Why pruned node is full node ? - page 2.

Wind_FURY

legendary

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: gmaxwell on March 01, 2020, 11:42:25 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

(even though i don't know when the idea of pruned node is shared/discussed for first time).

Bitcoin whitepaper, section 7 "Reclaiming Disk Space".

I clearly forget Bitcoin whitepaper, but how about discussion about it's implementation on Bitcoin Core? AFAIK pruned node on Bitcoin Core works differently from Bitcoin whitepaper

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 02, 2020, 12:55:17 AM

Quote from: gmaxwell on March 01, 2020, 04:47:19 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Because there's no single definition of full node that majority agree

There is an unambiguous definition, which has been well established since at least 2011 with no one disagreeing for years.

It's only since the rise of dishonest ethereum pumpers which have nodes that do not validate the history and, instead, blindly trust miners up to a day before like SPV wallets intentionally creating confusion about Bitcoin's security model in order to fraudulently imply equivalence, that I've seen confusion on this circulate.

For newbies.

They call them "light-nodes", which they describe as nodes that are "still part of the network", but in truth only act as like an SPV, and are NOT part of the network. They don't check, and relay blocks.

SPV (whether it's Bitcoin or Ethereum) still perform some kind of check/verification

BUT, this is a very important point, SPVs ARE NOT part of the network. The don't verify transactions/blocks if valid/follow the rules, and the don't relay transactions/blocks after verified as valid/follows the rules.

BrewMaster

legendary

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: ?? on ??

SPV (whether it's Bitcoin or Ethereum) still perform some kind of check/verification

i don't think there is any SPV ethereum clients. the ethereum nodes are somewhere between SPV and full node, a better term to describe them would be "half assed nodes" since they only download and verify a very tiny portion of the blockchain (about 1%) whereas in a SPV client you download the entire blockchain headers and merkle trees and verify them. for example Electrum clients currently store 619,838 block headers that is equal to the same number of block headers. they don't even do that in an etherum node, the history could be anything and they as a "half assed node" would never know it.

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: gmaxwell on March 01, 2020, 04:47:19 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Because there's no single definition of full node that majority agree

There is an unambiguous definition, which has been well established since at least 2011 with no one disagreeing for years.

It's only since the rise of dishonest ethereum pumpers which have nodes that do not validate the history and, instead, blindly trust miners up to a day before like SPV wallets intentionally creating confusion about Bitcoin's security model in order to fraudulently imply equivalence, that I've seen confusion on this circulate.

For newbies.

They call them "light-nodes", which they describe as nodes that are "still part of the network", but in truth only act as like an SPV, and are NOT part of the network. They don't check, and relay blocks.

gmaxwell

staff

Activity: 4242

Merit: 8672

Quote from: ?? on ??

(even though i don't know when the idea of pruned node is shared/discussed for first time).

Bitcoin whitepaper, section 7 "Reclaiming Disk Space".

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: ?? on ??

Full Non-Mining Nodes fully record and relay all Transactions meeting code specifications from the Genesis Block.

Pruned Nodes record and relay transactions meeting code specifications from recent blocks only.

A full node is a fully-validating node. Pruned nodes qualify because they download and validate every block and transaction going back to the genesis block.

The subset of full nodes that stores all past data and uploads old blocks to the network are called archival nodes.

Quote

A subset of full nodes also accept incoming connections and upload old blocks to other peers on the network. This happens if the software is run with -listen=1 as is default. Contrary to some popular misconceptions, being an archival node is not necessary to being a full node. If a user's bandwidth is constrained then they can use -listen=0, if their disk space is constrained they can use pruning, all the while still being a fully-validating node that enforces bitcoin's consensus rules and contributing to bitcoin's overall security.

gmaxwell

staff

Activity: 4242

Merit: 8672

Quote from: ?? on ??

Because there's no single definition of full node that majority agree

There is an unambiguous definition, which has been well established since at least 2011 with no one disagreeing for years.

It's only since the rise of dishonest ethereum pumpers which have nodes that do not validate the history and, instead, blindly trust miners up to a day before like SPV wallets intentionally creating confusion about Bitcoin's security model in order to fraudulently imply equivalence, that I've seen confusion on this circulate.

gmaxwell

staff

Activity: 4242

Merit: 8672

The term full node has an unambiguous definition since its first usage in the earliest days of Bitcoin: it means that the node fully verifies and enforces the rules of the network on its own without trusting third parties (such as miners). The term was introduced in contrast to spv or lite nodes which do not fully validate the data they receive and instead blindly trust miners.

ranochigo

legendary

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Merit: 4418

Crypto Swap Exchange

The term is used mostly with ambiguity. Most commonly, as long as a client can independently verify the chain, they are termed as full node. SPV client requests the block headers of the blockchain from the full node. The block header itself contains the merkle root for the SPV to compute and validate transactions.

Pruned nodes can't provide the full history for the SPV client and wouldn't be useful if the client inquires for block headers beyond its current block file buffers. Thus, they implemented a flag (~~BIP157~~ BIP 159) in the node's advertisement to tell the peers that they would not be very useful as they're pruned. The SPV node would then have to connect to a node with a full blockchain if they require older block headers.

maplelake

jr. member

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Merit: 8

We set prune param if it runs on limited-power PC.
Since some blk file is deleted, why it is also FULL node ?
What If some SPV wallet inquire tx in its "deleted" blk? Pruned node cannot answer it...

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