Why premined altcoins are considered scam-coin? - page 2.

bathrobehero

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ICO? Not even once.

Quote from: ArticMine on June 10, 2016, 10:11:59 PM

Quote from: bathrobehero on June 10, 2016, 10:08:51 PM

...

You do realize it's not 2012 anymore, right? CPU mining is long dead.

This is news to me. I have found blocks using a CPU in 2016.

Sure, but CPU mining is irrelevant next to GPU and ASIC mining.

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 11:55:25 PM

You try to negate the reality.

1) It's a FACT that few people can get access to ultra-powerful hash miners
Most of people CANNOT invest tons of money in superminer for speculation, I have a high end home PC pretty expensive and if I compare ,u hashrate to top miners of most popular pools its power i light years distant not even in the same universe.

2) The concept of miners contribute to the currency has sense when the hash power is proportional to the blockchains needs, if there is overmining speculation becames a way to grab as much coins as possible. This concept is very easy to understand. There is monstrous power used in most popular coins mining for few transactions. So say that is only a meritocratic reward is bullshit, It's a gredy game for who has most power.

3) Is for you is fair that few richest people that can affort mining cloud controls most of the money, you have to consider fair also that original developers control most of the coins. To me fairness means a proportional distribution among people... According to you isn't clear what means and what is the "merit concept".

Fair means everybody can mine it not that everybody gets the same amount. What you're talking about is socialism.

You basically have an issue with everyone who invests more than you do while you could invest as much money as you have and become a superminer yourself.

gustav

hero member

Activity: 602

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Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 11:55:25 PM

You try to negate the reality.

1) It's a FACT that few people can get access to ultra-powerful hash miners
Most of people CANNOT invest tons of money in superminer for speculation, I have a high end home PC pretty expensive and if I compare ,u hashrate to top miners of most popular pools its power i light years distant not even in the same universe.

2) The concept of miners contribute to the currency has sense when the hash power is proportional to the blockchains needs, if there is overmining speculation becames a way to grab as much coins as possible. This concept is very easy to understand. There is monstrous power used in most popular coins mining for few transactions. So say that is only a meritocratic reward is bullshit, It's a gredy game for who has most power.

3) Is for you is fair that few richest people that can affort mining cloud controls most of the money, you have to consider fair also that original developers control most of the coins. To me fairness means a proportional distribution among people... According to you isn't clear what means and what is the "merit concept".

Can you tell me why the next person should pay money for a coin that you got for free? Is that fair for the person that buys that coin from you later? Please explain.

AndreaF

jr. member

Activity: 59

Merit: 10

Quote from: bathrobehero on June 10, 2016, 10:08:51 PM

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 05:36:14 PM

If I start to annunce the currency as public and put all these premined coins in a reserve wallet that cannot be used by me but is used by a service where each user can get freely a fixed amount of these coins. This would be way more fair than let all the monetary base to strongest miners and there are tons of technological way to avoid that developers or greedy people can scam other users using multiple account getting more coins that allowed.

You are completely out of touch with crypto.

Every single free distribution model can be (and is being) exploited and that is a fact. This is why we have a such a difficult and safe way of creating new coins called proof of work.

And as I said earlier, there's no such thing as all coins going to superminers. Every element of the market gets just as much coins as they invest in either electricity and mining time or BTC (buying on exchange).
There's no "few powerful miners controlling all", everyone has a fair chance to buy mining equipment and use it. You're argument is like saying some people have more money to invest so crypto is unfair.
In essence, your superminer argument is short sighted and even childish.

Quote from: reRaise on June 10, 2016, 06:05:02 PM

if u knew how many pow coins are scams, only the tehcnology matters. some miners are pissed they cant instamine with botnets anymore thats all.

You do realize it's not 2012 anymore, right? CPU mining is long dead.

You try to negate the reality.

1) It's a FACT that few people can get access to ultra-powerful hash miners
Most of people CANNOT invest tons of money in superminer for speculation, I have a high end home PC pretty expensive and if I compare ,u hashrate to top miners of most popular pools its power i light years distant not even in the same universe.

2) The concept of miners contribute to the currency has sense when the hash power is proportional to the blockchains needs, if there is overmining speculation becames a way to grab as much coins as possible. This concept is very easy to understand. There is monstrous power used in most popular coins mining for few transactions. So say that is only a meritocratic reward is bullshit, It's a gredy game for who has most power.

3) Is for you is fair that few richest people that can affort mining cloud controls most of the money, you have to consider fair also that original developers control most of the coins. To me fairness means a proportional distribution among people... According to you isn't clear what means and what is the "merit concept".

WaffleMaster

hero member

Activity: 966

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Quote from: gustav on June 10, 2016, 11:29:57 PM

Not even close to the biggest scam. Just the most bold one in the aftermath.
I think the biggest proven scam so far was paycoin with his 150 million marketcap, right?

Also several potential scamcoins are still on high value on CMC.

Well, yes I was monitoring Paycoin every step of the way. I almost actually got into it as an investment funny enough. As for the profits I'm sure they made off with more than 167 Bitcoin but we can't really know for sure. The marketcap can be 1 trillion for all I care and if nobody is buying it in volume that market cap means nothing lol

gustav

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Merit: 500

Quote from: WaffleMaster on June 10, 2016, 11:19:32 PM

Quote from: gustav on June 10, 2016, 08:51:51 PM

He scammed 167btc with a presale on that coin, then posted pictures of him spending the money. That one was pricelss. lol

LOL yes this is the meme picture that was posted by the scammer with a big red 167 Bitcoin below it. So priceless Grin

one of the biggest scams in the history on here I think!

Not even close to the biggest scam. Just the most bold one in the aftermath.
I think the biggest proven scam so far was paycoin with his 150 million marketcap, right?

Also several potential scamcoins are still on high value on CMC.

WaffleMaster

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 546

Quote from: gustav on June 10, 2016, 08:51:51 PM

He scammed 167btc with a presale on that coin, then posted pictures of him spending the money. That one was pricelss. lol

LOL yes this is the meme picture that was posted by the scammer with a big red 167 Bitcoin below it. So priceless Grin

one of the biggest scams in the history on here I think!

gustav

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: MicroGuy on June 10, 2016, 10:45:47 PM

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 12:25:00 PM

I have noticed that the community pay much attention to the fact a coin is premined but i haven't clearly understand the reason why this is necessarly evil.

Satoshi Nakamoto premined over 1,000,000 bitcoins, but you'll NEVER read that on Coindesk. lol

The value (pure and simple) of any cryptocurrency is in its network effect. Focus on network effect and forget about these silly notions.

~~

btc wasn't premined. It was just stealthlaunched and ninjamined on very low difficulty.

MicroGuy

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Twitter @realmicroguy

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 12:25:00 PM

I have noticed that the community pay much attention to the fact a coin is premined but i haven't clearly understand the reason why this is necessarly evil.

Satoshi Nakamoto premined over 1,000,000 bitcoins, but you'll NEVER read that on Coindesk. lol

The value (pure and simple) of any cryptocurrency is in its network effect. Focus on network effect and forget about these silly notions.

~~

ArticMine

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Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: bathrobehero on June 10, 2016, 10:08:51 PM

...

You do realize it's not 2012 anymore, right? CPU mining is long dead.

This is news to me. I have found blocks using a CPU in 2016.

bathrobehero

legendary

Activity: 2002

Merit: 1051

ICO? Not even once.

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 05:36:14 PM

If I start to annunce the currency as public and put all these premined coins in a reserve wallet that cannot be used by me but is used by a service where each user can get freely a fixed amount of these coins. This would be way more fair than let all the monetary base to strongest miners and there are tons of technological way to avoid that developers or greedy people can scam other users using multiple account getting more coins that allowed.

You are completely out of touch with crypto.

Every single free distribution model can be (and is being) exploited and that is a fact. This is why we have a such a difficult and safe way of creating new coins called proof of work.

And as I said earlier, there's no such thing as all coins going to superminers. Every element of the market gets just as much coins as they invest in either electricity and mining time or BTC (buying on exchange).
There's no "few powerful miners controlling all", everyone has a fair chance to buy mining equipment and use it. You're argument is like saying some people have more money to invest so crypto is unfair.
In essence, your superminer argument is short sighted and even childish.

Quote from: reRaise on June 10, 2016, 06:05:02 PM

if u knew how many pow coins are scams, only the tehcnology matters. some miners are pissed they cant instamine with botnets anymore thats all.

You do realize it's not 2012 anymore, right? CPU mining is long dead.

Sniper44

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 501

because of thee dangers they are having!
when you invest in an altcoin the only thing that you care about is the profit and the future that it goes up in a pump.
but when there is a huge premine like eth or many other coins there is always a big risk that the premine owners will dump their coins on the market to get out and crash the price again like eth

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 03:56:11 PM

...

With all the respect but FinCEN can kiss my ass. Cryptocurrencies don't need government bullshit of any sort but a fair system that can work to exchange services and commodities at service of people in the real world.

Which is a perfectly valid reason to avoid a pre-mine, and the government entanglements it brings.

Cyaren

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Because the founders will be pretty much in control of the market, and when they decide to get out of the coin, the market will crash and therefore the coin is dead and nobody will ever use it.

Especially the coins which adds nothing to the crypto scene. They are the shittiest of the shitcoins.

gustav

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He scammed 167btc with a presale on that coin, then posted pictures of him spending the money. That one was pricelss. lol

Dajackal

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Quote from: WaffleMaster on June 10, 2016, 08:01:28 PM

Quote from: Dajackal on June 10, 2016, 07:58:38 PM

there is no such monster as a scam coin. People call them scams because they have no patience and cant wait to see how the coin develops.

There are definitely coins made just for the sole purpose of the devs to offload as much as possible on people and then ditch the coin...ICO scams used to be a big problem but now generally escrow is the only way to do an ICO because of all the scammers Wink

. There is some meme of one guy getting BTC60 and then laughing at all the people he scammed with his fake coin.

That meme is priceless. Ive seen it say way more then 60 btc. Back in the day that dude made his rounds on many a thread.

WaffleMaster

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Activity: 966

Merit: 546

Quote from: Dajackal on June 10, 2016, 07:58:38 PM

there is no such monster as a scam coin. People call them scams because they have no patience and cant wait to see how the coin develops.

There are definitely coins made just for the sole purpose of the devs to offload as much as possible on people and then ditch the coin...ICO scams used to be a big problem but now generally escrow is the only way to do an ICO because of all the scammers Wink

. There is some meme of one guy getting BTC60 and then laughing at all the people he scammed with his fake coin.

Dajackal

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

there is no such monster as a scam coin. People call them scams because they have no patience and cant wait to see how the coin develops.

AndreaF

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Merit: 10

Quote from: WaffleMaster on June 10, 2016, 07:41:30 PM

Do you see the issue with the devs having mined hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coin before it has any difficulty? Basically it seems like they just want to make up a magic currency, get all of it or a majority to themselves and then let the users pay for it from them. It's a monopoly essentially.

that is right, but if you have followed the whole discussion I want to highlight another issues that damage the fairness of the cryptocurrencies, that isn't the premine itself but unfair distribution that there is for both premined and not-premined cryptocurrencies if aren't adopted others policies

Quote from: gustav on June 10, 2016, 06:52:08 PM

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 06:46:21 PM

As I have said there are tons of way to prevent same people claims coins more times using the blockchain, way more ways than you have to avoid few powerfull rich people grab the biggest slice of monetary base with unruled mining.

You really are new here. Make some research. There were all kinds of distribution mechanisms, i have really seen a lot. I watched at least 600 or more coins launch. I do know.
Read my lips: you. can. not. prevent. multi-claim.

And sure as hell, you're a socialist.

Also there is no such thing as "unruled mining" as all mining is ruled by code.

You are proposing a centralized trustbased method instead of using a decentralized trustless method just because you envy the miner for his rig that you don't have. lol

Rent your hash then.

further edit: also if you would launch a coin why would you waste moneysupply on air? Coins are the reward for securing the chain. A premine does not produce any security. By creating moneysupply out of thin air you take away future security of the chain but that's probably too much for you to wrap the head around.

If mining is fair for all the miners and the competition amongst them is real, then pow-distribution is superior to all other methods and i'm happy to buy from the miners in these circumstances all day.

You think fairness means you get something for nothing.
I think fairness is equal opportunity and when someone gets something for nothing someone else gets nothing for something.

I have already said why leave the mining capability enterely dependent on hashpower without additional rule to prevent unfair distribution cannot grant any fairness.
Cryptocurrencies should be a more fair alternative to bank controlled money.... if all the money are controlled by few big guys the cryptocurrencies became same shit as other regular currencies and also worst.

The only thing that give value to cryptocurrencies is the trust, more fair is its their distribution higher will be their value.

And just to be clear I'm not a socialist I'm an anarc-darwinist. Everyone must be set in the same position at the start and gain wealth and power with his own abilities not because of inherited wealth and initial benefits of his position. Wink

WaffleMaster

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Activity: 966

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Do you see the issue with the devs having mined hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coin before it has any difficulty? Basically it seems like they just want to make up a magic currency, get all of it or a majority to themselves and then let the users pay for it from them. It's a monopoly essentially.

gustav

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: AndreaF on June 10, 2016, 06:46:21 PM

As I have said there are tons of way to prevent same people claims coins more times using the blockchain, way more ways than you have to avoid few powerfull rich people grab the biggest slice of monetary base with unruled mining.

You really are new here. Make some research. There were all kinds of distribution mechanisms, i have really seen a lot. I watched at least 600 or more coins launch. I do know.
Read my lips: you. can. not. prevent. multi-claim.

And sure as hell, you're a socialist.

Also there is no such thing as "unruled mining" as all mining is ruled by code.

You are proposing a centralized trustbased method instead of using a decentralized trustless method just because you envy the miner for his rig that you don't have. lol

Rent your hash then.

further edit: also if you would launch a coin why would you waste moneysupply on air? Coins are the reward for securing the chain. A premine does not produce any security. By creating moneysupply out of thin air you take away future security of the chain but that's probably too much for you to wrap the head around.

If mining is fair for all the miners and the competition amongst them is real, then pow-distribution is superior to all other methods and i'm happy to buy from the miners in these circumstances all day.

You think fairness means you get something for nothing.
I think fairness is equal opportunity and when someone gets something for nothing someone else gets nothing for something.

Topic: Why premined altcoins are considered scam-coin? - page 2. (Read 4490 times)