Topic: Why is Bitcoin the Dumbest Thing Ever Invented - page 7. (Read 2676 times)

Resources or assets have value. And assets either exist or they don't. Debt behind fiat currencies factually exists - every unit of fiat currency is issued as loan or bond. Debt is both liability and asset because the fulfilment of liability by one side is benefit to the other. So, faith has nothing to do with assets. In the Bitcoin system there's no resource or asset so there's nothing to assign value to. It is indeed like play money for kids. You create units by declaration, represent them with numbers on a medium and then exchange. The same is with monopoly money. Spending enormous amounts of energy on this is crazy. Paying $70K for such a unit is even crazier. You're giving up 70 thousand asset units in order to hold 1 non-asset  or monopoly-money-like unit. If that's not crazy then nothing is crazy.

The so-called crypto-currencies, such as Bitcoin, are exactly like our hypothetical crypto-post. From the outside, Bitcoin looks similar to traditional currencies. It is a system that has units which are transferred between people. If you have a bank account or a banknote, what you have is some name such as USD, EUR, or GBP, and a number that represents the quantity of units in a banking system. If you have a Bitcoin account you also have a name - BTC and a number that represents the quantity of units in the Bitcoin system. But the catch is that the units in the Bitcoin system are empty. They are like envelopes and boxes in our crypto-post. They are containers that hold nothing.

On the other hand, units of traditional currencies are containers that hold something. They hold a debt-based resource. Namely, these units are created as loans of commercial banks to individuals and companies or as purchases of government bonds by central banks. So if you have for example dollars you have something that the US government and millions of people need for satisfying debt owed to the US banking system. If your neighbor has a $500K loan with a mortgage on his house, while you have $500K you have something that can save them from the mortgage. In short, you have an asset, a resource needed by your neighbor. Just like letters, documents, and products held by envelopes and boxes are resources needed by people.

Given that units in the Bitcoin system are not created by issuing loans or purchasing bonds, they are empty. They are like envelopes and boxes that hold nothing. Often, people say that Bitcoin is simple and thus better than a complex banking system that manages fiat currencies. But of course Bitcoin is simple given that it manages empty units. Fiat currency units hold debt and managing debt is complex. It includes credit assessments, contracts, collaterals, foreclosures, etc. Implementing those requires both people and infrastructure. With Bitcoin, the author just wrote a protocol that tells people: "You have 10 units", "you have 0.5 units", "you have 50 units", etc. But units of what? A company? A tangible asset like a precious metal? An intangible asset like a patent, copyright or license? No, none of that. In the Bitcoin system, people have units of literally nothing, units that are empty, that hold no asset. That is why it is so simple. Managing empty units is simple. But extremely dumb. Just like it would be managing empty envelopes and boxes in our hypothetical crypto-post. With Bitcoin, such managing even requires the consumption of enormous amounts of electricity. That's why Bitcoin is the dumbest thing ever invented.
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Is this person still engaged and steadfast in their belief that Bitcoin holds no value?  Seriously?


Says who?  Who is the sole arbitrator of the term "asset"? 


Unit of debt is fiat currency, and unit of fiat currency is what?  Debt?   


There is no tangible asset, commodity, or physical currency known as the "US dollar".  Its value relies solely on faith.  Nevertheless, it holds a certain value, albeit one that may go unnoticed by many. 

Op I couldn't finish reading your post because of how lengthy it is but I still don't understand what you mean by Why is Bitcoin the dumbest thing ever invented......Like are you 100% for real,I think if you were 100% real you wouldn't have been on this forum in the first place because this forum is all about bitcoin.Bitcoin is one of the amazing thing ever invented.Bitcoin is amazing because it's transparent, accessible and it's users are financial free from third party.Bitcoin being volatile it's what makes it so unique unlike some stable coins that don't pump.Op I think you need a finance advice on Bitcoin and nothing more.

You don't get it do you? When you just say "asset" you're saying nothing. Asset is generic term. You must name what actual resource is held by a unit. For instance: unit of gold, unit of debt(fiat money), unit of a company (share), units of oil, wheat, etc. If I were to ask you: "unit of WHAT is BTC", you wouldn't be able to provide an answer because BTC is an empty unit. It's literally like taking a piece of paper and write down that: "Alice owns 5 units of ABC". Then I ask: what exactly is ABC, and you say "an asset" or "a commodity", or money. You're forced to use generic terms because ABC is mere declaration. No actual asset, commodity or money exists under the name ABC. The number 5 represents empty units. Units that hold nothing. That's Bitcoin in a nutshell. It's basically like play money for kids, or monopoly money. You have monetary units that are exchanged for playing purposes but they are empty. They hold no resource or asset.

That's not crazy, but rather funny because I myself have never made a comparison between physical assets and crypto assets, nor the way of sending physical objects or goods with sending assets in crypto. Because these two things are definitely different, although sometimes there are people who make examples of physical goods when they want to give a few examples to people who are learning about crypto. So the funny thing is when someone makes a comparison between digital transactions and goods transactions that have a physical element.

Your point being? Hate does nothing to bitcoin anyway. Hating bitcoin isn't really a big factor as to why someone should stay in this forum, I mean what does a person like OP would get out of this? Does he get off when he/she/they stay in the forum hating on bitcoin and people that cares about bitcoin? If that's the case then by all means stay but if it's not then I don't think there's no need to justify what OP's doing because there's no justification to hating without any valid reason or a sensible at the minimum. See, you can't even understand it yourself and you're defending OP, what's with you dude?

I don't agree with you.  Bitcoin, as a financial asset, unlike fiat money (dollars, euros, yuan, rupees, etc.) has a creation cost. 
The cost of Bitcoin is the cost of electricity, depreciation, ASIC repair and maintenance, and technical staff salaries.  And every year the cost of Bitcoin grows and grows.  But this is not the main thing....
Bitcoin is of great importance as a generally accepted decentralized protocol for the transfer of values ​​in the virtual space.  This is what determines the enormous importance of Bitcoin in the financial sector, and despite the large number of different cryptocurrencies, there is no analogue to Bitcoin. 
Because Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency, and all other cryptocurrencies are its copies to one degree or another.

Hahaha, this is crazy. So, you order and pay for an iPhone from Amazon, but receive an empty package. When you complain the sender replies that the package is not actually empty. Your payment act "assigned" iPhone to it. They also tell you that you should go and learn how crypto-delivery service works. Hahaha. I think you should seek professional help for mental health.

Yes, the moment the box was assigned value and liquidity makes it stopped being empty. When you open it in the blockchain now, you will know what you called empty is no longer empty anymore as block values are constantly being assigned. Bitcoin is a complete system that will do all that fiats can do (if allowed) with no exception. This is possible because it is an asset, a digital one for that matter. But this digital/virtual denotation is where you are missing it, or perhaps you just do not want to accept it.

Whether you like it or not, there are classes of assets, and the digital asset is one of them, which will not do less of any asset if you operate it through the right channel. Bitcoin was empty, it is not empty anymore if that will suit you in the plain term and at this point I urge you not to rely on your understanding of this alone. For it to be digital/virtual doesn't make it less of an asset, it is indeed an asset, not until you see an asset physically before it can be valuable or be used for particular physical projects like what Gold, Diamond, Oil, etc are being used for. Once they can still purchase those physical assets (Gold, Diamond, Oil etc) that you mentioned, they are not less valuable regardless of the form they are.

Nothing is empty in Bitcoin anymore, values and purposes are being signed regularly, you should go and learn how the blockchain works even if we try to neglect the trading aspect that proves it valuable. And this is a reality, my friend, it is never delusional.

It seems like you are very skeptical of this but, that's okay, I just want to ask what about fiat whose value is agreed, Is BTC no value and just an empty box if you buy it today for example with a face value of $ 500 only, then you test selling on the exchange you buy at the same time whether your money will be lost to the earth in your account,  If possible, do it today.

I'm probably not very technical and like to just get straight to real applications.

So basically, your argument is that an empty box that someone sold you for $70K is not actually empty. The trading act magically make a valuable product, an asset to appear in it? Although when you open it you see with your own eyes it is still empty. You know how this is called? Being naive, gullible and delusional.

You are still moving around the same circle, but on one fault, and that is the fact that you do not accept Bitcoin for what it is, and neither do you agree/believe that there can be a digital asset. This is archaic!

Mind you, an asset is an asset whether you like it or not and in case you do not know, Bitcoin is being used as collateral these days, and maybe it will quench most of the questions you asked thus; "If I were to ask you what asset is held by the BTC unit what would you say? Debt? Equity of a company? A picture like Mona Lisa? A patent, copyright, software license? Wheat, silver, oil?" In as much as an entity can fulfil financial obligations, you do not call it empty anymore. Of course, unless you do not even know what you are talking about.

Fine, Bitcoin was created as an empty unit, which I so much agree with you, but the empty unit was later assigned /units/value, which makes it not empty again (digital or not). That value is the liquidity in Bitcoin which gives it the power to settle debts which you always buttress upon without showing concern that Bitcoin can clear debts as well. Just like a human being, you become dead when your spirit leaves you, but when the spirit enters you again, you are alive and have become a living creature that can function perfectly like any other human being.

All these fiat assets you called out are so (living as in my human example) because of people's relevance and liquidity, once that is withdrawn from them, they become irrelevant (dead as in my human example). The same is applicable to Bitcoin, people's liquidity makes an asset worthy, and the moment people withdraw their money, it becomes worthless. So why do you now want us to segregate Bitcoin even as it has the value of people's money and can fulfil financial obligations like fiat assets?

Meaby Bitcoin is Almighty God, who knows. Let's be serious. Collectible boxes are something that people can see and touch. When they buy them they can explore them with their senses. When you buy Bitcoin the system just tells you that you have xx units. And that's it. Then someone givs you money and the system tells them the same thing - they have xx units. There's nothing collectable in this. It's a simple unit-based pyramid scheme. It's literally crazy how vehemently you people try to portray this scheme as something valuable and revolutionary when in reality it's the good old investment model that utilizes new investors' funds to pay earlier participants.

You say Bitcoin units hold nothing, like empty boxes. But aren't empty boxes valuable too? Collectors pay a fortune for limited edition shoeboxes!  Maybe Bitcoin is the ultimate limited-edition digital box.  Who knows, maybe someday people will be fighting over empty Bitcoin wallets at museums!

As for the whole "non-existent asset" thing, tell that to the folks using Bitcoin for everyday transactions or those holding it as a hedge against inflation.  Maybe it's not the Mona Lisa, but scarcity and utility do hold value. You don't have to admit it, but it's a fact.

I know that you people need Freudian rationalizations, you need to play dumb to justify your purchases of empty units. But these rationalizations look pretty hilarious in the context of the OP. The distinction between a unit that holds an asset and a unit that holds nothing is obvious. If I were to ask you what asset is held by the BTC unit what would you say? Debt? Equity of a company? A picture like Mona Lisa? A patent, copyright, software license? Wheat, silver, oil? You couldn't say any of that because BTC units hold neither intangible (digital or whatever) nor tangible asset. They are literally like empty envelopes or boxes. They are containers that hold nothing. That's why you are forced to use Freudian rationalizations like the above. Just imagine the stupidity: a guy wrote a protocol to tell that you hold a non-existent asset, you paid a lot of money for that and now you comfort yourself that this is like buying Mona Lisa. Crazy. It's no wonder people view you as a cult.

I think I know where your confusion is coming from, you just do not want to accept that there is a virtual or digital asset simply because they are not what you can see with your eyes physically, but you are so wrong. First, I would like you to perish the idea that you will have to be able to touch something valuable before you can label it an asset. Ordinary papers and drawings that were worthless before are being sold for millions of dollars today, this is not because they suddenly became gold or diamond, but because people place relevance/importance on it. Take for instance the Monalisa paint, it is worth a fortune ($100m in 1962, and now over a billion dollars), but do you think the material used to paint it is worth up to $100? Nevertheless, it's being sold for millions of dollars, why? It's simple, people place a relevance on it, which makes it an asset. This principle is what stocks and even bank cheques and notes/bonds work with. There are values placed on them because liquidity is backing them up.

Also, do not think that the operations of the companies you buy their stocks is the worth of the stocks and the company itself, no, people are buying stocks of companies without having anything to do with the company in any way, and that keeps adding value to the company to the point that people can fulfil financial obligations with stocks (virtual/digital). Asset is all about people's money, and nothing more. The same goes for Bitcoin which has a market capitalization of over $1T, this is huge and many physical assets do not even have up to that and they exist as assets. Today, you may buy your Lamborgini and tell the seller you will clear the bills with a certain amount of Bitcoin. Can a valueless entity as you claim do that? Only an asset can do that just like bonds, cheques and other financial settlement means do. It is you who needs to change your orientation about the virtual/digital assets, for them to have been created empty doesn't mean they will remain empty. The moment people are moving money in to back it up and place importance on it, it becomes an asset. Besides, anything you trade in the financial market is an ASSET. Thankfully, Bitcoin is one of them.

This is like saying that an empty box is an asset. No, that what is inside the box, that what the box holds is an asset. Bitcoin box holds nothing. So there's no asset in the Bitcoin system. But understandably, people like to believe the opposite. If someone spend $70K on an empty box they obviously won't admit they bought nothing. They would say that they bought an asset. A digital gold. A precious intangible commodity. Whatever. It's a Freudian defence mechanism.

OP doesn't see that far to think about that part too much, OP just sees bitcoin and nothing else, kind of like having a myopic view on things, no consideration about other factors or other things that might be related to what OP's yapping about. It's probably just a stunt to troll forum users here in the bitcoin forum which I dare say is pretty effective at doing what it wants to do because it sure did earn the ire that OP is expecting, that's what the basic formula to do with trolling is, you mess with the people by putting up dumb statements and having the conviction to defend those dumb statements.

Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme where you make money money overnight without planning or implementing structures to enact good phase. Bitcoin have always been here to support the patient investors because they've recorded good entries on the project. We should learn to understand that bitcoin is not a get-rich quick scheme, rather we take our time to channel our focused on bitcoin and hope for promising results for ourselves. Bitcoin have made the pump and dump moves for everyone to witnessed but most people missed out due to FUD while most people also have FOMO.