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Topic: Why is China Hoarding Gold? (Read 4120 times)

legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
August 02, 2014, 02:58:28 AM
#55

China's foreign currency reserves are massive, 3.3 trillion total and about 2.2 trillion of that in USD denominated assets.  Despite their recent build up in their gold holdings (to 1000 to 3000 tons, nobody knows the exact number) they hold a lot more "paper" US dollars for every gold dollar, e.g. gold is only about 2% of their foreign currency reserves.

If China ever moved in a big way from paper USD to gold, it would have a massive effect on the market.

Even if China stops accumulating further USD, it would make a huge difference.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
'Slow and steady wins the race'
July 31, 2014, 08:27:55 PM
#54
China's foreign currency reserves are massive, 3.3 trillion total and about 2.2 trillion of that in USD denominated assets.  Despite their recent build up in their gold holdings (to 1000 to 3000 tons, nobody knows the exact number) they hold a lot more "paper" US dollars for every gold dollar, e.g. gold is only about 2% of their foreign currency reserves.

If China ever moved in a big way from paper USD to gold, it would have a massive effect on the market.
This is a very good point. Although the additional amount of gold that China is buying is huge for most people, in percentage terms of it's total asset holdings it is actually very small.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1007
July 30, 2014, 09:41:44 PM
#53
You know, what does changing to gold mean?

Nothing, in my opinion, unless VERY strict regulations are put in place.

Say I have $10 of gold, and I print 10 paper bills that can be exchanged for $1 each.

What is to stop me from printing more of them?

It's rarely explicitly stated how much a bill can be exchanged for, so I can print 20 bills, then 30, then 1,000,000...

Inflation and value don't mean a lot when backed by gold, all it means is that you can take your cash, exchange it for whatever amount of gold it's worth, since the value will keep dropping...

Gold-backed doesn't really help...
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
July 30, 2014, 04:30:36 PM
#52
China's foreign currency reserves are massive, 3.3 trillion total and about 2.2 trillion of that in USD denominated assets.  Despite their recent build up in their gold holdings (to 1000 to 3000 tons, nobody knows the exact number) they hold a lot more "paper" US dollars for every gold dollar, e.g. gold is only about 2% of their foreign currency reserves.

If China ever moved in a big way from paper USD to gold, it would have a massive effect on the market.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
July 29, 2014, 03:25:58 PM
#51
Basically China hoardes gold because it's a no lose situation for them.  Being one of the largest holders of USD debt as well as one of the largest stockpilers of gold put's them in a unique position to ultimately make a play on the USD as world reserve currency.  Just imagine Russian based oil sold for some Chinese denominated coin backed by actual gold?!  Stormy sea's on the horizon for our little Island of consumption I'm thinking.

China only missing 2 more elements replace USD.

1) A military capable of defending itself.
2) Oil reserve.

Once they have both, US will be at its mercy for economy survival.


The BRICs are missing non of this.. you have been warned, 2016 will be an interesting year.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
July 29, 2014, 03:24:39 PM
#50
You can either accept the fact it might be true that the BRICs plans to back the New Development Bank with gold or call it a crazy theory. Every single country in the BRICs has commented many times about the abuses of the IMF and America many times..  They have all called for a new reserve currency..  They launch in 2016.. 
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
July 29, 2014, 11:38:41 AM
#49
In my opinion they really want to have future world reserve currency...
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
July 29, 2014, 10:35:29 AM
#48
because they like the color of gold (Gold)

LOL. true gold?
Chinese companies may have accumulated up to 1,000 tonnes of gold for use as collateral in financing deals rather than to meet consumer demand in recent years. Most of this has been built up since 2011, when gold has been increasingly used as the basis for a variety of financial operations in China.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
July 29, 2014, 10:27:13 AM
#47
They own insane amounts of US Treasury Bills. The gold is an insurance policy against a US default.

Given the amount of T-bills that they hold, no amount of gold would be insurance.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
HODL OR DIE
July 28, 2014, 10:35:27 PM
#46
They own insane amounts of US Treasury Bills. The gold is an insurance policy against a US default.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
July 28, 2014, 08:55:51 PM
#45
I don't think they are going to establish a new world reserve currency. They are always quite happy with being only the second best. My guess is that they hoard gold just in case dollar should fall. This way their gold reserves will serve a hedge against such a possibility. No matter what currency becomes a new dollar (or even if there is none), they would always have something to exchange for it, or just directly use their gold as money.

They are happy being second best for now. Once they become a developed nation, you never know.

Thinking of the Chinese establishing a new reserve currency at this point of time is far fetched. If you have RMB, you can't even purchase capital assets in China now!!
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
July 28, 2014, 01:32:27 AM
#44

All the same China could opt for a compromise position, something like Chinese Bitcoin; a digital exchange currency backed by gold.


What is to stop them from abandoning the gold standard at a later point in time, like the US did?  Smiley

They have already abandoned the gold standard when US got off gold standard all money was truly Fiat, free floating money with no intrinsic value other than the value of the paper it is composed of. Maybe China wants to become the world reserve currency knocking the US off this position we have enjoyed for so many years. I guess they want gold so they can at least be part of a group of currencies that will compose the backing of a world currency. No gold no vote.

I don't think they are going to establish a new world reserve currency. They are always quite happy with being only the second best. My guess is that they hoard gold just in case dollar should fall. This way their gold reserves will serve a hedge against such a possibility. No matter what currency becomes a new dollar (or even if there is none), they would always have something to exchange for it, or just directly use their gold as money.
full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 100
July 27, 2014, 05:19:27 PM
#43

All the same China could opt for a compromise position, something like Chinese Bitcoin; a digital exchange currency backed by gold.


What is to stop them from abandoning the gold standard at a later point in time, like the US did?  Smiley

They have already abandoned the gold standard when US got off gold standard all money was truly Fiat, free floating money with no intrinsic value other than the value of the paper it is composed of. Maybe China wants to become the world reserve currency knocking the US off this position we have enjoyed for so many years. I guess they want gold so they can at least be part of a group of currencies that will compose the backing of a world currency. No gold no vote.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1007
July 27, 2014, 01:00:03 PM
#42
Basically China hoardes gold because it's a no lose situation for them.  Being one of the largest holders of USD debt as well as one of the largest stockpilers of gold put's them in a unique position to ultimately make a play on the USD as world reserve currency.  Just imagine Russian based oil sold for some Chinese denominated coin backed by actual gold?!  Stormy sea's on the horizon for our little Island of consumption I'm thinking.

China only missing 2 more elements replace USD.

1) A military capable of defending itself.
2) Oil reserve.

Once they have both, US will be at its mercy for economy survival.


1. The US military couldn't even conquer the Taliban, China has nuclear weapons.
2. China will end its oil dependency before the United States. (Compare their energy policies.)
This.

The US facing off against China would be a long campaign that would end up with china winning.

Let's use numbers.

If China's infantry are trained 60% as well as American forces, that's still more than double the total training that the USA has. 4,000,000*60% as opposed to 1,000,000*100%

Plus China has lots of hardware, but so does the US, so it comes down to quantity as opposed to quality. An M1 Abrams can only take so many shells before one penetrates it, especially if there are 3 tanks firing at it.

This may be a bad example, but it probably illustrates it the best.

So China could very well beat the US, but it would be a long war.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
July 27, 2014, 08:58:41 AM
#41
Basically China hoardes gold because it's a no lose situation for them.  Being one of the largest holders of USD debt as well as one of the largest stockpilers of gold put's them in a unique position to ultimately make a play on the USD as world reserve currency.  Just imagine Russian based oil sold for some Chinese denominated coin backed by actual gold?!  Stormy sea's on the horizon for our little Island of consumption I'm thinking.

China only missing 2 more elements replace USD.

1) A military capable of defending itself.
2) Oil reserve.

Once they have both, US will be at its mercy for economy survival.


1. The US military couldn't even conquer the Taliban, China has nuclear weapons.
2. China will end its oil dependency before the United States. (Compare their energy policies.)
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
July 27, 2014, 08:53:17 AM
#40
<...>

For now the vision may be greater than the reality. If China planned on pursuing this goal with Russia and Venezuela as partners, they didn't exactly pick the most reliable posse. The Russians blundered on the world stage with the situation in Ukraine, which just blossomed into a public relations nightmare when their lackey separatist rebels shot down a Malaysian airliner. Venezuela has flirted off and on with bankruptcy since 2001; so much for their team-building skills.

<...>

If you don't understand that an official investigation into the causes of the Malysian airliner downing is still going on and at the moment is far from giving definitive answers, how can we believe your other points you bring forward?
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
July 27, 2014, 08:37:10 AM
#39
Same reason anyone buy gold: they think the economy may get in trouble in the future, and they are preparing for some fiat strong devaluation. Difference is that they have the secret service and an army of people to make economic plans and collect information, and ways to e active agents.


Quote
All the same China could opt for a compromise position, something like Chinese Bitcoin; a digital exchange currency backed by gold. I'm actually surprised someone hasn't done this already and China would definitely have the resources to make that happen.



Hashdollar was a try in that direction, and was a complete failure. But also has not been launched by a major economic power.

Ecuador launched their own crypto, while turned holding , buying and selling any descentralized currency illegal
Depending of the results of the new Ecuatorian law, it may influence other countries to do similar.


http://www.coindesk.com/ecuador-bans-bitcoin-legislative-vote/

There is nothing that indicates that the new digital currency of Ecuador will have any of the characteristics of a cryptocurrency. It is highly unlikely that it will be decentralized, transparent, algorithmically-constrained, or that users will be able to control their private keys.
legendary
Activity: 2744
Merit: 1288
July 27, 2014, 07:09:01 AM
#38
They dont hoard only Gold, they also do Cotton and you will not belive, but also BTC  Shocked
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Loose lips sink sigs!
July 27, 2014, 01:20:53 AM
#37
...

Possum577

That is not what I wrote (putting 10% of our wealth into lottery tickets).  We have 11% or so in gold, not the Powerball.

I believe that gold is an excellent investment (that also provides insurance vs. .gov and bankster malfeasance).

Bitcoin is another asset class, IMO, that provides some more diversification.  But, I have less than 1% in BTC.  At this point, I trust gold more (as does China).

There is the real possibility, hard to quantify, that gold's price could go to the moon (Alice).  Some BTC commentators suggest that it too could reach nearly astronomical numbers.  My comment was that gold and BTC both shared this interesting characteristic, that they both could reach very high numbers.  But, each has a strong investment case as well even without such a quantum leap.  And if China keeps buying like they have, well, that might hasten the day when any gold you might own would be worth a lot more than now...

EDIT:

Consider taking a look at FOFOA's blog (in my link above).  That would be the equivalent of a two year sentence behind bars unless you like challenging gold reading written by a true pro.

OK,ok, fair enough. Just giving you a hard time. I'll check out the blog.
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
July 27, 2014, 01:13:35 AM
#36
Basically China hoardes gold because it's a no lose situation for them.  Being one of the largest holders of USD debt as well as one of the largest stockpilers of gold put's them in a unique position to ultimately make a play on the USD as world reserve currency.  Just imagine Russian based oil sold for some Chinese denominated coin backed by actual gold?!  Stormy sea's on the horizon for our little Island of consumption I'm thinking.

China only missing 2 more elements replace USD.

1) A military capable of defending itself.
2) Oil reserve.

Once they have both, US will be at its mercy for economy survival.
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