Topic: Why people debate so much about BTC value? - page 4. (Read 1155 times)

First of all, you must understand the motivation. The motivation of people saying similar things. As a rule, people always talk about what they lack.
People discussing the price of bitcoin in the format of unfulfilled hopes and expectations speak for themselves, they do not have enough money. So for them, bitcoin is not bitcoin but its purchasing power.

Everyone watches the price, if they didn't get any advance idea through the users in the forum, they might not be able to sell at the right time and that's when you see you need to follow more of that Wall Observer thread. The users in the thread has pretty much knowledge that I don't have actually. Debate if good, this is just a forum board I'm sure we don't hurt each other's feelings just by all the criticism of someone you don't really knew.

I can accept criticism to look into myself whether I'm actually wrong to my speculation or not. If wrong then I guess I'm not the go to guy when asked about prices. 

Yep, debating in a healthy way is just the same as the TV shows or news without giving any negative comments. But critics is also a part of it and that's the time we can see different ideas about the value of Bitcoin. Since the volatility of Bitcoin is quite unpredictable it's normal to see such speculation of the price everywhere.

Whatever your sentiment is, once someone treats bitcoin mostly as an investment, its fiat value will always be a big deal. Therefore they care for whatever scenario that can happen to bitcoin either pump, dump or something along those lines.

Remember that these "investors" used their cold cash to purchase BTC for investment purposes. Here, it is obvious that their goal is to have a decent profit in return even just by holding. That's why it called investment after all.

We will just see Bitcoin work as a pure currency, at least, in the next 20 to 30 years (just figures). Why? As long as there are lots of positive hopes about the bitcoin's good future, including the possibility of establishing a "moon price", people will mostly treat this supposed pure currency as an investment.

Bitcoin replacing USD or other fiat currencies someday will not happen***.

Its a healthy debate anyway and its good to see people asking and that if you are a newbie in trading you can get a feel of where the price could go to trade. The wall observer thread really deserves to be watched, you might wanna go and subscribe to that thread too in case you don't wanna see people expressing their idea about the value of BTC.

Yeah it's true that everyone has their own opinions, but I don't think you can digest well what @OP says. All right, the question is actually not why are those people arguing? but what @OP means is what are these people arguing for? indeed everyone has their own opinions, but we need to know like what is said @OP that BTC is not made to compete with the USD or other fiat. The BTC referred to as @OP is an independent BTC without having to be compared with fiat, BTC is BTC because BTC has a supply, unlike fiat which is always printed and its value always changes when the numbers increase.

Some people still think Bitcoin is a means to get quick rich. They don't really know what Bitcoin really is. Everyone wants to get profit at sort time. And when the price for the sort term goes down a bit, they make negative comments against Bitcoin. Even again they start panic sell! Bitcoin's original believers do not worry about Bitcoin price. Those who argue about the price, who dream of becoming rich overnight with Bitcoin. They don't have the thing called patience.

Only get debate with bitcoin during have higher price but when bitcoin back down they run away and we never see anymore about some one debate with bitcoin price, I think is not have to worry when many people have their self predicting about bitcoin price and they look very trust with their prediction price, but I keep believe and analyze by my self with bitcoin price.

In my opinion, the value isn't always about USD, but more on what we can buy or do something with Bitcoin. Like, if the price is $6K and we can just buy one thing then when the price is $12k, we can buy two things. Why wouldn't I hope the price is $12k?

Basically, people understand that one bitcoin worth of one bitcoin but that's gonna be useless if we don't use it (to pay, buy, or speculate) and that's why people are debating.

That's because people still see it as an investment plan to getting rich quickly other than a currency for paying goods and services. Also, i hear OP saying that bitcoin should not be compared to the US dollar and we should see it as such. This cannot be as bitcoin came to meet existing currencies and they only way we can use it as a payment method is to pair it with other cryptocurrencies. We can only see it as such if we have a universal conversion of BTC rate against the US dollar and this would also not be possible because of the decentralized nature of bitcoin.

Everyone in this market wants to get profit quickly. But I don't understand why they have to argue about Bitcoin price every day, such arguments do not make the price of bitcoin go up. Prices can rise and fall depending on the situation of the market, what we are interested in is how to get the most profit with it.

Indeed,  they are just expressing themselves on how they interpret the chart movement.  Ang TA have different method that differs from one another.  That is the reason why other insights differ from the other one.  Aside from that, others look at BTC as worthless because they do not believe in its community and function, we should leave them as that, it is their lives that will miss out if they do not believe in the value of Bitcoin just like Peter Schiff.

where you see people arguing about the price of bitcoin, is it only in your mind, everyone has freedom of opinion sometimes every opinion is not always the same, that's what is called a difference, just look at how the difference is in this forum, by the way why do you say 1 bitcoin is equated with $ 2, do you know that dollars continue to be printed without gold backups and their money continues to be printed but bitcoin is not in limited supply, that's the difference even I think one day 1 BTC = 1 Lambo might be more interesting 

Bitcoin is valued when it is converted into the value of the widely used and popular currency by USD, if BTC is valuable by BTC then we cannot compare the value when there is no legal currency to convert. USD is the easiest way to use the most appropriate exchange and pricing.BTC is pumped because the market is not large enough and is dominated by many BTC holders so it is normal to pump.

Bitcoin’s origins come from a long time ago, many years before Satoshi. Crypto anarchists as Tim May, John Gilmore or Eric Hughes forseen the need of a form of private money which could not be controlled by the govern, which should offer people liberty on the free market. Bitcoin’s backgrounds laid on anarchism, not on greed and profits. Also, on setting people free from govern’s oppression.
Satoshi managed to resolve what many others debated and tried before him, like Wei Dai, Adam Back or Nick Szabo. But he didn’t have in mind to list Bitcoin to exchanges, nor to make people rich. Just free from the governs, banks and any other middle-man. Unfortunately, many prefer to be rich instead of free.
He didn’t think to offer a certain price in USD to Bitcoin upon creating it, just to make all the efforts in order for his creation to be widely used.

Let’s remember some of Satoshi’s words.
“What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party”.

“The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone. This is similar to the level of information released by stock exchanges, where the time and size of individual trades, the "tape", is made public, but without telling who the parties were”.

“I've been working on a new electronic cash system that's fully peer-to-peer, with no trusted third party.
We very, very much need such a system.
For transferable proof of work tokens to have value, they must have
monetary value.  To have monetary value, they must be transferred within
a very large network - for example a file trading network akin to
bittorrent”.

“ The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust. Banks must be trusted to hold our money and transfer it electronically, but they lend it out in waves of credit bubbles with barely a fraction in reserve. We have to trust them with our privacy, trust them not to let identity thieves drain our accounts
With e-currency based on cryptographic proof, without the need to trust a third party middleman, money can be secure and transactions effortless. ”.

Satoshi never said literally that he want to change entirelly the fiat money, but this is what it would lead to if Bitcoin would have been used as he created it. He wanted to help people to not be oppressed anymore by governs, by banks and by any other middle-men. To give people privacy and anonymity. To offer a way thus governs couldn’t track anymore every financial transaction. To not pay taxes and fees to middle-men. To transact directly, peer-to-peer, without paying huge fees, as it happens (for example), if you send money in different countries / continents from your bank account or from Western Union. To help all the unbanked population.


Actually there are some seeing Bitcoin as a cult, but only a few, unfortunately – check nullius’ topic The Nullian Bitcult. To be honest, I’d love to hear his oppinion as well.


And this is what Satoshi tried to change, by offering his creation, for free, to the people. All they had to do was to use it as intended: peer-to-peer transactions on the free market, rendering the govern as irrelevant as it could not control them. Sadly, people did not understand that and many still don’t... And the below quote illustrates very well:

If it has crushed USD then why we still have value of bitcoin in USD? Bitcoin is still very new to financial world and has yet to establish it's own value or worth. Right now USD and other fiat are the leader as we are dependent on them for our daily living.

I agree to your stand point however, for people a piece of Btc does value upon on its market which price which happen to be in currency value. Besides they are competing whether will it pump, dump for them to validate their stand point with others. In addition, you cannot totally buy something out of bitcoin though there are few who accepts it as a payment but majority aren't thus, people ain't living with btc itself but on how much it values in currency.

Yes the main cause because the price of goods is currently determined by the FIAT currency. Unless all prices of goods have been determined in BTC units, the story may be different.
Does anyone dare to price in BTC units? I am sure only 10% of people will say YES, the rest will think first because they also need to exchange BTC to FIAT to meet their daily needs.
The current adoption of bitcoin is not yet maximal, but at least there has been good progress compared to previous years.

Well, the topic is mainly based on the value of BTC which is the intrinsic value of it that will not need USD for it to rely on. But for me, this is quite impossible, as most of the people today is already utilizing fiats, it is merely impossible for crypto or bitcoin in exact, to be used as people look for the vakue of bitcoin mainly based from USD, if that is to happen, mainly right from the start people should already promote using BTC with its value depending on BTC itself.

And I hope that is just how easy to explain it to everyone but it is not.

When it comes to looking at how valuable something is it should be more popular. That is the case we are seeing now with the world.
Not the rarity of one item anymore or even with demands.
Just the popularity. (I guess we could blame the social media with it.)

We are talking versus the USD here which is like the very known currency of the world which a lot of people also want to get their hands on.
I can see that in my country because of the higher exchange of every USD.
Bitcoin though is still not seen much. In time though, we can compare it again.