Topic: Why is the BitFunder SDice pass through trading so cheaply? - page 2. (Read 3427 times)

Eh, I know there was confusion.  I had to deal with the confused users personally. 

Your post is really hard to read, and not particularly on topic.  Happy to discuss in another thread if you'd like.

Cheers.

if you look at the trade history, it was almost all buys, not sells and at that time reasonable prices. no big liquidation evident. if they did, they did not change the price compared to the coinbr prices at the time.

When I looked at it, it was very clear to me. No confusion at all. I did not have to singup with bitfunder to be able to claim my shares on btct and had the option. i am told that there were almost or over 100 shareholders to track, and can understand why terra did not want to try to manually track everything with a high risks of errors. no one has complained about not getting their shares or divs due at either location. since my original plan was to claim on btct, i was glad that he went through the trouble to allow to use both than tell us where we have to go by his decision or by other shareholders votes. you state that there was confusion on how to claim where there was not. he posted on the forums, he sent emails, and bitfunder sent emails to claim explaining everything very clearly.



I was originally dead set against bitfunder, and planned to claim my shares at btct. the more I see look at each one, i see that btct is a bunch of drama.
all over the place people using it to post msgs against each other, vote each other. first I was checking the website alot, to see what was there. then as things grew, so did the drama, I got tired of trying to use the votes as a usefull reference. almost all traded assets have some kind of negative mark, mud slung in their face, and its like getting opinionated scammer votes to me.  at least on the forums before someone or something is branded ppl cant just throw numbers on their profile and leave them there for everyone to see regardless of what its for. i saw bakewell move from btct to bitfunder, and if it was for the votes as a reason, i can understand pushing to do it without shareholder concent. do i agree with his holdingshares thing no? but even he has picked up and walked away from the drama even if he had to take a rep. hit to do it and has not even fought with anyone over it to try to be very adult about it, he let people say what they wanted, and that was that. that was a big price to pay i think for doing it, but people did not dump his asset. i held off on claiming my shares of gsdpt until recently to see how things turned out, and honestly, the only thing I coudl say about bitfunder in the mean time is that while I was not happy to setup with weexchange at first, it's actually pretty nice and very happy with it. i had a simple question, nothing urgent and posted a support ticket on bitfunder and had a response pretty quickly. the irc was nice to be able to just join for a few minutes and talk to people about things. and during all the drama.. all I saw on bitfunder, was focused growth. not only was it adding features people had requested, but i noticed that they were also adding features that were being requested of btct as they were being requested, and even without the drama, never made a big thing about out. things like the the dividend reinvest, and listing if the assets can increase shares on their own, or move with or without votes. I finally made my decision. it was pretty clear. i have quite a few share of sdice via gsdpt, erik is a great guy and very respectable. I have no problems paying terra for all the time and effort he is putting in to make sure i got my shares and dividends that was not an expected party of his duties and now balancing books for two exchanges. he has a proven track record as being someone trustworthy. i would rather pay a little to know I am in good hands, then go with some unknown or pay a bunch of money to trade on a place that has a few stocks and possibly higher chance of insulting me then helping me if i say the worng thing. also I am a buyer. i dont generally sell unles its a great deal. with bitfunder, i have paid almost nothiing to buy thousands of shares to earn divs off of since i only have to pay if and when i sell. I love the price being lower on bitfunder, I have bought quite a few shares at excellent price, it just adds as another reason why i have enjoyed it since. and i can actually say that for once in a long time now i have enjoyed playing with btc and assets again. interactive graphs are fun to zoom in and get details, the data tables are nice and dont just cut off with limits or span the entire page with all of my history. why are the shares so cheap? it could be any number of the things listed above. terras cut, bitfunder ppl selling off,dont think so because its more buys than sells,so it is not ppl who do not like bitfunder. i dont care, its a good and more fair price to me. also the best thing is that if ihave enough shares and wanted to go direct to mpex i think terra would doa transfer for me at no cost. isnt that the point? buy low in bulk, sell high in bulk, win!

A simple explanation could be that the BF PT is made out of people who bought at 32-34 entirely, whereas the HL PT is made out of people who bought at 37+ entirely. These significantly divergent populations would then unsurprisingly behave differently: the first are taking profits, the others are sitting on their purchase. Due to the cash flow differences this brings (because buyers are just as likely to flow into either PT "naturally" as sellers are likely to want to sell "naturally", leaving the effect described above unaccounted) the prices would diverge. It is, I guess, a sign of the inefficiency of the PT market that nobody is arbitraging this divergence into convergence, but then again this is a much more quaint sign than the fact that some of the original GLBSE PT shares sold for as high as 70 back in August.

I think GSDPT has ~7k shares total on btct.co right now.


Yeah, there was some confusion as to how to claim shares on btct.co, where you had to go to bitfunder, claim the shares, then request they actually go to btct.co.  I think we'll probably see another GSDPT import here before too long.

I guess it's because the asset claim page both for btct and bitfunder is on bitfunder. So everyone who wanted to liquidate quickly just stayed on bitfunder and drove the price down.

Thanks Ian. Based on my casual observation, it seems as though there are a lot more trades occurring on Bitfunder than BTC.CO at the moment. Am I wrong about that?

Thanks guys, that makes a lot of sense, I'll bet you're right on most counts there. It will be an interesting one to watch, that's for sure. Especially if S.Dice itself stays where it is, or goes up.

Think #3 here is the big one.  Some of the owners of the shares on Bitfunder are funds that are closing down and have to sell their assets.  Others will be people who want to sell and only now have the chance.  Havelock doesn't have people who wanted to get out of owning the shares - so there's no supply to compete with that being issued by the asset owner.

And #1 is also a significant factor.  If you only get 95% of dividends and have no means of converting to the 'real' shares then it's hard to justify a price over 95% of the MPEx price (if some clear means of converting was provided then arguably price should be very near to 100% of MPEx - depending on what it cost to convert).

At the moment, I see BitFunder's at 600k shares while Havelock is at 3k shares, representing 300k shares at MPEX. Keep in mind that Havelock's IPO was just released about a week ago while BitFunder was there a lot longer. I think BitFunder was a carry over of [GLBSE] Pass through right when S.Dice shares were first being offered. Further, I think a lot of people haven't seen Havelock yet or discovered its trading platform.

There are a couple factors at work here:

1: You get less dividends from a pass-through than for the real thing. Since you only get 95% of the dividend (pass-through operator gets the other 5%), it makes sense that the price should average about 5% lower.

2: Bitfunder is relatively new, for people to buy shares they have to set up an account and fund it.

3: All the people who bought using GLBSE have been stuck with no way out for several months. If one bought shares before GLBSE disappeared, and wanted to sell for whatever reason, they were stuck. The passthrough recently opened up on Bitfunder, and so all those people itching to sell have built up a large sell pressure, pushing down the price. This factor will go away slowly as those people looking to exit sell their shares and the price will stabilize close to the MPEx price.

Right, they are packaged in 100 share groups for .48, what I meant was basically that they are backed up by an equal amount of shares on Mpex.



Okay interesting, so the suggestion is that Bitfunder is not as demonstrably legit as Havelock, and not as user friendly. Although, I could be wrong, but I think right now Bitfunder does substantially more volume than Havelock, so that would seem to indicate that some people are comfortable tradiong there.

The shares at Havelock are 0.48 each, representing 100 shares bunch. They are not 1-1.

As for BitFunder SDice, I assume people bought them in smaller quantities and the dividends were smaller so it's hard to feel the money and they wanted to move on. I believe MPex put in the steep fee for 30 BTC to deter such frivolous investors. As for Havelock, the investment platform is so much more pleasing to the eye, the trades are free, and the proprietor is provably legit that it's worth buying the bundled up shares for.

I would be greatly thankful if one or more of the really smart people who post huge amounts of useful information here would take the time to explain something to me. Why is the Satoshi Dice asset on Bitfunder.com trading at a significantly lower rate than the SDice shares on Mpex, or similar pass throughs?

S. Dice on Mpex is trading around 0.0047 - 0.0048 BTC. Havelock Investments released what appears to me to be a nearly identical S.Dice pass through (backed up 1 to 1 with shares on Mpex, 95% dividend payout)... those shares sold at 0.0048 seemingly as fast as they could issue them, and are still trading at that rate. Yet the SDice asset on Bitfunder has been selling for around 0.0041 - 0.0044 per share.

If anyone has any incite into this, please share it with me. I searched the forum and other places before posting this, but I couldn't anything that explained this price discrepancy.

Is there something wrong with the platform, or the issuer? Something else I'm missing that makes this asset less valuable than the others? Or is it currently just a real good deal, that I should keep buying until it climes to around 0.0047 - 0.0048?


Just to be clear, this is the fund I'm talking about: https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.SDICE


Thanks in advance to anyone who takes time in an attempt to enlighten me.