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Topic: Why inflated countries should adopt Bitcoin to help boost their economy. - page 3. (Read 676 times)

legendary
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If you interview a lot of people about Bitcoin, some would tell you it's a crypto currency used for digital transactions, some could also say it's a digital currency that operates independent of the central bank. You could also here others say it's a digital currency that could serve as an alternative to fiat currency, well they're all right in their different perspective of description.
But I will say that bitcoin is a speculative financial instrument used to make a profit on the difference between buying and selling. This is what primarily attracts all respondents (and non-respondents).

Well it might take a while before everyone accepts it as a legal tender, but it has the potential of replacing fiat money in the future.
Will everyone accept bitcoin as legal tender? That is the question. Most countries will probably allow it to be used as an investment instrument, but as a means of payment, many are preparing CBDC. I expect to see few countries with legalized bitcoin as a means of payment (countries with weak economies).

In the future there will be no paper money. From the word. At all. Only digital surrogates, like CBDC, will be used.

Bitcoin have a lot of benefits and could affect a countries economy positively due to it's transparency and inflation hedge, however my major point of focus is on inflation.
The economy of any country can be positively influenced only by production (of something in demand) or raw materials. If the country has a weak economy, then bitcoin will not save from inflation.

But Bitcoin is known for it's volatility and can serve as an inflation hedge to their  economy if only they could adopt it's use for transactions or as an Alternative to fiat.
But bitcoin's volatility within countries will have an even worse impact on the economy than inflation.
sr. member
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Bitcoin have a lot of benefits and could affect a countries economy positively due to it's transparency and inflation hedge, however my major point of focus is on inflation.
1. It is the fastest way to combat inflation, due to it's limited supply, making it more scarce and costlier, which could help strengthen a countries economy.
2. Bitcoin has a transaction cost making it easier for financial industries and traders to carry out transactions without worrying about high cost of transaction fees.
3. It's transaction rate is quicker and can help, business men, traders and individuals transact very quickly.
4. If a government accepts Bitcoin as a alternative to fiat
it could make currency exchange effortlessly and it cannot be influenced by corrupt governments officials.
5. I've seen no reason why some countries would be fighting against Bitcoin instead of adopting it into their system, I think any country doing that is fighting a lost fight and would be forced to accept it on the long run.

You got all those points right, Bitcoin could really be the solution for countries that are still currently fighting inflation. But I think there is another issue, first is the infrastructure, Bitcoin needs internet connection and at the very least a phone, and as far as I know many of the countries who are currently undergoing inflation is poor/3rd world countries and they might not have the required infrastructures to encourage their people to use Bitcoin. And the second issue is the people themselves, I know that most of the people who live in those country and especially the consumer is young people, but I think there are many business owners are seniors, for those seniors who never heard of Bitcoin or Crypto it would be difficult for them to move on, even if the want to, and before that they also need to be convinced that Bitcoin is safe to use.
sr. member
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Inflation is really normal because it's what been expected by the government, inflation means there are many people spend their money and this make the economy circulation works. But high inflation rate is a problem, deflation i.e. the declines in goods and services prices, is actually bad for the government because many people tend to hold their money instead of spend it.
Inflation happens in all nations, just better or worse, but it is everywhere.

Governments and central banks are not able to solve inflation of their fiat currencies. They print money, tighten interest rate later but after all they can not control inflation, just sometimes speed it up, sometimes reduce the inflation rate but generally the trend of inflation is up.

It causes terrible decreases of their fiat currencies' purchasing powers.

Purchasing Power of the U.S. Dollar Over Time.

Quote
Accepting Bitcoin as legal tender isn't a solution since vast majority are prefer to use fiat (take a look to El Salvador).
Only Bitcoin investors will be happy to receive Bitcoin as their payments for salary, customer purchase. If they are not investors, they surely feel inconvenient with Bitcoin payment, transaction fee, price volatility.
hero member
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Inflation is really normal because it's what been expected by the government, inflation means there are many people spend their money and this make the economy circulation works. But high inflation rate is a problem, deflation i.e. the declines in goods and services prices, is actually bad for the government because many people tend to hold their money instead of spend it.

Accepting Bitcoin as legal tender isn't a solution since vast majority are prefer to use fiat (take a look to El Salvador).
legendary
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While I understand why we should root for Bitcoin being accepted and even embraced for the population of countries which experiment high inflation, in reality things are not as ideal as we could assume. I have lived in a highly inflated economy for a long time, actually this country went through hyperinflation for some years, starting in the 2015 and while it is true many adopted Bitcoin to protect their money, most of people here adopted to save their money in stablecoins, soon as they got popularized in exchanges like Binance and Coinbase.
In the time being, it is possible here in this country to walk into a store and pay ones purchases using stablecoins, through centralized wallets like the one implemented on Binance (Binance Pay) or even though on-chain transactions. On the other hand, Bitcoin is not used as often as a way to transmit value, but rather as a way to invest and especulate in the long term.
Maybe, if in the future people get more educated about the benefits of Bitcoin second layer solutions like the lightning network, it will be possible for us as a commercial country/society to start replacing Fiat backed tokens with micro-transactions using satoshis, until now that is how things are and we must face it.

At least, it is a better alternative than seeing one's savings going down the drain because the reckless decisions of the central bank and the dumb but powerful demagogs in the presidency.
sr. member
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OP, how many countries has even adopted Bitcoin as a legal tender talk more of using it as inflation hedge, does bitcoin act as hedge of inflation on a large scale, this digital asset is very much volatile in nature making it almost impossible to combat inflation on high side, another fact you need to put into consideration is that most of this inflated country government are not ready to even think of allowing bitcoin to be adopted fully by institution on a large scale because of their selfish interest, they can only allow this presumptions to take place if they have control over this currency which we know that it is not possible for now, bitcoin despite being an inflation hedge has a limited preference to which it act, in an economical settings inflation is being tackle by more local productions and effective fiscal planning.
legendary
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It could be beneficial in several ways because.
1. It is the fastest way to combat inflation, due to it's limited supply, making it more scarce and costlier, which could help strengthen a countries economy.

Nope! No! Not! Niet!

The moment a country  that suffers from high inflation will try to buy Bitcoins with it's worthless inflated fiat for which there will be no demand it will just trigger higher inflation, then higher inflation, till their banknotes will be so useless they won't be able to pay with 100 trucks of it for the fee of a tx!
Read into this first:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic

2. Bitcoin has a transaction cost making it easier for financial industries and traders to carry out transactions without worrying about high cost of transaction fees.

Nope! Not! Niet!
You haven't made a transaction lately, haven't you  Wink?

Stop treating Bitcoin as a solution for a global or even national economy, Bitcoin works great for individual purposes, at macro levels it loses a shit ton of its advantages as those are simply not applicable anymore!
full member
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Countries with poor economy and also other infrastructures like politics, laws will need to resolve those problems first.

Bitcoin can not, never be able to help such countries to boost their economy and it was not created and designed to do this. In reality, after many years since 2009, even Bitcoin already is no longer a baby, matured enough, got better adoption, at the moment it does not have that power to fix national economical, financial problems. It will not have that power in future too, forget about it.
You have said what I feel is the reality that many Bitcoin lovers have not understood. Bitcoin might seem so nice for countries to adopt but in reality, it has its peculiarities and challenges especially when put to test  as payment solution to the ordinary citizens who may not have the knowledge to use Bitcoin and also protect themselves from theft. Think about the aged, the children and the disabled, fiat will be far easier for them than Bitcoin. This is why I think adopting Bitcoin by countries will be feasible if it work side by side with fiat payment systems. This way, it will become a thing of preference for the citizen and also make it more democratic.
I agree, it doesn't mean that if a country fully adopts the technology of crypto currency, or bitcoin to be specific, the country or its people will prosper in life or the country will become more powerful in terms of economy. The thing is, if a country fully adopts and implements crypto currency into their system without proper preparation and discussion about crypto currency, they might experience problems, especially since not all people could be expected to understand a complex thing as crypto currency. Do you think all people will have the patience and will to learn bitcoin despite their capabilities? What I can say is that yes, bitcoin or crypto could help a country if adopted, but it will take a long time before it does because, for sure, there will be a lot of trials and errors in implementing that technology. Maybe for now, bitcoin or crypto currency could boost those individuals who are involved in crypto currency.
hero member
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As crypto enthusiasts, we love Bitcoin and want to see it as a legal tender. But we always consider Bitcoin as a currency, and a few also consider it an asset. I agree with both; primarily, it's a currency, and when we store it, we may also consider it an asset since it has a store value. In this perspective, I don't think Bitcoin could play a role in reducing the inflation of a country. Most of the inflation happens due to corruption. So Bitcoin won't stop the corruption or war. Bitcoin could just serve as a currency, even if it becomes legal tender. Trading Bitcoin will be easier, but due to the high transaction fees, merchants will face difficulties accepting Bitcoin. However, we want Bitcoin to become legal tender so we can use it everywhere. 

Exactly I think OP is mistaken when he actually said a country in inflation can be saved by using bitcoin as legal tender yes bitcoin is an hedge against inflation but only on one aspect which is to curb excess supply of the fiat currency which usually leads to the devaluation of the currency Bitcoin fixed supply can definitely safe that. But there are many ways that get countries into inflation like the high demand of products and goods or low supply or manufacturing capacity by commpanies due to raw materials shortages. This are definitely not a legal tender problem that bitcoin can solve
This, there are some countries out there facing a challenging situation when it comes to their economies, but this cannot be fixed so easily, if that was the case then I would expect economists on the country figuring out sooner or later the way to solve their issues in that particular way, and while bitcoin is without a good tool for the individual investor to deal with the high inflation they are suffering in their country, it is not possible for a government to do the same.
hero member
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I feel as though I should point out an important point about macroeconomics here.

Inflation is really bad for the economy. It makes it hard for business to predict the prices they should charge, and puts the squeeze on average workers when their salaries don't keep up with inflation. Periods of high inflation are associated with economic instability and political unrest.

But as bad as inflation is for the economy, there is something far worse than inflation: deflation.

Deflation, in short, is a total disaster for an economy because every consumer will suddenly be incentivized to stop spending any money, leading the a massive contraction in GDP.

This is why no country in the world is on any sort of "gold standard" or anything equivalent.

And I get that we're just talking theoretically here when discussing replacing sovereign currencies with Bitcoin (because I think we all know it would never happen for a number of reasons), but if by some miracle a country tried it, they would instantly wreck their economy.

Now, lets be clear: most people don't envision replacing a sovereign currency with a digital one, but rather they usually mean to use a digital currency as a more streamlined means of transacting in their sovereign currency. (For the Haypenny system, we actually just let people trade in "USDE" or "USD equivalent" to make it easier for them to work with).

But make no mistake, if a country switched to Bitcoin to replace their own currency, it would be an absolute disaster.




Honestly you are misunderstanding some things there. The idea that deflation is disastrous comes from the fact that deflation happens BECAUSE OF economic collapse. If there is an economic collapse that means people don't have money to spend, so they spend less, so there is less demand for things, so prices go down (and therefore the value of the currency goes up in relation to consumer goods) and you get deflation. But its the result of an economic collapse, not the cause.


Also, to point out the obvious, the reason money being linked to gold is called a "gold standard" is because many nations did this! You act like it never happened. The gold standard ended, which means it used to literally be the standard. It never caused economic collapses simply by existing, otherwise it never would have become the standard. The reason why no country in the world is on a gold standard ANY MORE is because politicians realized they have far more control and power when they are literally in charge of the monetary supply. I'm not saying I know what would happen economically if say countries started adopting a bitcoin standard (and I don't think that is something that will ever actually happen), but the idea that using a hard currency rather than a weak inflationary currency would cause economic collapse is honestly just modern monetary propaganda to make people think having a weak currency that gives govt/central bank tons of extra power is the only sort of monetary standard that could work. When obviously history shows that claim to be a complete lie.


There are some things that are better about being on a hard currency standard (like all nations used to be), and some things that are better about being on a weak currency standard (like all nations are today). It's not that one is good and one is bad. They each have good parts and bad parts. I think the main problem is that since the gold standard was abandoned the world hasn't had a hard currency to use as an outlet for the good things it provides. Once Bitcoin becomes massively widespread globally so anyone can save and spend it with ease that's essentially, as someone people have called it, an escape hatch that people can choose to get away from weak currencies.


There would be bad economic consequences if either inflation or deflation got out of control. But while hyperinflation occurs due to horrible monetary policy by the politicans and central bankers who just keep printing money because they have to in order to stay ahead of their debt, I believe a deflationary spiral would only happen if an economy fell into a depression that it just couldn't get out of. Because think about it, the only reason people are going to not buy goods is if they literally can't because they don't have jobs. People having jobs is going to balance out a deflationary currency because people want to buy things and they are not just going to stop buying things when they have the money to buy things. So it isn't deflation at all that is the problem. It is economic collapse that is the problem. Whether a currency is weak (fiat) or strong (bitcoin) people are going to spend money they have. I think the main difference is that with fiat currency the economy is debt driven because printing money and handing it out as debt is how the economy grows, while with a hard currency the money is limited so there is slower growth because its much riskier to take out debt when the currency is strong.

I'm no expert in these things but it seems to me inflationary currency leads to high growth but very unstable economies, the must eventually collapse because govts are by human nature going to print more money and continuously wrack up more and more debt until its unsustainable and the economy reaches a break point (which is what a lot of people are afraid is going to happen in the coming decades, which I beleive people refer to as the "great monetary reset"). While being on a deflationary currency standard would mean less growth but a much more stable economy. People taking far fewer risks, so slower growth, but also much fewer monetary-related problems because the base monetary unit increases in value so saving is possible without taking on risk, and things can actually stay affordable rather than being destined to become more and more unaffordable.

That's my take, which may or may not be totally right. But for sure your statement that a deflationary currency would automatically cause economic collapse is totally wrong, as explained at the top of this comment.
sr. member
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Countries with poor economy and also other infrastructures like politics, laws will need to resolve those problems first.

Bitcoin can not, never be able to help such countries to boost their economy and it was not created and designed to do this. In reality, after many years since 2009, even Bitcoin already is no longer a baby, matured enough, got better adoption, at the moment it does not have that power to fix national economical, financial problems. It will not have that power in future too, forget about it.
You have said what I feel is the reality that many Bitcoin lovers have not understood. Bitcoin might seem so nice for countries to adopt but in reality, it has its peculiarities and challenges especially when put to test  as payment solution to the ordinary citizens who may not have the knowledge to use Bitcoin and also protect themselves from theft. Think about the aged, the children and the disabled, fiat will be far easier for them than Bitcoin. This is why I think adopting Bitcoin by countries will be feasible if it work side by side with fiat payment systems. This way, it will become a thing of preference for the citizen and also make it more democratic.
hero member
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I would only agree about being an individual investor and seeing it as a good hedge against inflation. But if it's about the government leaning towards it as their hedge against inflation, I don't think that most of them are going to thrive. Especially that you've tackling this with countries that are have high numbers of inflation, it's not going to solve their problems with it. Yes, it's easy to say that Bitcoin is a deflationary asset but they just can't put their country's wealth into this asset and wait until it pumps and sell. That's not how it goes for a government for it to benefit from investing in Bitcoin. Actually with what the El Salvador is a commendable thing even if Bukele has seen that there will be a lot of backlashes and they seem not yet prepared for it. Look at the Central African Republic, I think they've declared Bitcoin as a legal tender but then later on reverted that decision, IIRC.
hero member
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As crypto enthusiasts, we love Bitcoin and want to see it as a legal tender. But we always consider Bitcoin as a currency, and a few also consider it an asset. I agree with both; primarily, it's a currency, and when we store it, we may also consider it an asset since it has a store value. In this perspective, I don't think Bitcoin could play a role in reducing the inflation of a country. Most of the inflation happens due to corruption. So Bitcoin won't stop the corruption or war. Bitcoin could just serve as a currency, even if it becomes legal tender. Trading Bitcoin will be easier, but due to the high transaction fees, merchants will face difficulties accepting Bitcoin. However, we want Bitcoin to become legal tender so we can use it everywhere. 

Exactly I think OP is mistaken when he actually said a country in inflation can be saved by using bitcoin as legal tender yes bitcoin is an hedge against inflation but only on one aspect which is to curb excess supply of the fiat currency which usually leads to the devaluation of the currency Bitcoin fixed supply can definitely safe that. But there are many ways that get countries into inflation like the high demand of products and goods or low supply or manufacturing capacity by commpanies due to raw materials shortages. This are definitely not a legal tender problem that bitcoin can solve
legendary
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Things are not so simple to be on the same page as adoption; on the other hand, inflation is not an exclusive issue for poor countries; the American example is the best.

On the other hand, it is not necessary for what exists to disappear, in reference to the current financial system, what is needed is for the laws to be fair with bitcoin and there is no attempt to govern its use to the classist interests of the old financial system.

Ah!!, Just because bitcoin is deflationary does not mean that it is "medicine" for economies that suffer from inflation. (Imho)
member
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I feel as though I should point out an important point about macroeconomics here.

Inflation is really bad for the economy. It makes it hard for business to predict the prices they should charge, and puts the squeeze on average workers when their salaries don't keep up with inflation. Periods of high inflation are associated with economic instability and political unrest.

But as bad as inflation is for the economy, there is something far worse than inflation: deflation.

Deflation, in short, is a total disaster for an economy because every consumer will suddenly be incentivized to stop spending any money, leading the a massive contraction in GDP.

This is why no country in the world is on any sort of "gold standard" or anything equivalent.

And I get that we're just talking theoretically here when discussing replacing sovereign currencies with Bitcoin (because I think we all know it would never happen for a number of reasons), but if by some miracle a country tried it, they would instantly wreck their economy.

Now, lets be clear: most people don't envision replacing a sovereign currency with a digital one, but rather they usually mean to use a digital currency as a more streamlined means of transacting in their sovereign currency. (For the Haypenny system, we actually just let people trade in "USDE" or "USD equivalent" to make it easier for them to work with).

But make no mistake, if a country switched to Bitcoin to replace their own currency, it would be an absolute disaster.

legendary
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As crypto enthusiasts, we love Bitcoin and want to see it as a legal tender. But we always consider Bitcoin as a currency, and a few also consider it an asset. I agree with both; primarily, it's a currency, and when we store it, we may also consider it an asset since it has a store value. In this perspective, I don't think Bitcoin could play a role in reducing the inflation of a country. Most of the inflation happens due to corruption. So Bitcoin won't stop the corruption or war. Bitcoin could just serve as a currency, even if it becomes legal tender. Trading Bitcoin will be easier, but due to the high transaction fees, merchants will face difficulties accepting Bitcoin. However, we want Bitcoin to become legal tender so we can use it everywhere. 
sr. member
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Accepting bitcoin as a legal tender wouldn't change the economy state of a country. Moreover, bitcoin must not be a legal tender before citizens will benefit from it, as long as bitcoin is not banned in a country, and it is legal to use it, then it will still serve its purpose. You should also note that it will be impossible for bitcoin to replace fiat in future, because it is limited in supply and cannot be used daily by everyone with the large number of population in the world.

I also don't really see that happening and whether there is possibility of it happening , it will not be anytime soon. We cannot foresight what Bitcoin will look like in the next 100 years however following the decentralized technology in which the bitcoin is designed , it will be very difficult for it to replace the centralized system since it can also function effectively as an alternative.

Quote
Bitcoin was created to be an alternative payment method to fiat, which is that purpose that it will serve. El Salvador adopted bitcoin as a legal tender, it has not change their economy, but it will do that in the long run, since the have the country's fiat reserve in bitcoin. Bitcoin is a hedge to inflation, but you should also think about the high volatile nature of bitcoin. Bitcoin is still facing a challenge of high transaction fee that do happens from those garbage that uses bitcoin blockchain, that will be the worst for bitcoin users when those token pop up again.

I also don't think having bitcoin as a legal tender is enough to change the economic hardships bedeviling any country, rather it can bring about succor to the worsened financial crisis of the country which will sort of be a short-term plans to lessen the inflation and depreciation in the local 'fiat' currency of such country. The country can also decide to use the equivalent of the Bitcoin for his forex market in the sense that any money coming in and out of the country will be valued by the Bitcoin exchange rates whereas transactions and businesses done within the domestic market will be carried out by the local 'fiat' currencies.
legendary
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I have some thoughts on Bitcoin and inflation. I agree that Bitcoin should be legal, so that people can avoid losing their savings to inflation by investing in Bitcoin if they choose to do so. But I also understand why some countries can be especially vulnerable when they are hit by inflation, and they might introduce restrictive policies to help stabilize their local fiat. It can be reasonable and very important because salaries, taxes (and thus the budget for all sorts of essential services) are usually in fiat, so if inflation gets too high and doesn't stabilize, lots of people and the economy get hurt.
Bitcoin, in the meantime, can grow a lot, but if a lot of people start using it, it can create a congestion, with the fees spiking and transactions getting stuck. For a country that's already struggling economically, such complications can be an even bigger nightmare than inflation.
hero member
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I totally agree Bitcoin can be helpful for a country's economy when adopted as public long term investment by the government. However, not as the sole investment, neither as official main currency. Look the example of El Salvador: they did the adoption in the right format.

Even though the digital currency is legal tender there, Bitcoin didn't replace dollar, which remained as the main currency of the country. At same time, they took advantage of the best Bitcoin could offer to the country. They have been buying the dip, that is, investing considerable amounts of money from the public vaults in BTC along past years and now that we are approaching a new bull run, they are ready to profit from their investments.

Of course they risked money, but it was done in a calculated way, what means it wasn't going to completely compromise the country's economy if something went wrong. On the other hand, if they had adopted Bitcoin as the exclusive currency of the country, I fear it could end really badly, because Bitcoin is heavily volatile and prone to manipulation by whales. It's crazyness for a country to put all their tickets in BTC, even if it's done with a good intention of fighting inflation back.
legendary
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I disagree to the points raised by OP. Bitcoin is not built to boost any country's economy. It is not built to handle mass transactions. It is also not built to replace the mainstream economy. Bitcoin is a currency that thrives in parallel economy. Its purpose will be ruined if Bitcoin is adopted by centralised entities and forces people to use it. Bitcoin honestly cannot handle a mainstream transaction volume. It will just jam the network and push the transaction fees to an an unacceptable level where the existing users will also suffer.
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