% of all the coins I buy... and most of these coins are spend daily on food and drinks. I buy the odd hamburger and chips or Taco and drinks at a local street food merchant that accepts Bitcoin.

This gets me to the point of my topic and that is that speculators can have a positive influence on my spending habits and the amount of coins that I spend. If they push up the price, I get to spend less coins. A Taco and Cooldrink cost about say 0.0004 BTC today and when they drive up the price, I can spend less coins the next day, when that same food costs say 0.0003 BTC Roll Eyes

Some people stop spending coins, when the price is too low and that is bad for the whole Bitcoin ecosystem.

Some people hate these speculators, but I love it when they push up the price and I can spend less coins. Grin

what country do you live in buddy? i am pretty jealous about that ,anyways who would not want to spend less on any item or service you pay for.
i get your point plus the possibility of encouraging some people to do the same thing makes the scene much better

Kakmakr

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on July 21, 2019, 02:45:23 PM

With this thinking you can just as easily reach the opposite conclusion that speculators are bad, because they can Bitcoin to go down and you have to spend more of it to buy hamburgers. The real truth is that speculators aren't the one's who cause volatility, they simply participate in it. The reason of volatility is in fact lack of speculators (low volume) and overall uncertainty due to Bitcoin still being new and not massively adopted technology. Communist countries tried to remove speculators and look what happened to their economy without free markets and its price discovery.

Agreed, but you need to manage the influence they have, to your advantage. We will for example convert our "food allowance" when the price is low and then cash out for a profit and use the profit to buy some food. Alternatively, we would buy BTC and just skip the conversion and just wait for the price to increase, before we start spending.

So, you might get a lot more out of your "food allowance" than simply the amount that was paid to you in Fiat. We had some instances where the price dropped after we bought some BTC, but we always keep some Fiat on the side, to prevent a situation where you do not have enough money to buy the food. Grin

enogheghase123

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 21, 2019, 07:30:30 AM

I just realized speculators add some value to all of us, when they cause spikes in the price. I am a hoarder through and through, but I like to support Bitcoin merchants by buying and paying with bitcoin for some food and drinks on a daily basis. This is the only way to make sure that there would be a continuous demand for coins, if we "feed" the merchants that supports us.

So my strategy has always been to use +/- 20% of all the coins I buy... and most of these coins are spend daily on food and drinks. I buy the odd hamburger and chips or Taco and drinks at a local street food merchant that accepts Bitcoin.

This gets me to the point of my topic and that is that speculators can have a positive influence on my spending habits and the amount of coins that I spend. If they push up the price, I get to spend less coins. A Taco and Cooldrink cost about say 0.0004 BTC today and when they drive up the price, I can spend less coins the next day, when that same food costs say 0.0003 BTC Roll Eyes

Some people stop spending coins, when the price is too low and that is bad for the whole Bitcoin ecosystem.

Some people hate these speculators, but I love it when they push up the price and I can spend less coins. Grin

Well you seems to be concerned about the positive part of the speculators alone, offcourse well all want prices to go up so we make some few bucks. But what if these same speculators causes price to go down? what will become of you then? Huh

?

jseverson

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Quote from: coolcoinz on July 21, 2019, 10:04:34 AM

And what happens when these speculators push the price down and you have to pay more for your taco? Do you wait for the prices to stabilize or spend some anyway?
This is the well known dilemma we are facing every day. By we I mean the people who count their money and actually plan their savings and expenses. I know a few guys who regretted spending their bitcoins. Once one of my friends borrowed cash from me and promised to pay me back in bitcoin. By the time that happened bitcoin was worth at least 20% more and you can imagine that he had wasn't too happy.

Well, you live with it. Volatility is a double-edged sword. Also, it's not like Bitcoin would be stable without speculators. It could even be more volatile if they exit, considering lower market cap = higher volatility.

Right now, I'd say more users of Bitcoin is better, regardless of what they bring to the table.

Indrawan77

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Speculators sometime did give a good positive price movement, speculators also could attract people to invest so it is good to have a positive and enthusiastic crypto lover, and its great to keep on encourage people to used crypto unfortunately not all countries support crypto yet

pooya87

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 21, 2019, 07:30:30 AM

Some people stop spending coins, when the price is too low and that is bad for the whole Bitcoin ecosystem.

another way of looking at this is most people start spending their coins when price goes up. in other words for these people "spending" on merchants is the alternative to "selling" on exchanges.
with that view i don't think we can say it is "bad" for bitcoin ecosystem, it is kind of a good thing actually that they decide to spend their coins to enjoy the profit instead of just dumping them on the market to get their profit out.

omone1

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 21, 2019, 07:30:30 AM

Some people stop spending coins, when the price is too low and that is bad for the whole Bitcoin ecosystem

This use to be my case, because I just thought I will be losing some money, I will then resort to spending fiat, which cost me more because of bank charges. But these days, I have outgrown that.

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