Why people are blaming MtGox issues for the price fall?

XXthetimeisnowXX

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a wolf in sheeps clothing. suckerfish

Quote from: caveden on April 12, 2013, 07:21:59 AM

Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 05:18:04 AM

Of course the big bitcoin dump affected the price, but the 1 hour lag, that caused MOST OF THE PANIC, is simply unacceptable.

If it's only a panic caused by such lag, then why haven't the price recovered so far?

It makes no sense to claim that the demand for Bitcoin is a function of MtGox health or competence. Either people want to hold bitcoins or they don't, and that has nothing to do with the efficiency of MtGox. (and if there are people whose decision to hold or sell bitcoins is influenced by MtGox health, then sorry, but these people should not have bought any bitcoin at all - and it's still not MtGox fault that they sold out, but their own)

It's not MtGox that makes the price, it's the people that buy and sell. That should not be hard to understand.

ya but if you could not touch your money for hours/days/weeks you dont know with gox than are you going to put more money in that place? doubt it. it was a bubble in the first place and gox made it worse. like at first there were a few price drops, price rebounded nicely, big rally, then gox laged bad way bad people freaked and then pulled more money out. down went the price.

you cant sit there and tell me they had nothing to do with it. NY stock exchange has some glitch that makes every server that works for it and everything about it go out. your telling me when the lights come back on that people wont sell at least some....then more and more cus they see the price fall. same concepts hunny buns.

full disclosure i never have and i never will use gox.

cheers.

m3ta

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Quote from: samson on April 12, 2013, 02:20:29 AM

This happened because the idiots who run MtGox failed to act when they should have.
They had an exponential rise in new customers along with existing performance problems.
These problems required an urgent fix, there wasn't enough sense of urgency about it.
Hence MtGox failed and made the problem much worse than it could have been if they fixed it quicker.

In Soviet Russia, MtGox runs you.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: niko on April 12, 2013, 08:57:59 AM

Quote from: cbeast on April 12, 2013, 08:39:22 AM

Quote from: niko on April 12, 2013, 08:31:06 AM

I agree with caveden 100%. Also, this:

Quote from: Vandroiy on April 12, 2013, 03:46:53 AM

Gox did not cause the crash last time either. The initial crash even happened before any problems back then.

Not a cool story? Right! That's why people tend to change the order of history when they tell it. They also don't tell that after the hack, prices remained stable for weeks and the bust started for no apparent reason.

What we learn from that: bad speculators make losses; really bad speculators make losses and nonsensical explanations for them.

I 100% disagree with this. The charts show that every day for nearly a week there was a small price correction at about the same time period. This occurred with the lag. The correction was exacerbated by the lag more and more every day until it broke. This correction is a vote of no confidence in mtgox. Since there are no other useful exchanges that can handle any volume, we must wait until someone steps up and can handle the demand. Meanwhile, Bitcoin's public image takes a serious setback.

Would you please point out exactly the corrections you are referring to? Here is the chart:

Thanks. I don't have a chart drawing tool, but look at between 9-11 AM ET. You see peaks for the entire day. On the 6th it is small but still there. By the 10th, the growth was too much and it crashed just shortly before because experienced traders knew the lag was coming.

Wuji

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Quote from: Rygon on April 12, 2013, 08:23:00 AM

Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 05:18:04 AM

The simplest option - If their servers can't take it, STOP accepting new users untill they can.

Totally agree. I can't believe they are against doing this.

Like most things it seems greed is hellbent to destory BTC. Not just greed from the speculators but greed from Mt. Gox as well. Angry

Mt. Gox will never make another penny off me.

Cluster2k

legendary

Activity: 1692

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The main problem here is we still have people who saw the exponential growth in price and the inevitable bursting of the bubble claim it's all someone else's fault. It's MtGox. It's the manipulators. It's (insert person/entity here).

How about looking at the basic facts that you can't expect anything to rise so far, so fast, without real world consequences. There is no "it's different this time." People time and time again fail to learn from history. That's why there's someone at the other end of the trade waiting to make money from them.

spartacusrex

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Merit: 545

Quote

Quote from: spartacusrex on Today at 01:53:56 PM
AND - AGAIN - A site that has made MILLIONS $$ can at least make sure it is run right.

GOX doesn't do that.

That's irrelevant to this topic. I'm not arguing whether their service is good or bad.

It is not irrelevant.

You're asking - 'Why people are blaming Gox ?'

People - yes normal everyday humans - associate GOX with Bitcoins. Whether they should or not. Supply/Demand blah blah .. They do.

When GOX provides a low grade shit service, it reflects on Bitcoin. Whether it should or not. Supply/Demand blah blah.. It does.

The price was due a correction, I totally agree, but GOX 'exasperated' the situation with it's dreadful handling.

Of course not using them is the only solution that anyone has, as I choose not to use them, but to NOT tell the public that GOX are MORONS, and to steer clear, seems silly.. it'll just happen all over again. (Not the price crash, the dreadful handling of a bad situation coupled with a horrible smell that's left behind..)

This is not a blame game / troll session. I just want people to know that I think GOX handled the situation very badly - and preferably, not to use them.

The choice, as always, is yours..

I won't say anymore now. That's it. Thanks for listening.

caveden

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Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 08:53:56 AM

To suggest that GOX (as the Largest exchange) is not INTRICATELY and PSYCHOLOGICALLY involved in Bitcoin's price, is frankly, RIDICULOUS.

There's no reason for them to be. Bitcoin remains the same thing even if MtGox disappears tomorrow.
People who bought and sold did on their own. It was their actions that set the price downwards, not MtGox.

Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 08:53:56 AM

AND - AGAIN - A site that has made MILLIONS $$ can at least make sure it is run right.

GOX doesn't do that.

That's irrelevant to this topic. I'm not arguing whether their service is good or bad.

Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 08:53:56 AM

By all means - keep using them! Cheesy

.. I think this is known as the stockholm syndrome.

I, for one, don't use them. I just find it ridiculous to claim that they "set" the price. The price of everything is set by supply and demand, nothing else.
EDIT: And btw, that's how you should express your disagreement with some service provider: just don't use it! Don't cry all over the place with capital letters and make lame accusations, as if MtGox had an obligation in providing you the service you'd like to receive. They have no obligation whatsoever. Not happy with them? Don't use it. Or make a better alternative yourself. Just stop saying bullshit (like blaming them for the price, seriously..)

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 501

There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: cbeast on April 12, 2013, 08:39:22 AM

Quote from: niko on April 12, 2013, 08:31:06 AM

I agree with caveden 100%. Also, this:

Quote from: Vandroiy on April 12, 2013, 03:46:53 AM

Gox did not cause the crash last time either. The initial crash even happened before any problems back then.

Not a cool story? Right! That's why people tend to change the order of history when they tell it. They also don't tell that after the hack, prices remained stable for weeks and the bust started for no apparent reason.

What we learn from that: bad speculators make losses; really bad speculators make losses and nonsensical explanations for them.

I 100% disagree with this. The charts show that every day for nearly a week there was a small price correction at about the same time period. This occurred with the lag. The correction was exacerbated by the lag more and more every day until it broke. This correction is a vote of no confidence in mtgox. Since there are no other useful exchanges that can handle any volume, we must wait until someone steps up and can handle the demand. Meanwhile, Bitcoin's public image takes a serious setback.

Would you please point out exactly the corrections you are referring to? Here is the chart:

spartacusrex

hero member

Activity: 718

Merit: 545

??

Quote

It's not MtGox that makes the price, it's the people that buy and sell. That should not be hard to understand.

To suggest that GOX (as the Largest exchange) is not INTRICATELY and PSYCHOLOGICALLY involved in Bitcoin's price, is frankly, RIDICULOUS.

AND - AGAIN - A site that has made MILLIONS $$ can at least make sure it is run right.

GOX doesn't do that.

By all means - keep using them! Cheesy

.. I think this is known as the stockholm syndrome.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: niko on April 12, 2013, 08:31:06 AM

I agree with caveden 100%. Also, this:

Quote from: Vandroiy on April 12, 2013, 03:46:53 AM

Gox did not cause the crash last time either. The initial crash even happened before any problems back then.

Not a cool story? Right! That's why people tend to change the order of history when they tell it. They also don't tell that after the hack, prices remained stable for weeks and the bust started for no apparent reason.

What we learn from that: bad speculators make losses; really bad speculators make losses and nonsensical explanations for them.

I 100% disagree with this. The charts show that every day for nearly a week there was a small price correction at about the same time period. This occurred with the lag. The correction was exacerbated by the lag more and more every day until it broke. This correction is a vote of no confidence in mtgox. Since there are no other useful exchanges that can handle any volume, we must wait until someone steps up and can handle the demand. Meanwhile, Bitcoin's public image takes a serious setback.

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 501

There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

I agree with caveden 100%. Also, this:

Quote from: Vandroiy on April 12, 2013, 03:46:53 AM

Gox did not cause the crash last time either. The initial crash even happened before any problems back then.

Not a cool story? Right! That's why people tend to change the order of history when they tell it. They also don't tell that after the hack, prices remained stable for weeks and the bust started for no apparent reason.

What we learn from that: bad speculators make losses; really bad speculators make losses and nonsensical explanations for them.

Rygon

hero member

Activity: 520

Merit: 500

Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 05:18:04 AM

The simplest option - If their servers can't take it, STOP accepting new users untill they can.

Totally agree. I can't believe they are against doing this.

writhe

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 0

Quote from: caveden on April 12, 2013, 07:42:20 AM

Criticize MtGox as much as you want, I don't care. But please wake up to the fact that they do not set the price. Bitcoiners "set" the price, collectively, by buying and selling.

If MtGox handles 80% (or whatever) of the trades that define the value of Bitcoin then yes, they set the price.

FreddyFender

full member

Activity: 215

Merit: 100

Shamantastic!

Quote from: caveden on April 12, 2013, 07:21:59 AM

Quote from: spartacusrex on April 12, 2013, 05:18:04 AM

Of course the big bitcoin dump affected the price, but the 1 hour lag, that caused MOST OF THE PANIC, is simply unacceptable.

If it's only a panic caused by such lag, then why haven't the price recovered so far?

It makes no sense to claim that the demand for Bitcoin is a function of MtGox health or competence. Either people want to hold bitcoins or they don't, and that has nothing to do with the efficiency of MtGox. (and if there are people whose decision to hold or sell bitcoins is influenced by MtGox health, then sorry, but these people should not have bought any bitcoin at all - and it's still not MtGox fault that they sold out, but their own)

It's not MtGox that makes the price, it's the people that buy and sell. That should not be hard to understand.

This is nothing new, what happens next is the blame game. We have seen this unfold over and over again. Its intent is not level headed investigation -troll parades/vitriolic accusations/impugned wrongs.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

If your local currency suddenly lost 75% of its value and you could not afford to buy food, would you believe that it was your fault for owning currency? Would you go to the gold store daily to acquire your needed currency? The volatility problem (yes problem) is caused by the fact that even Wall Street knows you don't let just anyone have full access to unrestricted trading. Placing brokers between the users and exchanges is the smart thing to do. If a broker starts lagging, then switch brokers. You can have many brokers to choose from for each exchange.

quantsig

newbie

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Quote from: vdragon on April 12, 2013, 07:31:16 AM

And how abouts bots on gox

? thousands of orders at 0.01 and 0.02

That sure looks an awful lot like quote stuffing to me.

caveden

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 12, 2013, 07:24:40 AM

Because they haven't proven that they have really fixed anything. DDOS protection doesn't work, lag still exists, support doesn't answer questions fast enough (seriously that would go a long way to slow panic, lighting fast support response) no phone number to call.

Are we still talking about Bitcoin or you've switched to MtGox stocks without warning me?

Seriously... the ability of MtGox to operate should not, by any reasonable, rational analysis, influence in the viability of Bitcoin as an investment - and I'm not even talking as a currency, only as an investment.
If hypothetically so many BTC holders are influenced in their decision to hold or sell by things like MtGox lag or lack of support, then it just shows they have no idea about Bitcoin in the first place, and should probably not be investing in it. And if so many people bought without having any idea of what they were doing, then it was just a matter of time for it to collapse, in spite of MtGox very existence.

Criticize MtGox as much as you want, I don't care. But please wake up to the fact that they do not set the price. Bitcoiners "set" the price, collectively, by buying and selling.

vdragon

full member

Activity: 196

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And how abouts bots on gox

? thousands of orders at 0.01 and 0.02

Wuji